I'm obviously very concerned. My focus is not on DBing, it's on fighting for my children. I know she can't stand the thought of being without her kids for more than a couple of weekends a month. I find that unfair and unacceptable.
However, I have no way of knowing how things will go and neither does she. How do I keep hope alive for a R at this point? Is it even worth me putting forth the effort, or do I accept that things could never be repaired at this point. I know standing up and fighting back for the sake of my children is the right thing to do.
If I'm successful in getting 50/50 or something close to it. She will likely never embrace a good relationship between us. If I lose, she will have what she wants, but resent me for the fight and probably never embrace a good R between us. What appeared to be a win/win stance, now appears to be a lose/lose sitch for me.
I have never felt more hopeless about our M as I do today. I would like to hear any advice about DBing, moving forward, and if I've done the right thing or made a mistake that really sets me back.
I'm sure some vets will chime in here, but I know how you feel. We've had those talks, we've talked to attorneys, we've planned our lives apart to an extent. I think the key to keeping your sanity (and you will read this over and over in these forums) is to detach and GAL.
It's difficult because you don't have control of the situation, but you have to let go of the stuff you can't control and focus on the stuff you can.
Talking to an attorney will help with some of the unknowns. They can explain what is typical in your state, what you're likely to get and not get. After that, the threats become less threatening, and your own fears are lessened.
Fighting for your children doesn't have to be nasty, so I wouldn't put my mind there. For me, it's more of a "matter of fact." Of course I will fight for 50/50 with my children....but I can do so calmly, without malice.
Try to stop mind reading your W....you have no idea what she will do or won't do. You can't control it, so stop wasting energy on it. Focus on you, and your kids.
Faithnomore: Just wanted to chime in here and let you know that I agree with breakdown about what she said, I used to be that angry guy and when someone said something to upset me I would say whatever I knew would cut them deepest. It wasn't the only tactic I used to hurt, but it was certainly a frequent one she got scared and was hurting a bit and she wanted you to feel some of that as well, its really that simple.
As far as fighting about custody goes....each state is different and you really need to talk to an attorney to help you understand what your state does, it may help ease your mind, or could make it worse, but for me not knowing is worse than anything. I called a couple this week just to chat...didnt cost anything and found out some interesting information I didnt know. #1 that where we live there is no such thing as a no fault divorce so they must show cause and if you fight the cause its virtually impossible to prove unless there has been physical abuse or an affair and my sitch has neither, therefore if I fight cause she'll have to wait out an 18 month seperation to get a divorce. #2 In my state judges almost never give joint unless both parties ask for it....the reason being that joit requires that both parties work together and unless their willing to do that a judge doesnt want to demand it b/c judges only care about whats best for the kids.
Again I have no idea where you live or what your state laws may be, but a lawyer will fill you in quickly. Explain to them that you don't "want" a divorce and you do want your kids and see where they go from there. I'll briefly explain how #1 and #2 above work to my advantage.....if she wants a divorce now then she's gonna have to agree to at minimum joint custody, otherwise I fight the cause and she has to be seperated another 16 months before we can legally divorce. So while dragging my feet on this thing may mean that I make her so angry that she says we'll never have a chance....the offer is always there for her to go ahead and agree to my terms and she can get a divorce now. Its a leverage thing and while its not something I hope happens in my sitch.....as far as my son is concerned i'll do whatever it takes to be in his life and not just be with him every other weekend.
I may have lost her for good over the last couple of days. I'm going to do everything I possibly can to make sure I don't lose my precious little girls along with her.
FNM,
I know all seems hopeless right now, but my wife told me pretty much EXACTLY the same thing. I'm not quite sure why it is when a man fights for custody -- even shared custody -- it constitutes "taking my kids from me!" shrieks from the mother, but I told her calmly that there was no way I was going to NOT fight for them and furthermore (since she was in an unrepentant affair at the time, and leaving our boys home for hours on end, often with nothing to eat on more than one occasion) I was not even going to take going for FULL custody off the table, but I told her I would think about it, and pray about it, and talk to my attorney about it.
