After 18 months - H is finally filing.

[25yearsmlc]

KG,

a sidenote...you say you come from a different culture? Your English and ability to articulate is better than most native English speakers I know. Just wanted to comment on that or ask what your culture is...maybe you're an Aussie and English IS your first language but my gut says, "no."

Let's try to be objective and look at HIS assertions. I'll try to refrain from mind reading but will likely fail a bit. I mean off the top of my head, nearly all, or all of his demands are self serving. But let's begin...

So here is the status with my legal sitch...

H originally wanted mediation so I asked him to bring me a proposal - this was when our S was born. His financial proposal was ridiculous. He wanted to split kids expenses 50/50 and no alimony for me. He even wanted me to split certain expenses like gas and food to separate what was the kids portion and what was mine. It was laughable.


Yes^^^And a little bit crazy...so enough said on that.

I told him I wanted to follow the formula and be fair (I had already consulted a lawyer). I said I didn't want more, but would not accept less because that was the only way I could stay at home and be a full time mom for my kids now that they are so young.

given that you worked before, (so we know you are not lazy), ^^^ this really appears fair to me AND in the interests of the kids. Yes, sure, I'm biased in your favor. But I'm not irrational about it. You certainly have a point.


(My H has a good income and I could make it work. It would be tight but I don't care - I just want to be with my kids. They are really struggling with all of this).

Can you communicate that to him without appearing to be trying to guilt him? OMG-We both know the guilting backfires big time.

But seriously, does he "get it" about the kids?

I re-assured H I would go back to work once our S started school, but that I had learned from my mistakes in our M and I would not neglect my family anymore because of work.

well said.

He keeps saying "you worked before, even with the kids, why can't you work now?"

Um, See above!! Plus you are single now too! (Oh yeah, that....) in his good moments doesn't he see ANY imbalance in the childcare AND work demands he's making?

He really thinks you can do all that stuff you did before AND with another child AND alone?? I have to say, that's awfully convenient for him to believe.


It'd sure be nice AND HELPFUL if he did half the soul searching you did in looking at your role in the marital problems. (SIGH)


He says I am being unfair, that I unilaterally decided to stop working

OKAY WHOAH....1) HE Unilaterally LEFT; and 2) you had a THIRD child; and

3) he met OW and refused to work on things since, let's face it, it's easier to start fresh, or so he believes atm; and

4) So, the situation changed...


YOU did not "unilaterally" quit your job and out of the blue chuck your career and blow it off.

That's not what happened. Stop the revisions before he starts saying you tried to kill him...

and that it is affecting our financial sitch and the financial goals we had for our kids' future.

Really? It's affecting your financial situation? YOUR choices are? Well So does divorce, having OW and her kids, and the other choices HE MADE -UNILATERALLY- that you are not even allowed to challenge now b/c that makes you a shrill shrew...but he gets to lob over his bombs and pretend he's being "oh so fair" and blah blah blah. Enough of that.

I know he usually THINKS he's being fair and he's not insane. But you need to get him somehow, probably only with a lawyer, to wake up.

He's not being fair to you NOW.

What happened in the past, PASSED, years ago.

We create what's in our lives. HE has created this financial stress. He's lucky you earned so much for so long. Has he ever thanked you for that? Aren't you a big reason you two had so much in savings?


I gave him the number he would have had to pay at that time based on the L's calculations. Since I was not working and H was really not spending more than 15% of his time with the kids at that time, the number was really high. H freaked out. He even said in an email "After all you have hurt me, I wished you could at least leave me with some dignity."

Two things-- 1) what exactly does he believe he's leaving you with?

2) Dignity comes from within anyhow,

but if he thinks you are trying to leave him in the lurch, he's forgetting he left a woman with a newborn and 2 kids under the age of 3 at the time...THAT is leaving someone without much.

To me, that was close to being unforgivable, no matter what YOU had done to him (short of violence).

