This, my dear, is exactly the point! It is all relative based on what we are by nature. It is far easier for a fish to avoid conflict by running from it. The have fins that allow them to swim in directions we cannot and they are small enough to hide out in places where we sharks cannot reach them. We know we're huge and awkward (as SHARKS, not as women!) and thus we need to use our big chomper teeth to save us from harm. The lesson to be learned is that the fish run to quickly and we chomp too quickly! I think…good grief I need sleep!
Quote: It's more a long the lines of a Finding Nemo visual of Anchor talking to Mr. Ray on a shrink's couch and the visual was just too much for me. Sorry. I find humor in very odd places...
This is what I was thinking too while writing it!!! I was picturing both the sting ray school teacher and the little yellow fish who ends up fleeing the meeting as I referenced ‘fish’. Well, that mission was accomplished!
Quote: So I have to do this daily 12-step program for sharks so I don't do anything that takes any of those behaviors too far.
Can you re-cap what the 12-steps are please???? I think I need to start back at 1!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Quote: On his way out the door last January, he looked me in the eye and said, "I don't know why you're so upset: this is what you've wanted all along!"
While I admit that I wanted to change our M (and had not found DB/DR yet, sadly), I did NOT want the solution he offered.
Incredible - that's what MY H said to ME too - that I had wanted the separation all along!!
Quote: Although I will make a promise to myself not to get involved with another Aquarius guy again--fickle, fickle, fickle.
Oh my God! Again, ditto for my H! He's an Aquarius, and I don't even believe in astrology, but boy can he be FICKLE! My H is easily bored. Perhaps I should be amazed and grateful that *I* lasted as long as ten years!! NOTHING much else in his life has, really!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Meredith and I found the book helpful because it pointed things out that were not clear before. But oddly enough, the book's small title line is something about fixing the R. Neither of us found that fix in the book, which had us both perplexed and miffed.
As far as your H goes, his PA tendencies might have been secondary to his attachment issues. I'm not sure if the author had commented on this, but the PA people I see have underlying issues that trigger this tendency and the timing in which it manifests itself.
For example, in MC this past summer (yes, we did do a stint there), we discovered that Mr. Wonderful is really acting out his PA issues and anger toward his mother. Over time, I had taken on some of those motherly characteristics and he finally lumped me in with the enemy.
Our MC told me blankly that in order to shut down this pathway, I needed to stop any and all behaviors that were motherly. It led to a book recommendation that had me flipping my lid, but it served a purpose. I can thank that author for my inane reply to questions that I have no business answering: I don't know. What do you think?
It gives him the chance to make a decision and then take ownership of it. The deal is that I have to bow out of decisions that are not mine to make, so he makes them and can't blame me for controlling him, etc.
Does this make sense?
We really have come a long way.
I'm going to take a stab at your observation that your H believed that people in love never disagree. That's also something that Meredith and I have logged during our time here. The fact that we disagreed was bad enough, but how we disagreed pushed that fish right over the edge.
After some time dealing with this type of behavior, they decided that ALL confrontation was bad. It meant that they needed to avoid it at all cost, go along with what other people thought or decided and then live with the decision... ultimately backfiring because they were building up anger and resentment for allowing a "control freak" to call all the shots.
It totally sucks, I know. My H has some real unresolved issues with his mother... I think Meredith's does too. You mentioned to me a couple months ago that your H has an attachment dysfunction. I think they have much in common, and none of it emotionally healthy.
God, big hugs to you both.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yes, the mother seems to be a missing link in a lot of personalilty disorders. Something to remember as I parent my own son! And my MIL...well, she has enough problems to present all of us with quirky tendencies!
How 'bout the 12 steps to fish-sobriety????
Bruce, you are the best! Go YOU!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
This is taken from an AA website. You just substitute FISH for alcohol or CRAZYMAKING and you get the idea. Which is why Bruce brought a fish friend to meeting--it was Step 5 night and he needed to make amends...
Step 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable.
This step can encourage the addict to be extremely honest with himself. With this step the addict can carefully review his own psychosocial history to learn how there has been a direct relationship between his life's failures, problems, and disappointments and the use of substances. Euphoric recall of using experiences can be put into perspective. The addict can come to realize that his desire to use is as strong as any other instinct, and that his urge to control the use is an obsession which always succumbs to the biological drive to use.
