To Lovingly Detach

[25yearsmlc]

Arsene you asked and answered your own question in your post. Let's take a look.

I just had a chat with a friend last night, the kind of friends who think I should move on, that thinks that W went too far and that she's probably deep in love with OM and that to stand, isn't going to help.


Does she understand what YOU mean by "standing"? And does she think it'll hurt the cause, or she simply does not believe in the cause?

At some point, if you choose to stand and DB, you have to not ask for support from friends like this. It's like going to a dry well for a drink. It's not "wrong" that the well has no water, but it is an empty well. Don't seek water from an empty well.

Get what you can from the friendship but support in standing, isn't coming from this woman...and btw, if your w were discussing the m with some OM who told her not to stand, how would you feel? Think hard about that one.


She said that when women leave, they don't come back. I don't want to believe in what she said but I guess she planted the seed of doubt in my mind.

Does she have a study that proves this? No she does not. But sure, I suspect statistically we are less likely to return but that's b/c it usually takes more for us to leave when there are children and we tend to stay until we have nothing left, instead of when things are 60/40 in favor of one side. They don't tell the h how close they are to not loving them anymore b/c ) they do still have SOME love for the h and they don't want to hurt him and 2) she fears yet more conflict if she says anything negative...

so while the h may claim shock, and it may be real, it's often b/c of how he reacted previously to "complaints & nagging" that the w did not come right out and tell him.

Yes that happens. At year 9 of my marriage I almost left too. Too long a story for now.

Point is, some women leave and don't come back but there are women HERE who left and came back. It does happen. And I have 2 family members who divorced and remarried their exes, years later. So that happesn too. (I read somewhere here, that 15% of couples re-marry but I don't know the source of that data.)

I know that it doesn't change anything in what I want/need to do and that I'll carry on GALing and 180ing as well as working hard at getting the best home and life for me and D8,

THIS^^^ IS your answer. Focus on keeping that up. I for one, think women are very moved by how their children interact with their dads. That's something that will be weird with a "blended" family, if she can even conceive of that with OM, there...

so stay on your path. This possibility has always existed. You could also become a great guy and reconcile and then your wife could get hit by a bus and die. So then, would your changes have been "wasted"?




but it affected my PMA. What if she is in love? Didn't I think she was anyway? There are signs all around. What if I'm underestimating him? Maybe he's a great guy? After all, the woman I love and respect has actually chosen to be with him. That's the same woman who then chose to marry me. What if he's a great guy? Why would she leave him for me, even if i change.

useless & counter productive, and a great excuse not to keep the changes going.


I let her down once, I might do it again, in her mind.


the only thing ^^^ here that YOU can control is that last highlighted line.

Don't let her down again. OR your d. And understand, this IS her fear. That you will revert if she returns. You nailed it.

But I have a hard time believing she'd "never" reconsider, if your changes are real and lasting. Not "tactics" to get her back, but genuinely made realizations, leading to changes in behavior and thought processes.

And expressions of love, when the time comes.


Besides, I'm raising her child, quite well. I'm safe. She doesn't need to give me love. I'm doing these things for my D8.

What does that mean? YOU are raising HER Child? INteresting wording...and since she has more legal rights, seems to me If anything, she can treat you a lot worse than she has been, and yet she's not.

So, what are you saying here?^^

I'd like to hear from WAW or MLC wives who were emotionally involved with OM and who eventually went back home.

There are some threads here and you can look them up. "Jamie" is one I think, but you can find them on their thread titles. Sandi was a WAW but does not sound at all like your w and I don't know what her h's issues were IF ANY

But you can also find threads of men who had wives come home.

Oh and see Faithfulhusband, (Bob), who had a WAW who came home. He's no longer here posting often (b/c they moved and are together and GAL.) But We stay in touch and their marriage really IS better than before.

His thread is around.
He was a good but "busy" man who needed and got a wake up call, and she was depressed and had OM, and some other issues too. They both hurt each other and they both forgave. It's really a beautiful story).

What was their state of mind? How did they come to the conclusion that home was the better choice? Did something trigger it?


You are looking for THE answer. There is no secret to this.

