Makes sense. I'm just lacking a lot of focus right now. I'm not able to concentrate on my school work right now, but it's not all because of my W - just a majority of it.
I try not to think about it, but then something comes up that ropes me back in. I sent my BIL and his wife a b-day card with gift cards in it for them. I'm reaching out to them to keep connected, but keeping my distance for the most part. I've basically circled the wagons and I'm keeping them out, but I know that in time my relationship with them will rebalance itself. I've put some thought into my intentions on this because I hadn't really put much thought into it before. I know I'm the bad guy in all this and that's just part of my W going through MLC. What I've found about what hurts me, is that my W must be saying some pretty good things about me in order for people to believe that divorcing me is the only option for her. I know my W has said a lot of these things to some of her family members in order to justify her actions and gain support and that hurts.
Regardless of how they feel about her decision process, I live on one side of a bridge and my W on the other. They mean a lot to me, but talking freely with them or visiting them is uncomfortable for me because of the villain I'm being painted as. Unlike with my W though, I am keeping in touch with B-day stuff or holiday's with cards. I still forward funny text's I get, but recently I was made to feel uncomfortable about myself. It wasn't my B-in-L's fault, it's all on me. I forwarded him a text of a picture/joke and he replied with a fun approval in a question format. I felt as though he was trying to reach out to me and I instinctively backed off any further comment. I feel like I'm in a spotlight. After I sent out that b-day card I felt overly self conscious. I've never sent them anything and doing so now, combined with whatever my W is telling them makes me feel very uncomfortable as if I'm trying to make myself look good. It's the only way I can see right now to not completely drop off their radar because I really do love them all very much and will miss them greatly this coming holiday season.
Then this morning after I picked up the kids to get them to school, S12 told me he went off on EA/OM in front of his mom. He told me that he popped off on the guy about ruining/interfering with his mom and I. I didn't have much to say about it and didn't pry. I couldn't help my smile because I'm glad that he's trying to work through his feelings instead bottling them up like I always have. I just told him that he shouldn't worry that I'll get in trouble with his mom when he does things like that because I'm already the bad guy. He should never be afraid of his feelings and I would expect him to tell me if I do/say anything that makes him feel uncomfortable.
This also gave me pause to think a bit more after he left for school. It's not helping me cope with the hurt right now, but when putting it in perspective, I'm rather thankful that I don't get badgered by my kids about the impending D. Where they challenge their mom's decisions openly, they support mine. I can't imagine that dealing with that is easy on her, but I also know it thickens her resolve to be right and me look worse. Either way though, it's nice not to have that kind of stress to have to deal with. Granted, until she does sit down and deal with it, she'll always have EA/OM to help her out. I don't loath my W and in my way I do feel sorry for her, just not sympathy yet.
As for going darker than I already am on her, I'm looking into making an online calendar to send email/text alerts to her in regards to the kids schedules and activities. I'm already tired of her texting me to help remind her of things because she says she can't always remember everything. I find it interesting that even though I'm forgetful(ADD), I appear to have played a larger role in our relationship than I first thought. Either way, right now it's about having as little communication as possible with her while I sort out my person state. We'll see where the road goes from there....
After I sent out that b-day card I felt overly self conscious. I've never sent them anything and doing so now, combined with whatever my W is telling them makes me feel very uncomfortable as if I'm trying to make myself look good. It's the only way I can see right now to not completely drop off their radar because I really do love them all very much and will miss them greatly this coming holiday season.
Again, I get it. I felt the same. My MIL was telling people that I'm still part of the family, I'll always be their SIL, etc. At the same time she was taking trips with the OM. In my mind, I don't want family to choose sides. I don't think they want to either. I've done the same as you - sent birthday cards, graduation gifts, etc. I still do. Why? Prior to this my ex did that stuff. Not because I can't or won't, but because it was something she wanted to do and I felt like it was handled. Now that she's gone, I am the only one to delegate that task to. If I want it done, I do it. I do NOT feel any shame about it or any awkwardness about it any longer. It is what it is. They are welcome to feel how they want to feel about something. I'm going to do, say, feel how I am going to and others are welcome to do, say, feel how they are going to. Won't change what I do nor the reasons I do them.
