Glad you're back, ces! Been thinking about you and your dilemma.
Have you ever thought of meditation? It can really help with the mind you describe. It has made a big difference for me and all it takes to get started is 10 minutes a day.
Or you could google contemplative prayer as that might be more helpful for you.
About the souvenirs, that's just what they are. Like corsages from proms or tickets from concerts. They remind her of something that was, if only in her mind. I wouldn't give those things too much power now. When you R, down the road you can ask that she get rid of them if she doesn't on her own. But for now, let sleeping dogs lie.
Have you talked here about what you think she got from the "relationship"? Usually it's excitement and the feeling that someone is risking something to be with you.
How can you add those things to your R?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
from what you wrote - the action of pushing down your resentment and anger and trying to get rid of it that way is what is holding you back.
you have to bring it out into the light of day and face it head on!
that's fighting the darkness - exposing your own demons and finding out what makes you fearful of them
i think your darkness is the wall between you and your wife - it stops you from being open and receptive and you possibly miss so much of what she may be giving in HER way,
our perspective of what the other is doing or saying is so influenced by what the picture of them is in our mind's eye.
your darkness, more than your emotions, is about the picture you have in your mind about where your wife is at and where you are at. you can change that.
change that, and you will change and the sitch will change
labug asked you a brilliant question - sit down and answer it, ok?
and to help you switch your focus (you are waaaay to focused on what your sitch IS, rather than what you would like it to be and how you can achieve that), can i invite you to drag your a$$ over to the goal setting thread and help you get started?
doing something different here - it's in YOUR control and setting some specific achievable short term goals may rest your mind a bit from the big picture
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Hey Bug, Funny that you mention "10 minutes". Our preacher is calling his current series "10 minute mystic" with a focus on setting aside 10 minutes to create spiritual disciplines.
What little W and I have talked about OM, she mentioned that she was lonely and OM was a good listener. Their friendship started while I was living away from the family for 7 months getting started in my new job. From there, it grew to flirting online and via txting. W says that is what her friend (OM's wife) caught them doing. That was 2 years ago and she's still holding on to some memory of him at least and there is always the possibility that they have actually continued their R. Just typing that stirs up anger in me that I have to figure out how to deal with and let go of.
Not sure how to add these things to our M. Our current R is practical and convenient and that seems to be all she is willing to give at this point (outside of sex once in a while for her benefit). I've not seen my IC since early June so I think I'll make an appointment. I need help sorting through all this right now. My tank is feeling empty and I need to fill it up again. I'm realizing a lot of my normal support activities have wained over the summer and I need to pick them back up.
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
I think forgiving OM as well as your wife (maybe again) is a great step for you. That has to be incredibly difficult.
My take on forgiveness either learned, experienced, or read is:
I think forgiving him/w does not let them off the responsibility of what they did, you are not condoning their actions, you are not saying they were not wrong.
This is for you. Your anger is not affecting him, its hurting you.
Forgiving him may be a way for you to change the story u have cause as long as u keep the story that he was wrong and shouldn't have done it you are going to feel like he needs to be punished more which is going to rationalize in your mind your anger towards him.
But you are the only one being abused with your anger, it does not get to him.
You are the only one expressing it and receiving it. Its time to stop abusing yourself with that anger, day after day, month after month. The bigger abuse is the abuse we play on ourselves so the one to forgive so we don't abuse ourselves anymore is to forgive ourselves for being angry.
And then we have to accept our own forgiveness.
Be right or be happy, right? As long as we hold the story that we are right, we will feel justified in expressing our abuse and we might be the ones that receive it. And also, if we hold the story we were wrong, we will feel justified in accepting abuse from someone else or ourselves.
In either case holding that story in the frame of right or wrong perpetuates the abuse cause it continues to look for someone to punish.
If we want to get out of this we have to let go of right and wrong and who deserves to be punished or blamed and how much.
The way we do that is forgiveness.
Not easy and not linear, at least in my experience.
I am realizing that the "wall" you mentioned between my W and me is a bigger deal than what I realized. I've been working through my feelings and managing them but my W and I are really not talking about our issues still. I think you hit the nail on the head.
We are more comfortable around each other. We talk and deal with the daily activities, we have physical contact, but underneath, all the issues are still there and have not been dealt with. I think that's why I was really wanting to get started on our MC. I saw it as the next step of progress.
As far as Bug's question, I mentioned above that W was lonely and the OM was a good listener. From there, the attraction entered in and made it a bit more exciting for them both. This also feeds into my frustration that we aren't really talking about how to heal. I have focused on listening when she does talk and am more aware to validate and acknowledge what she is saying. I think that has helped to increase our general conversations. We just haven't made the leap to the weighty topics. Of course, its not my timeline and I have to remember that. Its just that after 2 years, I'm wearing out.
