Well last night's call was another 'good' one. W and I talked for a little over an hour, which was great seeing that she was getting over a terrible migraine from earlier in the day.
As usual, the majority of the conversation was her catching me up on the things going on in her life: her job hunt, fantasy football, etc.
We spent about 20 minutes going through, step by step, the open enrollment process for health insurance. This was the only negative part of the conversation... She brought up the fact that she was uncomfortable with me paying for her health insurance, but as soon as she got a job I could take her off... I told her I wasn't so sure it would be that easy, and she pointed out the "Life Changes" section and said "See it lets you take me off for life changes like having a baby, legal separation and divorce"
So although she wasn't bringing it up as a request, it was the first time I'd heard her say either of those words or phrases, and the first time I heard her say that those might be in the future... But In all honesty, it's a stretch to get overly worked up about this, so I'm not!
As before, I had a goal list in mind about this conversation, and I'm proud to say that I was able to tick off just about every box. The one thing I had a problem with was keeping the conversation on her.
Now it wasn't at all from lack of trying. She'd got me all caught up on the latest happenings but still didn't seem to want to get off the phone... so she began asking me about what was going on in my life. The first time she asked, I said "a bunch actually, but tell me about XYZ".. So she went into that for a bit, but as soon as she was done, it was back to "So what's going on with you?"
I tried to stay vague, telling her I have a bunch of new job opportunities, doing a bunch of freelance writing, and taking the dog out on "puppy play-dates". I feel I went into a little bit too much detail, especially about the job/raise situation, but I didn't want to be rude and not answer her direct questions.
When she asked What I was doing this weekend, I WAS able to stay very vague, as I told her it was all up in the air as I was trying to figure out which plan I wanted to follow...
Once again, we ended on a good note, with her thanking me for chatting and me doing the same. I texted her a few minutes later, as is the ritual, telling her I'd received the confirmation email from our Insurance that she'd done everything right, saying it was nice to hear from her and i'm glad that she's doing so well.
Then, again as is tradition, the sadness crept in... I spent some time analyzing the conversation, wondering what this phrase or that word meant...
Then I remembered what a waste of time that kinda stuff is, so I texted a few friends to see if anyone was available for a chat that late on a Friday night. Thankfully, a few friends were available and I spent another hour or so chatting with them, doing a little venting over missing W and the like...
Fell asleep on the couch watching TV and woke up too early with that sad/empty feeling that accompanies these good conversations. But it doesn't seem to be quite as bad as usual... So I hope it'll fade quickly.
I initiated contact a couple times last week, and I won't be doing that again for a while. The good part about that is I'm not doing it to try to get a reaction out of her, like I used to. Instead, I just need some time to not worry about when/how/if she'll respond... Need to keep focusing on Me and bettering myself... Need to get out and GAL a little this weekend (although i'm pretty broke, so that might be tough!)
So while I WANT so badly to send her another email, another text, give her a call to see how she's feeling today (as the days after a migraine for her are never too good either) I know I need to pull back more and detach... not to try to pull her closer, but to keep my sanity in tact and continue to detach...
There are no more pressing issues that we need to deal with like the health-insurance thing... so there are no excuses for either of us to contact the other except to "catch up"... So it's time to get back to my goals full-force and stop wondering what she's doing, thinking, feeling, when she'll call etc. Time to work on being the best me I can be... but damn I still want to call her so bad!
Don't do it!!! Sounds like you did well on the phone call. don't go and ruin this. She seemed to be curious about your life. Let her be even more curious.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm TOTALLY NOT going to call her or reach out in any way for at least a couple weeks... I've completed this portion of my "experiment" of reaching out... now it's time to lay back and observe not only W's actions and reactions, but my own.
I'm unfortunately stuck in my house this weekend, after a very expensive trip to the vet with my little boy (Gambit, an 11 month old mutt who keeps me sane every day)... Which isn't ideal with this sense of melancholy creeping in now and again... but I'm sure i'll power through it.
And I'm sure I won't be ruining my hard work by backsliding and reaching out to WAW... Got to keep remembering that NOTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE sometimes...