You and your ex were very close for a very long time. Over time, we divide tasks amongst close people. Just happens that way in most cases. That, and she may be overwhelmed by emotions to the point of not being able to remember things very well. I know that was one of the striking differences with my ex - she used to be very organized and planned out but really couldn't remember anything outside of her chosen field of view last I saw.
You seem to choose your words carefully around the bit where you had pause to think. Not sure why that seems that way to me, but I suspect that you don't like those feelings. Maybe I'm miss reading something.
Doesn't it make sense that she wants to be "right"? So do you it seems. Except you seem to realize that being "right" or "justified" is really not very meaningful.
If you're ex is anything like mine, it may incense her even more that you aren't all weepy and broken down into a puddle of mud. I think you realize now she just wants to be mad, so regardless of your actions, she'll be angry.
As for the boys. Is it possible they are trying to show you how they are supporting you by talking about "attacking" him and her? Is it about the boys or about you that they do that?
Just curious,
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Doesn't it make sense that she wants to be "right"? So do you it seems. Except you seem to realize that being "right" or "justified" is really not very meaningful.
^^^^^ I have noticed that "theme" in your postings as well. Also, based on your postings, a tendency towards "black/white" "all/nothing" sort of thinking...maybe something to explore within yourself (and yes, I have been there, so I get where you are coming from...I still have to catch myself).
Quote:
If you're ex is anything like mine, it may incense her even more that you aren't all weepy and broken down into a puddle of mud. I think you realize now she just wants to be mad, so regardless of your actions, she'll be angry.
And if you did breakdown, she would most likely still be mad...I did both and W was flipping sh_t on me either way...bottom line...the anger phase is just that, anger at ANYthing that goes against what the mlc'er wants, or thinks they want, ANYthing that makes them feel bad, guilty, irresponsible, etc, etc, ad nauseum...anger at the birds flying by who just happened to exist at the moment they happened to look that direction...really...
No way out of it, it isn't really about you, just get through it and remember that its HER problem, not yours...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
One other thing...this is just my opinion...I don't think you have fully ACCEPTED your reality at the moment (BOTH intellectually AND emotionally), and your confinement within it.
This, and needing to be "right" and black/white thinking are keeping you a bit "stuck" at the moment.
ACCEPTANCE ---> road to peace, road to compassion, road to detachment, road to thriving, not just surviving...
At least that's how it worked for me...your mileage may vary, of course.
Something to think about....
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
hi- i'm just reading your stuff here- it occurs to me to say to you that my mlc h and my neices & nephews are ALL the products of divorce. my own dad died when i was 18-
no matter what the heck is going on with you and wife- you just need to be the guy that loves them and says so (UNqualified love- no strings and no "if deserve it". it's hard- my h is non-verbal about stuff like the L word. it's his sad affliction from his own parents awful divorce (they both cheated on each other tho i believe- he's emotionally mangled.) BUT - if his dad could have managed to be loving and supportive instead of just cold and worried about himself and heaping scorn on his mom- perhaps there would have been some hope for a poor kid in a bad position to have made it out a bit more normal.
he was alone- nite and day pretty much - all the kids i love have issues- WHAT THEY also have - is at least one parent (mom) (but could be you too) who provides love and stability and shows it and says it daily. they are doing okay mostly- i think that's the difference. i get it that REAL MEN DON'T TALK ABOUT FEELINGS (I'VE BEEN told soooo many times )
here's what i think is the important thing- people only REALLY KNOW (for sure) what you say out loud and TELL THEM. we all speculate and assume - but it's just that and we all KNOW IT - KIDS TOO.- that we're guessing or hoping. IF IT COMES RIGHT FROM YOUR MOUTH- THE LOVE, SUPPORT, NO MATTER WHAT - EVEN UNDERSTANDING FOR YOUR WIFE'S "CONFUSION" IF NOTHING BETTER COMES TO MIND. IF YOU ARE KIND AND LOVING AND UNDERSTANDING- I'M THINKING they have a better chance of ending up that way too. THEY WILL hone in on the example & your values to form their own. tell them they are great and point out whatever is their own particular strong point- force yourself to soft-up and say it out loud.
don't let your issues spill allover the place- i'd think be judicious about what of your pain you share with your kids and save it to rant to friends. they don't need to know- it's awful to think your parent is in pain- kids feel helpless & should be able to count on you- not the reverse.