Don't let him off the hook on THAT when he brings up your "abuse" -

you have to ask him 1) when he'll let go of the past and 2) what he thinks of abandoning you w/a newborn (and toddlers).

I mean you both deeply wounded each other and he did NOT make clear to you that he was about to leave. He avoided conflict and didn't own up to wanting out til he had nothing left, which he may give himself credit for-- but it didn't help his family.

It was simply easier than facing you earlier. That's on him, isn't it? In sum,

You both have a lot of forgiveness work to do. Thing is, YOU did it.



He then returned demanding 50/50 custody. I obviously thought it was all financially motivated, since he had not expressed any interest for more time with the kids before then (he was partying and traveling with OW a lot last year).

regardless of what he was doing, if he didn't spend more time with them then, and you have some proof (or he's not lying about it) there's empirical data to suggest that it's at least partly financially motivated.

YOU LOSE money by not working. Has he acknowledged that your choice hurts you as well as helps the kids? I mean you could earn more and therefore live better materially speaking so

at least in your requests, we know it costs YOU something to stay at home.

All of his requests happen to, (coincidentally I'm sure), benefit him financially.
I have to wonder, if you were still together, and you'd had this awakening anyhow, would he still want you to work full time like before? Truly?

He might say yes, but I don't think even he believes that.

He's one of those guys who believes in super women, and expects A LOT from them. Unless those expectations have changed for OW or she gets a lot of CS from her ex h, I have to wonder how she will meet all those demands.

Maybe he's evolved...but it doesn't sound like he has when it's about YOU working full time...OMG I'm amazed that he expects this. Really KG, don't let him fool you on this. You DID work too much w/such young kids and pregnant and HE wanted that and you allowed it and maybe you wanted it too.

but you don't NOW and you are wiser to have learned that lesson.

IF he knows he'd be okay with you staying at home for some years OR working less (if you were together & things had improved),

then he's going to have to face the fact that his requests are purely financial and are increased due to his "other" choices...and that's not your responsibility and your children should not pay the costs by losing him AND you.

BTW, my mc told me this when I began speaking of going back to work full time as h was gone, and it seemed divorce was imminent. At some point I would have to go back to work for financial reasons, period. But I knew there were legal advantages to NOT working yet, but wanted to check my motives completely.

The mc asked, "What's it going to be like for your d's to see so much less of their dad and then have YOU begin a new demanding full time job? Won't that be like losing both parents at once? If you can, make sure you home MORE now than before, not less..."

Made sense to me.

We also started having a lot of disagreements about exposure to OW.


which you now accept you cannot control. So be it. Don't beat a dead horse, pick your battles wisely.


I consulted L again earlier this year and she suggested we tried to work out custody issues with a counselor, which we did. We worked out a "temporary" custody arrangement we currently follow.

He now has kids about 35% of the time and I have them about 65%.
Counselor (and two other therapists I consulted on my own) have said that because my S is an infant (just turned 1) and we have two young girls as well, that they didn't recommend 50/50 custody for now. The kids need stability and if we go 50/50 and I go back to work, that would not be good for them. They said they recommend going to a 50/50 split in a few years when S starts school.

See my above comments. I totally agree. Did you document what these other t's said? Might help you and it won't hurt. Your h may find someone who can say "it won't hurt the kids" but he won't find a c to say "it'll HELP the kids to move them around so much".

My H doesn't agree. Because he is now serious with OW, he feels capable of handling the time demands (with her help) and that kids need him as much as me. This is tough because they DEFINITELY need him, but since he works, it's likely that any added time he gets, the kids would most likely spend it with OW and if that is the case, then I think they are better off spending it with me.

Agreed. BTW, Does OW work or not? WARNING---If you say "No, she's a sahm & will continue to be with h," I'm going to screw my head in the ceiling...


So we don't agree on custody - he wants 50/50 now and I want to follow the experts' advice and gradual approach.
We don't agree on the money - I want to follow formula, he wants to split kids' expenses and no alimony. I want to stay home with the kids for now, he wants me to go back to work now.