Marathon, not Sprint Can't Control Her Actions Don't Mind Read Keep a PMA
I'm pretty proud of me today. (A little self-gloss never hurt anyone right?). Over the weekend, I feel I was able to correct the post-conversation with W slump quicker than I had previously... But it didn't look like I would be able to at first!
Saturday morning, I woke up and decided that it was time to get the puppy back to the vet for his vaccines and to check on a couple issues he's having. Well a couple hundred dollars later, I walked out with a soon-to-be healthy puppy but any plans for the weekend dashed... These unexpected expenses crush my budget.
So I was worried that with my new plans to just hang out at the house that I'd be in for some introspection and a bit of sadness... And while there was SOME of that, for the most part, I was able to keep my PMA... Watched a ton of movies, hung around on this board, did some fantasy football research, caught up with friends on the phone and got some writing done...
Sunday I hung out with my brother and niece at a local park with the puppy, grabbed some lunch and spent the rest of the day getting the house into tip-top shape. The W texted early Sunday morning asking what was wrong with "our baby" (puppy), as she'd seen my update on Twitter, and I filled her in. She responded, asking me to keep her updated, that she knows he's "in good hands" and wishing me a happy Sunday.
I SOMEHOW was able to NOT respond to that part of the text... Normally I would have thanked her for her words, wished her a happy Sunday as well, and might have snuck something in about how the "kids" miss her too... But I said nothing!
So I feel pretty good about being able to pull back after our talk on Friday, not responding to EVERY text she sends, and trying to continue detaching as best as I can...
Good to hear Alkaline- I do the same by not responding to all the texts and if I do respond I wait a couple hours and overanalyze the few words I am using to respond, it’s pathetic. The detach thing I might do with a little bit of overkill especially from W’s perspective. I am not detached but I think my W feels I have. How does the term go, fake it till you make it.
I can’t believe your talking with your W that much. Over an hour? I am not saying that’s a bad thing or a good thing, I just don’t know. Do what works right? In an effort to be diplomatic I can see both sides. Hell yeah, I would like to have a good conversation with my W at the same time it might make me miss her more. With my luck the next day W would decides to be a total b!tch and then I would regret the fact that I gave her that time.
I can’t mess up by saying the wrong words if I don’t communicate with W. I also want to make my W miss me and I feel by not talking with her for more than a couple minutes she “might” miss me more. I also think it’s a good idea to make her “wonder” what I am doing and even if she talks most of the time I am sure some of what I am up to would come out in the conversation.
Nice work and stay strong. You are doing a great job Alkaline.
Thanks Rough. I hear what you're saying about the long phone conversations... While they do DEFINITELY make me miss her more, I still enjoy the conversations... And I have a hard time seeing how they're doing much harm... But if anyone has a differing opinion I'd love to hear it.
And as for detaching... It's so damn tough, and I'm certainly not there yet, but I actually feel like, sometimes at least, I'm getting there...ever so slowly!
The roller coaster continues! This time with no direct input or actions from W, just my brain working overtime.
Yesterday technically was an amazing day for me. At least professionally. I found out that I was just approved for a HUGE raise at work (20% increase in salary!). For a few hours, I was on top of the world. Finally, after years of struggling with $, having to cancel plans constantly due to lack of $, being unable to vacation etc. I am finally making enough to live comfortably.
But all that good news brought about other, not-so-good thoughts. I realized yet another reason (at least a suspected reason) that W struggled in our relationship. Although I almost never asked W to spend less on the things she wanted and would constantly try to get all the little material things that she wanted, that spending always tapped me out to the point that the vacations that we talked about taking always had to be pushed off... A lot of broken "promises" due to the lack of good income... She mentioned quite a few times that although we made big plans... like finally taking our honeymoon, that she never thought they'd happen...
Yet now, I'm in a position that YES, they can happen... however it may be too late.
It also put me into a bit of a rut knowing that I had no one to celebrate this great news with. An image flashed into my mind of coming home to W and letting her know about the raise, her smiling brightly and us finally beginning to plan in earnest for our honeymoon early next year.