don't mean to be bossy here- just a few thoughts because it's soooo all around me. kids can survive and be okay- each one becomes a different person and honestly- i think it's genes and a crap-shoot what sort of person they become. you can only help them like themselves and feel loved & secure about YOU. the rest is up to them.
forgot to say. i feel your pain - the bit about you being a hopeless romantic. you're not alone. my "addiction" also (love) . maybe we need to try and wean ourselves off love just like an alcoholic and booze. like you- i can't truly envision this man gone forever. i can think of tons wrong with him - haven't truly accepted he may be gone forever. maybe, really, he is not the person i thought he was and i shouldn't love him any more. easy to say huh?
good luck tho, and be thankful for your kids - somewhere to channel the love- tell them. kids never laugh at you- they will thrive on your expressions and you will do tons of good- kids need alot of love, nothing is too much and they give it back so freely.
if you discover the cure - let me know. i'm someone who wants to be strong & detached & seems to short. -
I'm with you. All the way. Like nero says, this might be some love addiction but I'd rather look at it as our refusal to accept that the person we love has suddenly done a negative 180 and is now forever changed.
Everything I've read about MLC leads me to believe that my W will one day come out of it and realize the destruction she's caused. I know I wouldn't want to be in her skin when that happens and I'm sure that if today, I stay consistent and keep on loving her "unconditionally" (meaning I don't expect anything in return - and believe me, it's hard to do), I can be there for her when it does happen. I know that it doesn't mean we actually have a chance at reconciliation but if the last thing I do for her is be the only one who stood by her, even though I'm now the most evil person to her, I'll be the kind of person "I" want to be.
Having said that, of course I hope that I can keep the love I have for her until that day but as things are nowadays, I might not be a good enough man for that. The pain we feel everyday is too real and too much of a tear into the fabric of our soul to be able to heal easily and I doubt that W would ever give me the time to process this pain if ever she was to come back.
Nonetheless, hope is always there that she will come out sooner than later and we hold on, one day at a time. We take the venom, the OM/OW, the hurt they inflict on our kids, the anger and the fury, mostly unjustified, the demonizing, the complete amnesia with regards to our history together, we take all of that as if it was a sick child vomiting on our favorite suit. We don't/can't blame them, we even forgive them, justify them in front of our friends and tell ourselves that it's what we have to do. For better or for worse, well we took the better so now it's time to pay the ferryman.
I also have moments of weakness but for the most, I found that meditation keeps me strong when I go through hard times.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Cripes Arsene! I thought in other postings of yours that it was ironic that your EA/MLC and Separation dates are awful close to mine, but I could honestly swear I've said just about everything you just did and I feel the same way. "For Better or Worse." I believe that real love is loving someone when they least deserve it. Or at least part of it. It's why I can't let go even though I pray nightly for it.
Nero - I'm a bit messed up too so I know where you're coming from in regards to history. It's something that's plagued my thoughts for so long now - Why not me? I've not known my father since I was 3 and the only memory I have is of my sister pleading with me to stop crying because I would wake up dad and he would spank me. Happy Fathers Day! I am happy to report that I've not turned out like that fellow, but I did turn out like my mother in a lot of ways - emotionally detached. So why not me? I "think" it has something to do with my mother joining the military in order to allow my sister and I a chance to experience travel and live in different cultural environments. So when I think about it, there's not much that leaves me wanting, I've seen and lived so much.
My focus on my kids right now comes from just being relaxed around them and supportive. I listen, which is new to me and I can tell the results. Aside from being bored all the time because I don't have much money to do things, they like being with me and I'm good with that. I've never been the best at the L word, but I'm pretty in tune with touch. So if I forget to tell them how I feel, I've always been good about a hand on the shoulder or a hug with a smile. I'm always telling them - "You know <S6><S12>? You're allllllright." I'm aware of always offering them positive feedback.
AJ - I haven't been able to connect the dots on it before, but I do feel obligated to do those things for family. We did seperate chores/duties over the years and b-days and holidays is something she always took care of. It is something I want to do, but for now I'm still waiting/looking for something and I don't know what it is.
I do have a specific thought process and even though I know there's usually at least 3 doors, I focus on 2. I do believe I'm right about my W. It's what's frustrating me, how can I have read so many books and online resources, seen everything unfold right before my eyes, heard the things she's said to me match exactly what is documented in so many places. Yet I can't do what just about every documented resource says to do -> let go! I've always looked at it analytically as though it were a psychological case study and it's helped me shrug off the hurtful things she's said to me throughout MLC. It has hardened me a lot, but I'm wary of over hardening. That's partly why I'm cautious.