What started out as a cordial -- even SYRUPY-SWEET conversation from her -- suddenly turned VERRRRRRY collllllllld.
When I get a chance, I'll try to find my old journal and copy and paste something from it. But not only did her coldness quickly turn back around, but she told me later on -- when we reconciled -- that she RESPECTED the stand I took, including on the custody thing.
You did good. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why you shouldn't fight for at LEAST 50/50 with your kids. Have you talked to an attorney about this yet? Preferably a good family law attorney who specializes in "men's rights" and paternal custody issues? Not sure what state you're in, but most jurisdictions these days START at "50/50," and then there has to be some pretty compelling evidence from one side or another why the needle should move much in either direction. You likely have far more rights than you even think you do (altho some states -- and even individual county's judges -- are are different from others).
I have consulted with an attorney over the phone and have an appointment for Monday scheduled.
Michigan is a no fault state. There is a mandatory 6 mo cooling off period when minor children are involved. I learned that I could not be in a better county in the entire state for father's rights. However, that does not mean she couldn't pursue and win full custody. It's just going to be beneficial for me with any of the three judges that I'm already firmly at middle ground. If they see an unwillingness from her to compromise or any attempt to alienate me from my kids, they will not think too highly of her position. However, she does have a huge argument in moving closer to her work. It would almost force me to counter with my own full custody position. That's where things stop being favorable for me. I know I'm in a good county. I know 50/50 would be best for my children, but sometimes its just not feasible to accommodate both sides.
That's what has me bothered. Neither of us have any grounds (substantiated) to claim the other is a poor parent. If she comes with anything, it would be a fabrication or opinion issue. There was comfort in hearing from the attorney tell me they have seen situations where even a "hands off" dad has received 50/50 with a SAHM. My wife claims she stayed in the same county to allow me to see my kids, but she certainly has the right to change her mind as long as it's not over 100 miles away. However, in return she expects me to give full physical custody apparently.
I've made up my mind to fight for my kids. I wish that guaranteed I will get them. I do not want to lose hope for R, but if I had to trade that for my kids I would do it every time. I would like to think we could behave in a civil and reasonable manner through this. If we don't I think it spells doom for R later. If I fight and lose somehow, everything that matters will be gone. Right now it's a thought I cannot fathom.
FNM I commend you for fighting for your kids, if mine comes to D im going to do exactly the same thing and think that more men should.
Im with you on the poor parent thing...my wife is a good mother, but im a good dad too so I have no idea how someone is going to decide one of us deserves custody more than the other. The only slight advantage I may have is my family is nearby and my son has always stayed with my mother when he was sick, she was the one that took him to dr's appts, its where he goes before and after school etc., and im told that one of the things judges look at is who does these type of things to see who is the more involved parent. B/c we both worked my mother took care of all of that and will be available to do all of that still if I get custody, obviously she'd do it for my W too even if we D, but couldnt if my wife moved and I think thats whats being planned.
Good luck I hope and pray your R works out, but if not then I certainly hope you get at least 50/50 with your kids.
My W could have easily relocated near her work last week just as easily as she moved within 2 miles of where I live now. She could have commuted for attorney and court visits with far less driving than she will do commuting to work on a daily basis.
I do have to recognize this as a positive for me in some regard. Whether to keep me involved with the girls, to see how things go, to not have to change schools on my daughter along with all of the other changes going on around her, she easily could have left. I don't really need to understand her thinking to be able to appreciate the gesture. I do think in the long run she may come to respect me for fighting for my kids.
She approached me again today about the mediation, and if she should cancel. I said keep the appointment for now. I'm torn.
This is mediation outside the courts, and while affordable and novel, it assumes you are going to be able to compromise for it to be successful. If you are the agreement is binding once approved by both side's attorneys. It's not cheap, and I can easily see it being fruitless at this point. So we could spend a couple thousand dollars to mediate only to find it's not going to work and we are right back at the beginning. I told her that the courts will require mediation anyway. She got upset because she feels we are giving up control to a stranger to decide the ultimate outcome. I agree, I'd rather we could work it out.