Instead, I came home to an empty house, as I have for months now, and only had my dog and cat to "celebrate" with. Sure I called my family to let them know, but there was a huge absence felt all night.
This led to more introspection and over-analyzing of the situation... thoughts about how our conversations have gone lately, realization that in the beginning of our seperation she told me she missed me and loved me, but I haven't heard those words or sentiments in a while... wondering if she's made her decision to move on and is waiting for the perfect time to tell me (or waiting until she has the money to file), wondering if the fact that she's so sweet to me is because of this decision... still wondering if her move to central Florida is her way of testing my dedication and resolve (as she's mentioned in the past on more than a few occasions)...
So these thoughts invaded my mind for much of the night... and now writing them down will hopefully help me to snap out of it. And i'm sure the good people of this board will help as well.
Today's Mantras:
Just because there's no huge signs of forward progress doesn't mean it's not happening.
I can't change her mind any more than I can read it.
I need to keep focusing hard on detaching.
No matter how much I want to, I can't initiate contact.
I still have hope to keep me going through these tough times.
I'm a pretty great person that anyone would be luck to be with, and W knows that... even if she doesn't think she deserves it...
Today, my mental mindset and PMA will be better than yesterday
Only a few months after she moved down to south Florida, she began to express her unhappiness with the area. She wasn't making any friends and dearly missed her friends in central Florida. Unfortunately, I brushed off these feelings as temporary, explaining she needed some time to adjust and make some new friends.
I am taking this is her first time ever moving away from central Florida? Usually it is at about 6 to 18 months that this happens. Takes time to work through. What you said to her was true. But she said her complaints with out offering any solutions. The words were fix this. Perhaps they should have been can you help me through this any suggestions. And you two could have joined clubs ... etc....
Originally Posted By: AlkalineThoughts
As she had a hard time finding a job, I was able to get her a job at the company I worked for (Small company with just 4 employees, one of which is my older brother). She took the job, and suddenly we were together 24 hours a day, every day.
That was very good of you and your brother to get her this job in such a difficult economic time.
Originally Posted By: AlkalineThoughts
In February of this year, I had the feeling that something was terribly off, but my wife has always been a very internal person, keeping her feelings to herself, especially if they are feelings that she knows would hurt me (as I tend to be hypersensitive at times). However, this feeling of dread got the best of me and I snooped through her cell phone. BIG mistake. I found some emails and pictures that she'd sent to an ex, and I was devastated.
No. You had thoughts that something was not right with the relationship. That she was hiding something and not giving her share to the marriage. So instead of going off the handle and accusing her of your thoughts. You verified and then confronted her on her poor boundaries with the ex boyfriend.
Originally Posted By: AlkalineThoughts
Back to the story: I confronted her about the emails (which stated that she was planning on moving back to central Florida and our marriage would depend on if I went too) and picture and it blew up. During that conversation, she told me we'd been finished for a long time, that she wasn't happy at all and thought there was too much damage to ever repair.
Typical rewrite of history to match the current poor boundaries and her choice to go sleep with another man.
Originally Posted By: AlkalineThoughts
I immediately started seeing an IC, as did she. I quickly started doing some 180s: She complained that I was too clingy and touchy-feely, always having to touch her whenever she'd walk by, and my therapist suggested I stop... And it worked wonders! She started IC and things started to seem like they were getting better quickly.
I will come back to this. As there is some importance here. And something that you and the IC missed.
Originally Posted By: AlkalineThoughts
A month later, she left for a visit to central Florida for the weekend, and when she returned, she told me she wanted to have a talk. During that conversation, she told me that although the last month of our relationship was the best we'd ever had, she was still so unhappy and couldn't stand to be in south Florida with me anymore. She told me she needed to find her independence, find out who she was, and think about things. I begged an pleaded, but her mind was made up. A few weeks later (May 2012) she packed up her car and left.
This is typical.... Rewrite. She had her hook up or set it up.
So now she packed her bags and left to find her independence in the city she knows surrounded by familiar friends, family , buildings and EX. Her words of independence = affair. They are that plain and simple.