This caution adds to my approach to anything. I have a minor bout with ADD and part of having this is I often forget what it is I want to say. Every serious conversation I can think of, I've always been left with realizing too late that I forgot something or that I didn't word something correctly the way I wanted too. It's hard and I have to always be on guard and trying to pay attention. The trick is to not let it get to me and start stressing, but to just let it happen as something that just is.
I often question if the Acceptance I'm looking for is of me and not my situation. Maybe that's the cure I'm looking for. It's easy to say we dictate our disposition, but I can see there's a difference in actually knowing it.
Something fun to contribute today:
A grandmother moved into the house next door several months back and we've always waved to each other in passing. She came over yesterday and asked a quick favor while she was out of town this weekend and S12 was with me at the time. She asked if we'd be interested in going to the pool at the country club she's a member at and I told her that sounded like fun and it was really nice of her to ask. She left soon after and S12 demanded I take a seat and he insisted that she just asked me out on a date. It was hard not to laugh. I explained that an old lady living by herself might need some help every now and then and she was probably doing the grown up thing and establishing communication with me since none of the other neighbors ever seem to be outside or around like I am. I told him that I've been looking for an opportunity to reach out to her and just let her know that if she ever needed help with something, she could just ask.
"I do believe I'm right about my W. It's what's frustrating me, how can I have read so many books and online resources, seen everything unfold right before my eyes, heard the things she's said to me match exactly what is documented in so many places. Yet I can't do what just about every documented resource says to do -> let go! I've always looked at it analytically as though it were a psychological case study and it's helped me shrug off the hurtful things she's said to me throughout MLC. It has hardened me a lot, but I'm wary of over hardening. That's partly why I'm cautious."
I feel the same way. The thing I noticed though is that every time I seem to be in a frame of mind where I'm ready to let go, she softens her approach and reels me back in. It's like she senses what's going through my mind and she is much better at this game than I am.
There is, here as well, a fear that with me letting go, I might lose the only thing which still links us and the only chance we've got at a bright future together, my hope.
I don't remember your timeline RT. Have you been at this for the last 2 years as well? The last year for me was fine though. I actually thought we had worked things out. She'd made plans for a future together and I was excited at the prospect of a great exciting life together, and then? Bomb Drop through email and my life has never been worse than it has for the last 3 months.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Yep - We're similar in several ways, but I at least got a warning before the face-to-face -> "The kids and I are moving out" (5/12). I don't often like taking advice from others, but I took some advice from my sister and asked my W for 1 year. We'll do counseling to resolve any differences and hopefully part ways as friends. My W said no. She couldn't live another year like this (sleeping in the living room or being under the same roof as me) and she knew that counseling would give me false hope.
I started saving money where I could on the side after that and it helped some.
As for my story it's not much different than anyone else. There was a slow deterioration in the relationship brought on by both of us and various competing factors for about a year leading up to MLC. Then following my childish behavior ( silent treatment ) after an argument over a last minute change in vacation plans that she'd known about for a few months and told me hours before departure, kicked off the fun times (7/10). Took me less than a day to know I was wrong and should have been more forth-coming about why I was upset. I spent the whole vacation trying to make amends and she spent almost a year not saying more than 3-4 words to me at any given time from that vacation on. She dropped the ILYBINILWY stuff several months in.
This last year, year 2, I'd been zoned in on researching MLC since my SIL had mentioned to me that she believed my W was going through it. It helped me cope and it helped me stop worrying nightly and as I pulled back I saw that our relationship was improving. I thought we were going forward in a positive direction and I worked on maintaining a relaxed and accepting approach to my W and not a needy one. I guess it didn't work.
As for the EA/OM (2010), I don't know if there's a PA going on and I don't much think about it. He's nothing to me. He farts at the dinner table regularly, curses at his kids, can't stop reliving his glory years (Al Bundy) and bragging about who he "knows", gets uncomfortably confrontational when served vegetables with his food and my kids don't like him.
What he has is a broken heart that my W has seen as a cause to fight for. He is also first in line to defend her against S12 when S12 is trying to tell his mom how he feels. So making him happy perhaps is what she thinks will give her happiness and he shows signs of appreciating and valuing her.