OK, a goal. - Increase our conversations. I sent W a txt earlier (we tend to communicate pretty well this way). I suggested we set one night a week aside to sit and talk after the kids go to bed. no specific topics, just a chance to connect. That was over an hour ago and no response so far.
Another goal is to get back to my support activities. That means starting up my Friday morning coffee meetings with my buddies and I called my IC to talk this Wednesday.
Gotta run to a meeting. more later.
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Hey SAIS, I agree with all you put up there. I just sometimes need a reminder, so thanks much.
I am learning more about forgiveness being a process. I use to view it as an instance from which I moved forward differently. Now that I'm seeing it more as a process with my W, I don't fully understand how the process works for me. I need to spend more time thinking about this one.
I've always felt that I understood forgiveness and have practiced it in my life. I think the difference now is that I've never been hurt like this before. This is deeper and more impactful than I've ever experienced. And because the hurt is so much more, my effort to forgive requires more from me than I've ever had to give.
Somewhere in all of this I'm growing. I can be thankful for that.
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
ces - i don't know about other women, but if my h 'set up a specific time" every week to "talk" i would be really put off.
read your post, dear friend - it sounds so heavy and weighed down.
before you can lighten up the situation with her, YOU have to lighten up.
labug asked you what she got from OM. she got lightness, no heavy stuff - no let's talk at 8 pm every wednesday night.
she got a lot of laughs and ease and no "weighty topics"
i want to see your goals being about what you can do different to lighten yourself up. you need to fantasize about what it feels like to be light and easy with your wife. how can she lighten up with you when you feel so weighed down?
start only there - you have to beam the lightness out of yourself so it can reflect back onto you from others.
i'm setting goal #1 for you: i hope you'll try it for at least a few days
Every hour on the hour, I will stop what I am doing, close my eyes and be utterly delighted and in heaven that my beautiful loving wife is back in our home. I will create a picture in my head of my wife smiling openly and lovingly back at me, as I smile openly and lovingly back at her. I will do this for one entire minute, without thinking of ANYTHING negative about her or my sitch. I will just imagine her as I want her to be.
give it a shot - even if only for a couple of days. and if you're in a meeting - heck, do it for 2 mins after the meeting
we can't work towards something, when we can't feel what it's going to be like.
right now you are only reflecting and repeating what you think you have now. you have to change that picture to what you want
oh and if the image of you guys vacuously beaming at each other gets boring - you are allowed to substitute it with other positive images of thing you could be doing together.
hey and don't forget - sometimes try to imagine yourself in HER shoes where you guys are doing something together that you would imagine would make HER feel good. i think it will actually work as a mini-meditation, where as you visualize her with loving eyes, you will gain some insights into who she is now
you have to learn your wife again, ces - both of you have changed - you have to get to know each other from scratch.
((( ))) and while you're at it, figure out what your underlying fears and beliefs are about what is going on with you during this time. are you deep down afraid that it may not work out - do you think that every time things don't seem to be ?
what is your REAL view of her - do you think that she is capable of doing this with you and doing it well, or do you think that deep down you aren't sure about that?
here's a suggestion for goal #2: I will choose not to be worn out.
also - as you set your goals - don't forget to do the other parts - what specific action, and how I will feel...
you can do this ces - just shift your perspective a little - away from actually what is going on with her and towards what is going on with you.
your own introspection and growth MUST continue during this time
(((( )))) zig
ps - when's the last time you guys had a family pillow fight?
oh - and then maybe later you can start a mini one in the bedroom just with her that leads to laughing tickling and then ml. that's the kind of stuff you want to do with her first - light goofy stuff - face paint each other - so she can feel at ease with you...imagine her when she's at ease with you and create opportunities for that to happen. all the "problems" will be so much easier to deal with later.
or maybe as MWD tries to teach us - you'll leave those problems behind and go straight to the solutions
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Ces, I think you are on track with forgiving OM. After a relapse on my part last week, I came to the same realization. I have such anger and resentment towards him, it's difficult for me to hear W say anything about him without it causing a fight, and unfortunately, she still has work interactions with him.
I realized afterwards that it was holding me back, keeping me from being who I want to be, so that's my new goal. I've done good to see it, and to want to do it, but actually pulling the trigger is tough. I prayed about it, asked for strength, but I haven't been able to do it yet. I'm hoping a little more time is all I need....hopefully the same for you.
I'm hoping a little more time is all I need....hopefully the same for you.
sorry guys - 2 x 4 coming
^^^ is like saying finish the affair by january or i'm leaving.
give yourself time for the right things not the wrong things.
when you forgive OP, that energy is there to be used in a positive way towards rebuilding your marriage. why would you want to waste taking time over doing that when you could be doing other much more lucrative things?
Forgiveness is a conscious decision - it doesn't have a time line, it's now if you choose it to be, not some vague time in the future - that you can't foresee
someone posted to me on one of my threads about this - i'll go look for it and paste it here
is it more important to be angry and livid and crazy about OP or more important to focus on the now?
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