However, at the moment I honestly feel I have a greater chance of a judge being fair than I do in my W's ability to compromise. I would love to have enough money sitting around to try anything that might work short of a contested battle. Heck, I'd throw the whole farm and any future earnings I have coming at MC!! But our means are very modest, and I have to be realistic and practical.
How do I tell the W that I don't have the confidence in the mediation process without setting her off again?
How do I say that I would rather have someone who knows the law do the negotiating for me without threatening her?
How do I poo poo her decision to stay in the area by not "playing nice"?
Or do I throw our hard earned money at mediation, which could really jeopardize my ability to attain competent representation? (her family has money, and yes I asked if they would chip in and they won't)
I wouldnt put it past her right now that she just wants to whittle down my ability to pay an attorney.
Any suggestions? This would happen Monday eve unless I tell her otherwise after talking to an attorney Monday morning.
Her last comment to me was "you have finally eliminated any lingering love I had for you". That obviously hurt.
At this time you do not need any love from a woman who's purpose in life is to ruin a family. Take your children from you. Start an affair with someone she works with.
Personally if I was you.
I would serve her D papers. I would also set up a meeting with a co-parenting councilor to mediate a fair parenting plan.
I would show to her in actions that I mean business when my fatherhood is at risk.
I would force the issue. Cause this woman needs a little dose of reality.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
My plan right now is to speak to an attorney on Monday. This attorney was absolutely awesome over the phone. She was livid that my wife was not giving me time with my D's! She told me that she usually charges $200 for a consultation, but that what my W was doing was wrong and she invited me in Monday no charge. She gave me confidence that things would end up ok, and really made me feel better about my sitch.
I don't know if I can afford her yet, but she is exactly the type of person I would want to represent me. She genuinely seemed to care about my rights and wants me to know what I need to do from here on out.
Im still torn about the mediator. I don't want to go broke and maybe even break family to fight. But I will not negotiate away my rights.
My position right now is that I will file myself next week
My mom and dad divorced when I was the same age as my eldest D. His advice was to try and work with the mediator. His situation was very similar to mine regarding uneven resources. My mom was not rich, but worked as a secretary at a law firm. They defended her free of charge. My dad lost his business and every penny he had fighting for me and my sister. They simply wore him down and drained his money until he had no choice but to end the fight. I'm very scared going in, I'm not going to beat around the bush.
But as someone else here so helpfully said : " I am not going to negotiate with the very same terrorist that blew up my family"!
I'm praying and trying to behave and handle this as decently as I can. I want things to be civil. It would be a good foundation for the road ahead in parenting our D's if we can show a willingness to work together now. I'm not looking forward to Monday at all. Whether it be that I tell the W I am not going to mediation and deal with that fallout. Or if I do go, knowing I'm already coming into the negotiations at the least I will accept (50/50) when I first sit down. My W is not going to meet me there. At best she will meet me in the middle of where we now stand. I'm already at fair and best for my kids.
Im unable to sleep, eat, or do much of anything right now. I know I have to take care of myself and be in the best position I can be for the next step. I'm praying for spiritual strength, seeking encouragement and advice from here, and trying my best to have PMA and envision a fair outcome.
There used to be a poster on here named Greek, and she used to say "Don't negotiate with someone who is suing you." Divorces are, technically, civil suits and it's best not to try to negotiate directly with your wife right now.
I'm a BIG believer in mediators, but ONLY if (and any good mediator will tell you this themselves) each party also retains (or at least hires by the hour) their OWN attorney to review any final document before you sign it!!! This is simply protecting your own (and your kids') interests, and being wise.
Whether or not your wife gets her own atty is up to her, and you certainly shouldn't be trying to advise her on what to do -- she's a big girl, and it's time she put on her BGPs. But you should absolutely have your own atty representing your (and your kids'!) interests in this. I cannot stress that strongly enough.