Independence was something she was experiencing when she moved to Miami. She could have made some different choices for some free time. Such as joining a running club with other women, taking night school , art classes, volunteering and getting a part time job. The list is endless. Then she could have offered the other solution of heading up the turn pike to Mouseville every other weekend. That way you would be given the opportunity to get to know her family and friends.
I know I know. Honest suggestions and solutions to her problem. But I think the real problem was that she was not acting like she was involved in a marriage so she reached out to the old boyfriend and saw he was game.
And around this time she was complaining about not finding work. But how active was she looking? And you worked and offered a solution to her problem.
So with that problem resolved..... She switched it to were spending too much time together. Yet offered no solutions about getting some hobbies or studies or sports to gain some independence.
See its horsehockey.
Look at it this way.
She quit a job in a small company that you and your brother work at after being there for a short while. No doubt this looks bad. Because it is. She just quit and left. After complaining that she could not find any jobs.
Does she have a job in CF ? How is she paying for her life there ? I hope the words are not "I am giving her money"
She said she wanted independence. Yes it was independence to break her vows. Nothing more nothing less.
She complained that you are too affectionate. I am guessing that you are always like this. So this is something she decided was fine when she married you as I am guessing it was not an issue before the marriage. She told you that your primary love language [censored] and she wants you to change it or else.
Do you see the issue here. It should have you been saying. Wife. I hear what your saying on always touching you. But this is how I like to express my love and desire for you. For it is important for me to make sure you know this. It helps with our marriage when I can freely express my primary love language to you. So I would like you to work with me on this as it is good for the marriage and I will work with you on your primary love language and show my love for you that way as well.
Do you see what I am saying here.
HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = YOU CHANGE SOLUTION
HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = EA/PA
VS.
HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.
HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE AND OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.
HER PROBLEM = SHE WORKS TO RESOLVE HER ISSUE
MY PROBLEM = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.
MY PROBLEM = I WORKS TO RESOLVE MY ISSUE
It's like what she is saying now.
You did not fight to make me stay.
How could you? It is a statement with only one outcome. You lose.
If you did fight to make her stay. She would have been complaining that she needs independence , you too controlling , always around... opps..... Oh yea thats right she did this already.
How do you think she would have liked it if you said a very truthful statement to her.
Wife you are always complaining about everything to me. Yet you never offer any solutions and just expect me to change. This is not how I envision our marriage to work. I am not here to fix all your issues. Work with you and support you yes.
What do you think she would have said to that?
I think you better not make the mistake of following your cheating wife to CF.
Stay with your job and learn to gain some confidence. I would pick up a sport or a hobby where you will regain your self esteem.
You see. You are living in Fl. So you need to think this long term. As you know about life long alimony.
This is the path you are setting up.
You are 18 months into your marriage.
This current behaviour will most likely go on for at least a year or two while she knows you are there waiting for her.
So that puts you at 4 years.
Then she comes back to work on it ( I mean work on you to change to her liking ) And not 100% committed to the marriage This takes 2 to 5 years.
So your at 6 to 9 years.
Then out of the blue you get the talk.
You limbo for a few years.
Then D and its payments for life.
But you do have some other choices as well.
You have the choice to say D. Move on. Which is an option here based on her actions and poor choices.
If it was me I would follow the next option.
You continue to work on yourself. Build your self esteem. Be honest with your brother on why your wife quit her job and moved back to the mouse. His support will help you through these tough times. Especially when your work slides. He can call you out on it and support you on it.
Really think about the woman you married. Not how you envision she is. How she really is. Her strengths and flaws. You know she is the person to drop everything , hurt you to the core , sleep with another man , and then when you confront she will say it was your fault. You know she complains about everything. You know she does not take ownership for her issues. You know she is not honest with you and will string you along. Then she expects you to wait it out and then win her heart back ( Change to her liking ) These are part of who she is. You need to wrap your head around this. And truly decide if this is something you can live with and overcome.
But to do that means strong boundaries. So you need to learn them. They need to be communicated.
