I repost the following from Wikipedia regarding Humility, in relationship to Buddhist thinking and under the education caveat:
"In Buddhism, humility is equivalent to a concern of how to be liberated from the sufferings of life and the vexations of the human mind. The ultimate aim is to achieve a state of enlightenment through meditation and other spiritual practices. Humility can also result from achieving the liberation of Nirvana. When one experiences the ultimate Emptiness (Shunyata) and non-self (Anatta), one is free from suffering, vexations, and all illusions of self-deception. Humility, compassion, and wisdom characterize this state of enlightenment."
It is unfortunately us who suffer in the death of a loved one.
It is unfortunately you, zig, who is suffering from being concerned about your S meeting OW.
You have been through this before. Your S may or may not be traumatized by meeting OW.
This remains about you, zig. It's neither good nor bad. It is about attempting to control an outcome which you perceive to be negative for your s.
Yes, therapists will suggest that it is not good for a child to be introduced to an OP too early in a R.
The harm though... you CAN support your S in figuring out how to get through it... the harm would more likely be between your S and your H... OR... between you and your S IF you choose to make a big deal out of it, your S decides he likes OW, and sees you as the enemy... because you do NOT like OW...
i was confused about the humility - and waited. and you added more...
you're right - you're standing back form this sitch and can see when i circle around again.
what round am i on? 5 , 6? I lost count...
but you were watching out for me, weren't you?
thanks. I feel a lot more humble now.
i was so fired up - that i couldn't see what i was building up in my mind about being right about this.
and yes - everyone around me - family, friends, therapist - all appalled and demanding that I do something about it.
I've said my piece to h, yesterday when he asked.
He knows how I feel. he'll make his decision...
Yes, I could have the conversation with him, it may work. I will feel it out - if the opportunity is given to me...
for now - acceptance that this is where i'm at... and it's okay.
This remains about you, zig. It's neither good nor bad. It is about attempting to control an outcome which you perceive to be negative for your s.
Yes, this remains about me - not what h is doing or what will happen to s, only how i am carrying this and could possibly continue to carry it.
instead of focusing on what may or may not happen with this scenario - I need to focus and dig deep and find out why this still makes me crazy.
otoh - i still find myself thinking - what is my role as parent and protector of my child - does this not fall within that role?
In all of this, i think i am still trying to figure out how to approach this - what makes me a good mother to our s? where is the line drawn, when his father - by general consensus is confused and acting from a confused state.
am i trying to fix - what he cannot right now?
maybe that is the issue here really - me trying to fix through the back door what h is doing - and that i do not want to do.
i will sit with this more...
KD - what can i say?
you know...
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Zena - I've been reading along today but not really sure what to add right now.
But this really jumped out at me - do you really want to give up the opportunity to celebrate with your friend on her 50th birthday? I'm kind of concerned that you would NOT go on the chance that your H would bring OW. I get why you don't want to be around OW - but - where does you supporting your friend fall into this? You can't get her 50th birthday party back.
More food for thought for you tonight, you've got a lot on your plate, I know
I don't regret my fight to keep her away, but in the long run, when I look back, there was a point I should have not let every ounce of energy be sucked into that mission, because it wasn't one I could win in the long run.
gabbysmom - thank you so much for coming to tell me about your experience.
what you wrote above - thank you for your perspective from a place way down the road from where i am at now.
i am learning - with humility - that there are others much wiser than me who can help me to see my way through this.
As far as when the time is right for your S to meet OW.... well, you can try to have that conversation, but..... in reality, his final decision on when to introduce S to OW is his choice
I realize fully that it is his choice.
the conversation - after i finished venting here, was to be about establishing what he really means by saying that we should talk together and make decisions together about everything to do with s.
to possibly point out that from where i am standing, it doesn't look like that is happening and if that is how he wishes to proceed, then i just want to be clear about it.
there's an old pattern here - a very strong one from both of us -
h waits until the very last moment to announce stuff so that there is no time to disagree or change anything - one is left with no choice, in a way.
i tend to not say anything because i can see there's a problem but don't know who to approach him with it,, because when i do he dismisses it as unimportant.
subsequently we both go ahead and do whatever we feel like, without any regard for the other person's feelings on this matter.
