14 Months Secret Separation: talking mediation

[adinva]

There's a lot to think about there, from both of you. Thank you both for posting on my thread.

CV, I think there's a lot missing from the thought you were mulling over, "Why is it that whenever people love something, they either have to own it or f--k it or consume it?" I feel like that's not true WHENEVER people love. I guess the thing that's missing is the other person. Some people love, and ML, and it's more than a f--k, to both of them. It's not ownership, it's giving. When it's good. I believe in that. In non-romantic terms, many people love nature without owning, consuming, or otherwise ruining it, and add to it and share it. I think your thought provoking phrase is a leading question because it leaves this out and therefore I believe is false. Examples, I love my dogs but I don't want more than 2 (or maybe 3?) because they'll be more than I can care for; I can go care for more at the shelter without sacrificing my 2's quality of life. I love my kids but I know I can't grasp them and own them; hard as it may be I know the loving thing to do is teach them and let them go. So where were we going with this? I forget...

It's been a long time since I loved someone and let them go so I'm not sure I can predict, but I believe I will not always love my H. I have somehow sort of shut off my feelings for him romantically so that I can live side by side with him as we discuss getting divorced. I found this process painful and I want a clean break so my kids and I can move on. I may or may not be able to say that "I'll always love him in some way" but I really kind of doubt it. Love is a choice, choose not to love for long enough and I suppose it will die. It is in my best interest to move on if he's moving on. I don't believe in soulmates, I gave him my all and he kind of crapped on it, and I've lost quite a bit of respect and admiration for him that I once had.

You said:

It seems obvious to me that your H still loves you, based on him still doing things around the house or trying to make sure you make wise investment decisions (aka. controlling.) It doesn't sound like he is being cruel or vindictive. It sounds like he has been unable to work out a way to enjoy/appreciate your company or living with you. This is not a reflection on you personally, just a reflection on the combination.

That's an interesting take on him, and one he'd beg to differ from. But I'll accept that he is being a very decent guy albeit he is splitting up our family. He is absolutely not being cruel or vindictive. And I totally agree that his inability to work out a way to be with me *as I am now* is a reflection on the combination of his and me, and I most of the time don't take it personally anymore. Sometimes I still do, because I feel like if anyone could be perfect for him it's me; however that's my perception and is not his.

You asked what am I trying to save. Well, when something in your family gets broken and threatens the existence of the intact family, you need to try to repair it. You shouldn't just say, well, I'll be better off next time, and throw in the towel. So I'm trying to create an environment as long as I can, where it is possible for us to repair what has been broken. That doesn't mean get back what was, because it's been broken for a long time. It can't be done without him though, and eventually I have to accept the reality that he doesn't want to and isn't going to. That could be when the divorce goes through, or sooner, or much later. It seems to be a different point for everyone.

I'm just giving it a lot of thought lately and my current thinking is that I'm going to respect his wishes and be done when the divorce is done. What I'm still holding onto: hope for our family. We still haven't even told the kids. All of this is still completely reversible.

Accuray, hey, thanks for posting too! Secret motivations = affair? maybe. I kind of doubt it. I have wondered if his old EA will turn up shortly after our D. However it's been pointed out to me that all the time he's spending here and then with his friend and friend's son would suggest that his AP is veeeerrrry understanding and low maintenance. He can't be seeing her much.

Maybe H's friend has been a cover for him to spend time with her. That seems like a long shot to me.

Maybe she's someone he works with. I don't know. He's so very hard to get along with and so fussy I can't imagine him seeing a future with another woman. But I don't follow these lines of thought much at all because there isn't a single thing I'd have done differently if there was or wasn't an OW. I've been working on being the better option no matter what: whether I'm up against a female, a male, complete solitude, or his job, or a MLC.

I really don't know if I agree with you about romantic love and chemistry. I've heard of women who were not physically attracted to a man until they got to know him and he was wonderful and charming and funny or some other combination that she fell in love with completely. I believe it can happen. I hope it can. I noticed during my marriage I was almost never attracted to any other man at all, not counting Roger Daltrey, but very attracted to my H.

On the converse, during this painful year I've been on A/Ds and have managed to sleep next to my H and occasionally see him walk around butt-naked and I don't feel a spark for him. We struggled with this for a while, first me LD then him LD and now I guess we're both LD, because our love tanks are completely empty. So attraction can be shut off. It's not completely outside my control. And I believe it can be nurtured and the flames fanned again.

I agree with you that you love a whole person, including your shared past and what you know about their history and how you feel about that, and your dreams of the future. I married a guy who was smart, funny, ambitious, naive, ready to take on the world. Who he became is more jaded and cynical, sees the glass half empty, angrier, but still sometimes that funny guy peeks out. Who he might be in 20 more years, who knows. I didn't marry a statue I expected we'd change back and forth and in unpredictable ways. But once he told me if I gained weight he'd not divorce me but we just wouldn't have sex much anymore...and I knew then that my H had a different kind of love for me, more of a surface love, that didn't go into my soul or value my whole being, and I was disappointed about that.

There are more parts to why I want back my WAS, but not if he remains undeserving, only if I see hope that he can somehow learn to be a whole partner to me. These include: the value of an intact family for my kids, the financial and physical aspect of the life we built together, which is more that the sum of what we'll have when we split it up in the D, my upbringing and belief in marriage and family as inherently valuable. I really don't want to be divorced. But I can't stop it.

Before, there were lots of times when I confided to a friend to vent and then felt better, but left my friend wondering why I wanted to stay in the marriage. I always felt better and was able to forgive and go on, and I felt that it was my duty and responsibility to stay and make the best of it. I honestly don't feel that way anymore. Enough else has been broken, that if I see an honorable out and no hope of improvement, I'll take the out.