14 Months Secret Separation: talking mediation

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Secret motivations = affair? maybe. I kind of doubt it. I have wondered if his old EA will turn up shortly after our D. However it's been pointed out to me that all the time he's spending here and then with his friend and friend's son would suggest that his AP is veeeerrrry understanding and low maintenance. He can't be seeing her much.

I didn't say it had to be an affair, only that he may be "in love" with someone else. That doesn't have to be reciprocated. My W's first EA was with a coworker she was infatuated with, she spent all her time thinking about him and was very much in love with him, despite the fact that he lives in another country and really only talked to her about work. The point is, if H's heart is somewhere else, then he is closed off to anything and everything you might do. At that point, no matter how much you become the better choice, you have to wait until the infatuation has run it's course. If he has limited access or it's not reciprocated, that can last a long time -- years.

...there isn't a single thing I'd have done differently if there was or wasn't an OW. I've been working on being the better option no matter what: whether I'm up against a female, a male, complete solitude, or his job, or a MLC.

I know that, your DB efforts, your introspection, and your personal growth have been nothing short of amazing. Although you are not saying as much, what I'm reading between the lines is some angst over the fact that you don't understand why H hasn't responded at all. I believe that bothers everyone who gets stuck in limbo. For me, I found some peace in understanding WHY my efforts yielded no improvement with W. Maybe that knowledge would give you some peace too, maybe not. You don't *need* me or anyone else to give you answers, you're very self sufficient in that regard, I'm just trying to share what has helped me to achieve some measure of peace lately.

I really don't know if I agree with you about romantic love and chemistry. I've heard of women who were not physically attracted to a man until they got to know him and he was wonderful and charming and funny or some other combination that she fell in love with completely. I believe it can happen. I hope it can. I noticed during my marriage I was almost never attracted to any other man at all, not counting Roger Daltrey, but very attracted to my H.

I love that you don't agree because I really like to dig into this further. I've been putting lots of thought here. There are many types of love, but for marriage there are two useful types to think about -- romantic love and companionate love. Romantic love = "I'm in love with you", companionate love = "I love you".

I definitely think you can will yourself to feel companionate love -- that's a choice for sure. That's a decision. I do NOT believe you can will yourself to feel romantic love, that's something that happens to you. You can certainly make a decision to work towards romantic love, but you can't just will it to happen. It also may not sustain itself as a constant, it will come and go in a long term relationship.

WRT your example above, you're focusing on physical attraction, and that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about that spark you feel for someone that means you're attracted to them. It could be 100% personality, but there is *something* there that pulls you like a magnet.

I do know people who got into marriages with people they were not attracted to, but they convinced themselves that the person was a good enough match that attraction didn't matter. "He's good looking, has a good job, is good with kids, and likes animals, and I'm at the age where I want to get married -- good enough"

The other end of the spectrum is people who fall in love with someone who is obviously a bad choice for them but marry them anyway because of the passion. The guy is a deadbeat, has a drinking problem, treats her like crap, but she's hanging in there because there's just something about him.

I think both of these situations are going to be extra challenging in the long haul. When I look at my friends, the ones who have the "best" marriages in my view are cases where the natural companionate match is very good, *and* the spark exists -- that seems to be an exception, but in that case, it's just not going to be as much work to keep it going.

It seems that in most cases, either there's a lack of passion, or a lack of companionate match, and lots of effort needs to go into dealing with those gaps.

If you ever want to get really depressed, Google "My [husband/wife] was never in love with me". It seems that in cases where the romantic love was NEVER there, the top eventually blows off the pressure cooker no matter how good everything else is going -- it's like a caged soul. I believe people yearn to feel attraction, it feels good to want, and I do not believe you can create those feelings by convincing yourself to love someone who you don't feel a spark for.

So attraction can be shut off. It's not completely outside my control. And I believe it can be nurtured and the flames fanned again.

Are you talking about attraction, or sex drive? Sex drive can clearly be turned off, and A/D's do a good job of that, but I do not agree that you can "turn off" attraction. Your relationship can no longer be worth the work and pain, and your resentment can overshadow your attraction and begin to inform your thoughts and behavior, but if your WAS suddenly came back to you in a loving, credible, way, willing to make the deep emotional connection you were looking for, do you really think you could turn off your feelings about that and turn your back on it without feeling any pain? I don't think so.

But once he told me if I gained weight he'd not divorce me but we just wouldn't have sex much anymore...and I knew then that my H had a different kind of love for me, more of a surface love, that didn't go into my soul or value my whole being, and I was disappointed about that.

I'm going to shift gears here -- men say stupid, immature stuff from time to time. (1) they may not mean it in the moment, it may be a "brain fart", (2) they may be trying to hurt you because of some way you hurt them that you're not even aware of, (3) they may feel they're losing power in the relationship, (4) they may have read some "make your wife a nympho" book that said women like being insulted and treated badly, (5) they may have meant it in the moment, but a week later they may feel differently and don't think to tell you because they've forgotten about it.

Early on in my marriage after we had our second son, I was exhausted. I felt a deep obligation to make sure my kids were happy. I would get on the floor and play with them every night, I'd read to them, I'd sit with them, take them to the park, make them laugh, etc. It didn't come easily or naturally to me, but I thought it was important, and what I "should" do, and my W wasn't doing it, so I did it, and it drained me. By the time the kids went to bed I was physically and emotionally spent and just needed an hour of "me" quiet time before I went to bed.

At some point during that period, my W came to me and said she needed more from me -- more attention for her, more connection. I told her that I didn't have it to give, and that what I was giving had to be good enough.

She, like you, interpreted that to mean that I did not love her the way she needed to be loved, and that the answer I gave was "now and forever", and didn't need to be revisited, and she mourned that hope for a different marriage.

For my part, I forgot about the conversation -- it probably just reflected how I was feeling that night. I didn't spend a week thinking about it. I knew at the time my answer made her feel badly, but the next day she seemed better and I was back on the gerbil wheel with work and the kids.

The point is, I said something dumb and insensitive, but it was in the moment, and if she asked me the next week, or maybe even a few hours later I might have said something different.

My point is, what your H said was stupid, but don't read into it that he only had a surface love for you and didn't value your whole being -- he simply could have said something stupid in the moment coming from a place of fear or insecurity. Don't let that taint your memory of the love you had with each other.

In terms of your plans going forward, not wanting to take him back unless you see some change and growth etc., I agree with all of that. You and I are on parallel paths there in many ways. I guess my point is that you can make that decision in spite of continued attraction. Attraction does not bind you to your course, it just makes dropping the rope more difficult, that's all.

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