he's quite bitter about that last statement , you know - tells me often that i just went ahead and did whatever i wanted. from his pov i didn't really discuss it with him, from my pov i would but it was like he didn't hear me
but the pattern here that's arisen is the first one - he's, for once, feeling out, or telling me what he may/may not do. so there's a very slight difference here - he's said something, but still acting like he's going to give me the info at the very last minute
so what can i do different here? i want to break these patterns - i have always wanted to from the beginning.
do i stay "humble" and let the pattern continue?
do i take this as an opportunity to break away from the old one -at a timely moment - us just beginning the dialogue of how we are going to parent in the future through and after a D?
i realized that what i was venting earlier - was venting - and that i was going to wait until i was really calm and grounded about this before even thinking of calling h to meet and talk. that in the state i am now - it would be a disaster.
so if you have any thoughts about what i have written - i would love to hear them.:)
thanks again - i really appreciate you following my sitch and giving me your insight on this.
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
vera - this friend - we were quite close friends and he sometimes worked for me and loved what i did. we spent some wonderful times together working on h's kilns - actually crazy all-nighters where we worked our butts off to the point of death to keep h's kiln going
after h told them - about a month after BD - they can barely look me in the face. they seem very embarrassed, and he and his wife have barely spoken to me in a year. i think i can count on one hand the number of interactions i've had with them
i was really hurt for the first 6 months - until i realized that maybe they felt really bad and didn't know what to do.
one of the things he loved was my mom's cooking - i mean really loved - and when i came back from visiting my parents in march, i had brought a bunch of indian special desserts back. on a whim, i decided to offer an olive branch, so to speak, and dropped by and gave them to him. he was delighted but was also very pained - extremely pained. i left the ball in their court.
they never took it up - they were at s's b'day party - actually they are our only friends that have never missed any of his b'days. and when they had a s 2 years ago, he became the stay at home dad - and would drop by 2 o3 times a week with the baby and hang out with me. i made their s's b'day cake every year.
so i was very very sad to lose the connection - and when that invitation arrived day before yesterday - i was so pleased. i never expected to get one. i had given up on expecting anything from them
it could be that they sent it out of courtesy, it could be that they really want me to come. it could be neither. it could be they know that ow will be there, or not.
don't forget - i've been acting so happy - they may assume that i am fine with her presence. it 's possible h may have told them that..
who knows.
but do i want to celebrate his b'day - sure, but do i need to with someone who has not called me once in an entire year and has hung out with ow.
don't get me wrong - i am not resentful about that towards friend - h put him in that position ...
do i want to be at a party where h and ow are, possibly with s.
s is very excited about this party - this friend is like s's hero! how do i explain to s that i can't be there? he knows i love friend
i've got a lot on my plate.
yes - but who served it to me? did i serve it to myself?
that, is definitely food for thought...
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Zig, if you wish to get a bigger gun, that is OK. I will support you.
shite KD - when you write stuff like that - I KNOW somethings up.
okay, i do believe i'm getting a bit overwhelmed by this whole sitch - which is a damned good sign that i haven't figured out what to do.
i'm more than happy to let it go - completely -but what's making me hesitate here?
the following -
if i let it go, am i doing more of the same? (don't forget - through the whole marriage i told myself let it go, there's no point)
this is NOT with intention to "preserve" the relationship. this is with intention to figure out where i stand as a parent for s.
my IC asked me a very interesting question today. she said - you are obviously the leader in this relationship and more so now when you are DB'ing. when you are divorced what will you do with that role? what are you going to lead when there is no relationship to lead within.
wonder if there is a connection here?
am i trying to lead? trying to lead us down the path of better parenting?
my answer to her rather cockily i must admit, was I'll lead myself, i'll lead my own life..
what the hell did i mean by that?
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
back to the double bind - it's been so long, it's going to take me a while to go search for those posts and reread what you wrote about it.
i can't quite remember the details of how it works to apply here.
i am... beginning to loose the resistance.
and each time i do there is almost a helplessness about it before the acceptance comes...
how am i still in this place - i thought i had moved so far from it already
The best leaders... are those who support others in their own greatness...
my first thought - i have to find the greatness in h so i can support it?
i don't see any right now
or am i missing the point?
i've been trying to teach, haven't I?
what DOES it mean to lead...
oh where's that Turtle Humility - she so needs to visit me right now - and bring a 2 x 4 with her - or do i have one on hand that i can use on myself??
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
- that there are others much wiser than me who can help me to see my way through this.