Retain counsel KG. This is a no brainer. The biggest issues that exist, you are NOT in agreement on and he hasn't moved much in your direction, has he?

His "reasonable sounding" pleas benefit HIM, not you and NOT the kids. He may not care if they benefit you, (but he feels you'll be alright in the long run and he "has the right to be happy" and blah blah blah,) and he's rationalized that he's a great dad b/c he loves his kids and wants them with him...so you need to hire a Lawyer now. YOUR WORDS are not being heard.

I do not see any advantage to waiting on that b/c right now you are the obstacle to his happiness. When that obstacle is removed, he'll only have HIS life and himself and OW to focus on if all is not perfect.

The sooner you hire a L, the sooner you have the L deal with all these disagreements and the sooner you appear to be a separate entity from the legal quagmire.

May seem ironic, but I believe it HELPS (including for recon purposes) to hire attorneys sometimes b/c keeps your r about the kids and pleasant and your changes show a lot more...

As for the conflicts? Oh those ugly matters are for the lawyers and it's the one thing that justifies our fees.

Let the Lawyers handle the gross stuff so all of your interactions are about positives.


We don't agree on degree of exposure to OW - I want to wait until after D for overnights and attending kids' activities, he wants her full participation now.

To me these are big, HUGE differences.

They are huge differences. What's a bigger difference than those, to him? Religion? Is the earth flat?

I have pointed them out to H and asked how he can possibly think we can use mediator or even collaboration. His reply - "I don't think we are that far apart."

It's a nice comment to make that SOUNDS amicable.

You can say what you just told us, or maybe something like

"H, I've made huge discoveries and changes I needed to make and thank you for being the catalyst for that. But I'm not going back to the way it was before, let alone as a single mom.

You say we are not far apart. But you want to pay much less than the state's formula in CS, whereas I want the formula. You say I'm being unfair but I didn't ask for more than the formula. I don't want the children or I to get less than the formula. You say I should get less b/c I worked so hard for us before. I don't see it as fair that I get less than a woman who never worked, but that's in effect what you are saying.

You want to change the custody arrangement, I don't.

You want me to work full time NOW, and I want to wait a few years until our ONE year old is in kindergarten. I am willing to lose the income I'd benefit from to do this.

H, while I feel that we are now both able to communicate much better than before-for which I'm grateful- we have fundamental disagreements about issues of great concern to me."

KG, soon you must Just retain counsel so these ^^^ discussions become moot.

Yes, collaborative would be cheaper IF IT WORKS...but if we don't come up with an agreement, we then have to start all over again, hire new lawyers and spend even more money (which we don't have anyways. As it is, we will need to borrow $ for this D - whichever route we go.

So my gut feeling has been - forget collaborative, just go traditional route and make sure to keep it fair.

Agreed...and note that part^^ I wrote about how getting lawyers sooner rather than later CAN sometimes make things a little less rocky, believe it or not.

The bottom line to me is - I don't want to fight with H and I told him so. I added that it is up to both of us to not do so, regardless of which process we choose.

I like that^^^.

But can I really guarantee I won't fight if I feel he is going against the well-being of my children? Chances are I will...

that's why you have a lawyer who will fight him, NOT you.

YOU will only discuss the fun things the kids did, or the concerns you have about a child, or politics if you two are similar, or family matters you still feel comfortable discussing, etc. NOTHING LEGAL b/c hey, that's what the Ls are for...

you are fun and upbeat and positive and the mother of his children,

Lawyers are the ones fighting...keep it separate as much as possible.

And if I know him as I do, he will do as well if he thinks I am going against what he thinks is the well-being of the kids.

yuk... I hate Divorce!

Divorce sure does not solve much. But if you are going to do it, or have it done to you

then try hard to do it without regret, as much as possible.

At least know you did right by your kids, as best you could, once you had your tools.

And, I know you will regret going back to work too soon.