That's the long and short of it. Is there a PA? Maybe, but I can't stop thinking that he would be constantly farting in bed and think it's funny to my W. Either way, I'm not losing sleep over it. I do know I have a larger set of qualities that far out weigh what he brings to the table and those are the strong qualities that brought my W and I together years ago. He doesn't have those qualities, he has some different ones, but he's by no means my match. I'm interested in learning and adapting to new things and have no idea where tomorrow takes me, but I welcome it.
I used to be afraid that letting go meant we'd be lost forever, but then part of reconciling is learning about each other all over again as the people you've become and not what we were. It's easy to say that, but I know deep inside that I'm still afraid.
I haven't always been a great guy. I've always been a nice guy and wanted to make people happy vs unhappy with me, but my emotional detachment meant that up until my wife, the longest relationship I'd ever had as a little over a year. I monitored my relationships based on whether or not sex alone was worth putting up with people. When I met my W, or I should say started dating, she was never like the others. I respected her and wanted to live up to her expectations. Nobody had ever been like that for me and I took a lot of good/bad people for granted because of that.
I gave up a lot for her, but I know now it isn't what I gave up, it's how I failed to communicate. I believe MLC was pre-determined for my W, but I know I could have done a better job over the years. I feel pretty good about what I've learned so far so I look forward to tomorrow regardless.
Interestingly enough, I don't know if my W is roping me back in on anything at any given point. I know when she's angry at me. It's visible in her texts, in person and on the phone. She knows I'm hurt based on my actions, or lack of actions in regards to her. She's very aware that I do not look at her or when I don't even acknowledge her presence 2 feet away from me when I'm addressing the kids. It's not healthy for them and that's why I'm having a hard time with not fighting so hard to get past my anger and hurt.
I do like talking to her on the phone on occasion. I'm dark, so communication is 99% initiated by her - literally 99%. I like the sound of her voice when I don't detect the anger. I've noticed I have no sense of humor anymore when talking to her on the phone. I have a gigantic sense of humor and love to laugh, but I suppose I took that away from her along with being best friends. I just don't feel amused when around her. What usually ends the call every time is when she starts saying things as though she's thinking of my best interests or doing me a favor. I stop talking anymore at that point. Not complete silence, I just offer nothing more than simple responses if any to whatever she's saying at the time. I can tell, when she's not angry, that she notices the call is coming to an end very soon. She's not interested in what's best for me and it irritates me to no end to hear her sound as though she believes she's looking out for me. I don't know, I'm still thinking about it on occasion. You can choose to be angry all you want, but you can't be angry 100% of the time, even in MLC-mode. When she's "softer" towards me, I simply chalk it up to her having had a good day at work or wherever she was. I "choose" to be the same every time - Indifferent. As if all is fine with my world, but no indication of joy or frustration, only smiles for my boys.
As for my presence her today, today I hate my W. I don't like the weight of such a word as 'hate', but she is guilty of an ultimate crime......
Last night S12 was out with friends and S6 and I were together. He hates taking showers, but I win out on that argument 100% of the time. He was crying and whining as usual and I was my normal calm self, knowing I was going to get my way anyway. He was complaining about not liking to take showers upstairs because he always feels alone. I've heard this before, even when my W was still living at home, but the tone was different last night. I told him I would go grab my school book and sit in the bathroom and read while he took a shower so he wouldn't be by himself.
When I got back up stairs he was still crying and i sat down to listen. He said he couldn't tell me, that I'd get mad. I told him he should never feel uncomfortable about talking to me and that I would be happy to hear whatever he has to say. He told me he hated divorce and that his mom moved out. He said divorce scared him because he felt that he was going to be left alone.
S6 is one of the happiest kids I know. S12 has always been someone who broods and can be moody so I'm used that. But S6 is different. He's an energy all in itself and when he cried last night, in that way, it was more different than anything I'd ever heard from him. I felt his heart in a way I took for granted that I'd never see and I saw his hurt.
I can see that S6 and I grew closer last night after that. I can see it. I'm thankful for the opportunity to be the best example I can be for my boys, but I hate my W right now. I do not wish her any harm, but right now I'm placing full blame on her.
There are a lot of unsaid weekly things in my postings of things that don't need to be said, because we've ALL lived/heard them. So knowing what I know, regardless of MLC, I hate my W today. I want very badly to wake up to tomorrow.