When this step is taken as such, the addict can begin to understand his defenses of denial and rationalization that underlie his obsession to use. It is at this point that the obsession to control is lessened, and the addict is free to grow psychologically and spiritually.
Step 2: Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
This step can be taken to be about openness to a new way of living. To understand the sanity for which he is looking, the addict may reflect on its opposite which is the insanity of past experience with substances. Many an addict knows the insanity of the disease. As for example going out drinking fully knowledgeable of the pain the hangover the next day will bring. For example taking the first hit of crack knowing that it is going to lead from a brief euphoria to a downward attempt to get that feeling back which might last three days and cost several hundred dollars and be followed by days of fatigue and depression. When this notion of insanity sinks in, the addicts is better prepared to search for sanity. He may look to the outside world as well as his inner self for help, this is the core of step 3.
Step 3: Made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understood him.
Note that only a decision need be made in this step, the actual belief in God or a higher power is not required. For many this can bring further relief from a self-centered view of the world, one may start to accept themselves as part of nature and a greater order.
Step 4: made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
This can be seen as a generalized version of step one. The addict can do an honest self evaluation of his life. He examines his resentments towards others. He evaluates what maladaptive defenses he has used in many life situations.
Step 5: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
This, just like psychotherapy, can give the addict relief and insight by talking about the problems in his life.
Step 6: Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Now that the addict better recognizes his personality defects, he may be more motivated to change. For example, the addict can prepare himself to give up his obsessions, avoidance behaviors, and self centeredness. To many this may seem a simple task, but for some addicts it is giving up the maladaptive coping mechanisms that they have used most of their lives.
Step 7: Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings.
This step may be taken as a further renouncement of narcissism (self-centeredness) by using humility, one of the weakest attributes of the narcissist, to transcend the narcissism itself.
Step 8: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them.
Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Steps 8 and 9 can be executed by putting new found selflessness into action, thereby taking responsibility for past actions.
Step 11: Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
At this point the addict has achieved increased self honesty, insight, and selflessness. But addiction is a relapsing disease. The addict can regress back, and to avoid this he may continuously seek deeper self insight and understanding of how he is part of a greater scheme.
Step 12: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and practice these principles in all our affairs.
At this point the addict may have a somewhat more mature set of defenses. He has grown through a type of insight oriented therapy. Now he can continue to practice his new way of life, and he can share with others what he has learned. This is a form of altruism.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!! Can anyone recommend a good book on crazymaking? I think I do that...
Update - Called my husband (bad cuz I was trying not to), but he sounded really happy to see me and talked about our common hobby (on-line gaming). I suggested that we play together tonight and he seemed surprised (prolly because Wednesday is usually a day we visit, and usually I am all up his butt about it). I know the whole gameplay thing might sound a little weird to everybody, but it is an activity we share that we really enjoy, and a way for us to spend less pressured time together (kinda) when he's not at home.
I look at it as something he really enjoys, that he REALLY wants to share with me, and that, to me, is a good sign YAY!!!
Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Well, I don't know if there is a book on this subject, Myrrh.
I didn't even know what it was until Trish and I hashed this subject out here on the board back in October. Her H (Dr. K) is a crazymaker and we sort of clued each other in.
Typically, a crazymaker does something (usually drastic) to get their needs met. It often has roots in childhood, and fills a need that no longer exists later in life.
Don't worry about what others might think about your hobbies. Most of the folks here feel the same way.
So go forth and do things that you and your H enjoy doing together. That's the one hard & fast rule here: you do things that bring the two of you closer together. If that's your lifeline to your H, then it's good.
Happy gaming!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
nothing hurts worse than being the one that locks a thread...i hate when that happens...
*imagine billy crystal/christopher guest*
gosh, don't you just hate it when you stick a pebble in the fan to create your escape, and then the pebble becomes unlodged and then you get sucked into the fan?
Well, didn't really find a boook, but here's an okay link to an article about it... http://www.passionisland.us/romance_june.htm I do this - this is me to a "T". That example you gave, Betsey, of saying things like "maybe we should get divorce" - I have said that very thing, and then I wonder why H is confused about us... *sigh* Is crazymaking addictive?
(((Betsey)))
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