Sorry. If we knew "IT", we'd have made a fortune, or we'd have told the world.

IT's a process, a series of steps, not one trigger to return, (though there definitely can be single triggers to leaving)


I'm losing hope. It might just be a bad day. The bad day which usually follows the good ones. Nonetheless, I'd still like the perspective of a WAW who returned.

Snap out of it and Go find a WAW or talk to Bond OR Faithfulhusband, who both had WAWs return to them. And Denver too.

I'd veer off those who say their wives returned only after they "showed them a thing or two" (Or are Dobson followers -which is NOT a DB approach) but who only hear his "tough love" sessions and nothing about their own role.

Dobson can be punitive but what fascinates me is that he DOES say "own YOUR stuff" but almost every LBSer who takes that route only hears the part about "teaching the WAS a lesson" and they call it setting a boundary. IT's punitive. They forget all the stuff about their own work and if they can point to a OM/OW, they have NO interest in their own self improvement.

Find the thread of , "keep going" -wow, she is a woman LBSer who is sort of in your shoes but she's been here longer and she has 3 little kids. Shes' not American but her h is.

She is among the most brave souls I've "met" here. PER HER, She had a bad temper and was often very critical of her h. She hurt him more than she realized. She was, per HER description, hard to live with. In her defense, she had 3 kids in 4 years, and worked the whole time, full time, at a well paying but demanding stressful job.

Her h left her with a newborn and two toddlers for OW, but she admits she made life hard for him. She feels she pushed him into the arms of OW and that now, her changes are important for HER

(she's a better mom for one thing) but she fears that they may be too little too late.

I am not sure she's right, as I still have hope. But I so admire her fortitude and persistence, as she has been here 16-18 months. She is still on her own path to being the best KG she can be.

And she's changed. She IS a better woman Arsene...a much better woman. I hope her h wakes up but as you fear about OM and as KG says "OW is a nice person"

and her h may marry OW and stay with her for good. And he may be happy. IMO not as happy as he NOW could be with KG, the mother of his kids and living all together...

But KG is not "woe is me, all is lost" b/c she ENJOYS HER CHANGES w/o regard to her h noticing, and that's what's miraculous to me.

Plus, like you, KG does not want the divorce so her h sees her as an obstacle to his happiness. IT MAY be that once she removes herself from the equation that he can see, leaving the mother of his THREE YOUNG children, and forcing her to go back to work full time so he can buy OW more things, isn't so honorable...and or, desirable.

Maybe he'll see that the reasons he left his wife no longer apply...and life could be a lot simpler if he just gave their m another try, "for reals" now.

KG knows she must stay on her path for that to happen BUT even if it doesn't, she wants her path b/c she's happier now, and more loving and more relaxed. Her next r, with her h or not, will be healthier and happier. That's a guarantee.


Read HER thread if you want to get some perspective on time line.

I like you Arsene. But your patience in this is upsetting b/c you know that it is an issue of yours (impatience) in the marriage and you need to apply it NOW.

Stop "losing hope" b/c someone told you THEY did not see your w coming back. Maybe if this "friend" sees that you can really change, she'll believe your m has a shot.

Maybe she thinks your w is "done" b/c she would be done if she were your w or

maybe she wants you two to be done b/c she's interested...or she read an article...who knows?

all I know is you admit you need to change, so change.

Stop letting a day or two go by without an encouraging pat on the back and thinking you have to give up. Stretch that time line big time.

Besides, what is giving up? What would it look like? Less time with your d?
Leaving the country?

Other than not dating OW, for now, what is it you are doing "to stand for the m", that you would not be doing anyhow, for you and your d?

Veer away from punitive types who think shaming your w home will lead to happiness for anyone. Maybe a brief power play but if you divorce, SHE gets your d...
And I think you know the sounds you need to hear and the ones you have to turn off. There are no guarantees here Arsene, except one.


You do control you. So if you make the changes you want and need to make, and become the best man you can be, you will have to leave the results up to the Big Guy, and let it go, while keeping your changes-for you.


OK. Enough!!! I need to cheer myself up!!

A nice day to all!

Cheer up, stand up, dust yourself off and take a step forward...

you are moving forward. That's a good thing.