You need to learn to communicate your issues with solutions offered. If you have no solution then you need to work on and resolve your issue.
The line above was a real 180. That will make you a better man.
You need to learn that expressing your love languages to your wife was an appropriate thing to do. You need to be comfortable with who you are and how you express love. You need to teach and learn to improve your love ( NOT NOW.... LATER ) This is a real 180.
You need to realize that your wife dumped you and your family. That it is absolutely absurd for you to be chasing her , when she left you to try another guy out for awhile.
You see you are not doing a 180/LRT because you have not taken the time to address your problems.
You are always available when she calls. You answer her hook R talks. Some are set up to justify her poor choices. Some are set up to determine if your still hanging around in limbo.
Trust me on this. You are doing nothing to push her to the OM. That is all her choices.
He made me do that with being needy... or he made me do that because he did not answer my email.
Same outcome. You had nothing to do with it.
This is how your wife thinks.
If I was you. I would stop with any money payments to her if they are happening.
I would work on communication issues with the IC and work on solutions to rebuild your self esteem and why you felt it was necessary to not have a voice in your marriage. And why the IC feels that this is an appropriate response to being cheated on.
Next R talk about fighting for her to stay I would tell the wife that I will not court you back into the marriage. She quit her job , her marriage , moved 400 miles to break her vows. I will no longer have these R talks with you while you treat me as an option. I am removing myself from this. Good night.
Then I would go dark. Start a parallel path.
Path one would be plan D. I would set this all up.
Path two would be self improvement. Self Esteem. New hobbies. Better shape. Exercise. Join a running club or what ever sport you like. Read , do what ever... GAL ... Get more involved in church. What ever you like to do. Or something you thought about.
I would work with IC on learning communication skills and solution oriented problem solving. Learn how to not be Mr. fix it. I would read MEN self help books and join some of their forums. Communicate with MEN on issues and resolutions.
I would look at my relationship with my wife. Its strenghts and faults. Hers and yours.
I would write them out and see which ones you can work on to make you a better man. This is 180's
I would review her complaints about the marriage , you and determine which are just smoke and which are real. Which are her trying to force you to change and which are ones you should work on to improve yourself as a man.
I would make myself more of a mystery with my wife at this time in the marriage. I would stop meeting her EN's and being an option. I would not make myself available for when she calls. For I would be working on my GAL. So if she calls when I am GAL'ing I would not answer. And send a text later.... Was out , could not respond, what's up?
Emails. I would respond after 24 hours. Some that are not important I would not respond to at all.
I would always start every conversation with her name. And every time I had an important point to say. I would start it with her name.
I would let her truly explore the path she has walked down without any interference.
I would begin to move on from the spot you are in now.
I would address this :
HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = YOU CHANGE SOLUTION
HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = EA/PA
VS.
HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.
HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE AND OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.
HER PROBLEM = SHE WORKS TO RESOLVE HER ISSUE
MY PROBLEM = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.
MY PROBLEM = I WORKS TO RESOLVE MY ISSUE
I would decide if she is worth being with.
I would always be respectful and polite.
A ton to think over. And you have not given enough info to know you. So think all this over. And respond back with what your thoughts are. Why you think somethings are uncomfortable and why you think some things are comfortable.
This will help you regain your voice. Communicating with others on this site.
Think and then think again.
Formulate your plans and then follow them.
I have offered some good ground work to frame around.
Take your time over the next week to read the stories of those who reply to you. Or go seek out some others and post to them. You need a mixture of voices. Some who have travelled the path you are on. Some who are at the same place.
Then find your voice and communicate here so people can better learn you and help you out of the limbo that you are setting up.
Alkaline, I realize I'm a little late to this dance, but you asked me to read your sitch. I've only got as far as this post here by Chatterbug, but I had to stop and give a
I only give maybe one of those "4 Whistles Awards" a month. This post to you ^^^ was PURE GOLD, and I hope you're following it. I'm about to read the rest of your sitch to get caught up to date . . .
Don't do it!!! Sounds like you did well on the phone call. don't go and ruin this. She seemed to be curious about your life. Let her be even more curious.
