Not a very happy story, I'm afraid..

[9600]

Hang in there 9600....you have some heavy hitters providing advice to you on your thread. Listen to them...read their advice again....it's some of the best you'll get.

Did you read the 5 Love Languages yet? That really helped me see things different...I would definitely pick that one up after DR.

Thanks -- I really do appreciate the advice.

Our counselor gave us a short version of the 5 love languages and asked us to each read it by our next session. I have read the web site and done the quiz there so I gave the book to W so she could read it first. Not sure when our next counseling session is even going to be because W is in the process of rearranging her schedule around her school and 2 jobs.

9600

I'd still use the word "neglected" b/c if she was intimidated BECAUSE she's afraid you'll ignore her if she enters...what does that tell you?

You keep saying her complaints are from the past and that you have, in effect fixed all your flaws but then you say "no I have stuff to work on."

So what is it? Why'd you say you were not fun to be with for her? What makes you believe she thinks that? Be specific about things you regret. The more concrete you are, the more concrete your changes will be.

What have you DONE to change the neglectful image she has of you?

And what else? Did she say you have a temper, are controlling, boring, mean, or whatever else?

Also, can you stop focussing on what you cannot do, and instead look at what you CAN do to change the image you send her.

To contrast the negatives she has/had, with positives.

Any ideas?

I was critical, controlling, defensive, did not take criticism well and my sarcasm came off as hurtful. One of the things we discussed in counseling on Tuesday was that we would argue, and I would think we'd resolved things, but W would apparently just agree for the sake of ending the argument. Then she would hold on to that resentment.

Here's a common situation we had. We'd decide to go out to a movie. She would want to see the latest romantic comedy, of course, and I would want to see the latest science fiction pic. We'd decide instead to see an action movie, because neither of us wanted to see the movie the other one wanted. I was OK with this; I mean, she had girlfriends that she could see the romantic comedies with. And I have guy friends that I could see the sci fi movies with. What I learned recently is that she was NOT fine with this; she wanted more give and take. She wanted to see the rom com with me, not her girlfriends. She never brought it up, we never really argued about it, but she felt like I controlled the whole situation. This wasn't an "all or nothing" thing either, certainly I've seen my fair share of chick flicks and she's seen her fair share of aliens.

That's a fairly trivial example of the dynamic we had. Of course I didn't *mean* to be controlling, but she says I was, and I can't argue with the way she felt/feels. So, I accept that I do have a problem with being overbearing in a conflict. I don't really know how to get better at something like that without being actually in a conflict and making the decision to back off a bit.

What have I done to change the neglectful image she has of me? Hmm.. Good question. I set up our office so that she has a table in there to do her scrapbooking. My idea was that we could work on our own hobbies together, in the same room. She hasn't touched the desk at all, even though she thought it was a good idea when I proposed it. I think we got the desk in April and started having problems in May, so maybe it was too little, too late.

I've also asked her to interrupt me, to tell me when she gets home if I'm off doing something. I drop what I'm doing if she comes into the room. I don't really know how else to demonstrate how important she is to me. Lately, I haven't even entered the man cave, I try to just be up and available when I know she'll be home. Doing dishes or laundry or something. Either that, or I follow the last resort technique of just not being home so she has a chance to wonder what I'm doing rather than seeing me do the same old thing.

As far as me not being fun to be with... I don't know, that's just the impression I get from her. I know I don't drink to the excesses that I used to. I don't think it's very cool to drive drunk anymore. She, on the other hand, has been acting like she just turned 21 recently, driving home trashed, etc.

I've never been a big dancer, and she loves to dance. We did dance lessons right when we first got married, but I felt uncomfortable the whole time, and we dropped them after our package ran out. I've offered to take that up again with her, but she doesn't have time right now and won't make time, given how she's feeling. We were in ballroom lessons. She likes the trashy club/bump and grind type dancing, too -- it's not like there's lessons for that that I could pursue on my own. I've thought about just going to some clubs, but I would have to go by myself and I'm not entirely comfortable with that. Would feel too much like hitting on other women.

So, here's what I've been doing.. I'm sort of mishmashing the last resort technique with some personal 180s to really appear to be doing something different.

• I am not on the couch, in the basement, in the office or garage when she gets home from work. I am either doing work around the house, out of the house or getting ready for bed. Trying to avoid the perception that I am "tuned out."
• I don't pursue at every opportunity, but I do try to ask how her day was, what she is doing, etc. I keep the conversation focused on her. It is somewhat trivial, but I know I need to practice listening (and asking how she *feels* about things rather than the nuts and bolts of what exactly happened during the day). Sometimes she talks, sometimes she doesn't. I try walk a middle ground between pursuit and cutting her off. I feel like cutting her off is part of what got us where we were.
• Other than the light conversation, I've been following the 37 rules pretty closely. When "the change" started happening a few months ago, I got more and more upset that she wasn't telling me where she was or what she was doing. I've dropped all that anxiety. I don't ask where she was, what she was doing. If she talks about it I'll just say, "hope you had a good time." This is new in the last 2-3 weeks (took a while to sink in, I'm a little thick that way sometimes).
• Been exercising a lot, riding my bicycle to work, and working on my appearance a bit. Lost 7 pounds so far.
• One of the hardest things for me has been to NOT be so goal-oriented. I have a propensity to just put my head down and work and work until I achieve something. I think this is a quality that works well for me in my professional life but hurts me in my social/married life. So I've cut down on what I want to "achieve" this year and I make time for relaxing, watching TV and catching up with friends. I don't know that this is something she would notice or not, but I do feel more relaxed and less driven.
• I've been reading a lot by Pema Chodron, and some other relationship books. No More Mr. Nice Guy, Married Man's Sex Life Primer, I Love You, But I'm Not In Love With You, and DR and DB. Trying to understand the dynamic that got me where I am. I've always been a big reader so this isn't much of a 180 and I haven't even told her that I'm reading these books, but they have been helpful to me for my outlook on things.

At our last counseling appointment, one of the things that she has specifically complained about is that I'm not "flirty" enough. I don't know what to do about that one. To me, you flirt with someone you don't know, ask them questions, tease them, send dirty texts, etc. All that stuff falls flat on my W right now. I try to be lighthearted when we're together, but I don't really get how you're supposed to flirt with someone you already know pretty well and has categorically denied having sex for the foreseeable future. To me flirting is getting to know the other person.

Also at our last counseling appointment, the counselor said that really the goal of our controlled separation was to get back together, and if we were both on the same page with that. I said my goal was to work on myself and the relationship. W said her goal was to work on herself. Just remembered that this morning. Bummer.