Betsey- Thank you, friend, for your insight today. You were just the right amount of stern, yet caring. I have my head back on straight now. Thank you!!!
Wow, I take the day off, head to Costco and get the girls haircuts and this place has turned into a cooking class! My, my, I wish I had been working instead. It's taking me some time to get through things here. But I'll be back at the helm tomorrow.
Pamela, I'll head to your place to respond properly there.
Mr. W. called me 3x and left me messages before he took off for CA a couple hours ago. He didn't live up to my horoscope, so maybe when he gets back?!?!
Trish, you are Nemo. You need to stay away from dentists and sharks. Dr. K. does not have the self control in this 12 step program like we do... at least yet!
OK, Pirates of the Carribbean just started. Time to head downstairs.
See ya'll tomorrow!
Bruce, the Great White and fish sober since at least July 2003.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yoo hoo! It's me, Dame Edna... oh, no, it seems as though Bruce might have to head into a phone booth to change costumes. Or is that Underdog?
Well, I hope that 2004 brings some better news. I'm feeling very weird lately... which I guess I better journal here so I can take some beatings. What would my week be like if I didn't have fellow sharks to provide INTERVENTION!
D6 had a rather sleepless night, which made me have one too. This is not good for me for a variety of reasons... sleeplessness is not good for my mental acuity but it also provides ample time in the dark to dwell on things.
One thing that has me a bit fearful (no, terrified) is the day that Mr. W. tells me he wants to come home. I had a sort of 'dream' about this last night--I was somewhere in the middle between dreaming and being awake.
I realized that nearly all the changes I've made have been for myself. And I'm happy about that--truly.
But on the outside looking in, I can see that Mr. W. has not made as many. One of them that will need to be addressed is his lack of stress management skills.
I see him in a new job that is as stressful (in a different way than his previous project), and I'm sort of apprehensive that he's not changed enough to tackle this problem without someone capable and qualified to help him.
And I'm also afraid that it will lead to depression--a condition he vehemently denies exists for him. He's of the ilk that believes depression is something that happens to other people. He's sympathetic, but can't be that way if the person who has it is him.
I mean, how do you folks deal with that? I do believe that we can work on things, but I guess I'm not really sure if he thinks that the changing needs/needed to be done by me and only me.
I realize that I'm putting the cart before the horse. But I also know that his seemingly inane calls to me are probably made in the hopes of addressing the issue of working on things--only he continues to chicken out (or does he "fish out"?).
I have to find some DB way of making this issue critical--that is, I refuse to go back to the old M. It's a deal breaker for me, after 1+ year of separation and almost 18 months of no sex... I don't want to come to the table with a list of ultimatums but I think they really are.
Who has any advice for poor old Bruce? I really and truly want to maintain my fish sober status, so I'm counting on some input. I've really acquired a taste for Meredith's crock-pot plankton... and since I know I'm a nicer shark because of it, I don't want to go back to the old ways.
Any and all suggestions are appreciated.
Time to head back to my 12 step meeting. Anchor is chairing and Chum is co-chair today. It's time to award some blue ribbons to the sharks who have really worked on avoiding eating their fish friends....
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Well, what a very juicy question.... with several drops of blood per gallon I may add...
The answer is: there is no single answer. My personal take is that your H is not going to want to be back in the old M any more than you do (I know my H does not), and he is going to be willing to cooperate.
The catch is, of course, he is going to do it HIS way, not yours. And he would probably resent any ultimatums or orders.
So, what to do? What I am planning on doing is talking, a lot, but most importantly doing twice as much listening. Your H is a grown up man and will hopefully find a way to change.
When he decides to come back, talk to him and explain your fears. Do not judge him and do not diagnose him, and do not volunteer solutions. Just make it YOUR problem, as in: "I am concerned about how we manage stress and I fear that if we go back together we can backslide. How do you think we can do to avoid it..? That type of thing
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Ahhhhhh, the smell of blood. But I just had a plankton sandwich, so the need to feed is not here. Plus, my fish friend is in CA until later tonight, so it would serve no purpose to get myself all riled up for nothing.
Opt, I am taking close notes off of your test--I've never cheated, so this is a first. But believe me, I'm paying close attention.
I agree with you that Mr. W. doesn't want the same M either. Whew. I guess I'm just very apprehensive because he's written me several e-mail letters over the past year (the last was penned in November) about how M should not require work. About how he's paid to work and doesn't feel he should have to work at home.
WTF?
I'll bet he has put forth more effort and "work" in scheduling fun with Gary (Mr. Perpetual High School Student)...
And I really am intent on avoiding having anything spew from my mouth of multi-rowed teeth that resembles an ultimatum. That was the old Bruce, not the new improved one.
But I really feel that these issues are of critical mass. And that includes his propensity to sulk off alone in his cave with a six pack.
Even our MC has commented to him that his tendency to medicate in alcohol has got to be addressed. I know for sure that he's not been working on that one... And yes, this is his primary method of stress management.
Sure, I can go out and get drunk with him... don't laugh because this was exactly his suggestion at our first MC session last May. Well, guys, been there done that. And I have a closet full of the t-shirts. I've dealt with the myriad issues that compelled me to self medicate, and I no longer want to be that person.
Yes, I realize that I was getting over being that person when I met him. And I cut myself some slack because I was 26 years old and in counseling. In May, he also addressed being angry with me for not continuing to be the person I was when we met...
We'll get some resolution on this, I know. Because the signs are there that he is growing up. And Dory, the glass IS half full! It's half full because I say it is...
So, Little Blue, it seems like this journey is going to be bumpy and a little scary. I promise not to eat you if you let me cheat a little....
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Bruce! I would love to offer advice but this shark is in the same sea. The same questions have been plaguing me for a while. I started to go into it on my thread but got sidetracked.
I want my husband to come home, but I don’t want him to come home to the same marriage. And thus far, I have been the only one changing. I have changed in the hopes of changing our marriage, but in order for it to really really change…so does H. Who wants to tell him? Volunteers???
BUT, I think that you may be overlooking some small steps that Shark Chow (erm, Mr.Wonderful) has made in the right direction. I haven’t seen the phrase “I don’t care’ come out of your fingers in quite some time. THAT is a step in the positive direction. I have seen some contact on his end…even if it is in the car. Are these changes enough? F no! But they are a start.
I think a big step, huge even, would be to get his little fish tail into counseling with you. Let her be the bad guy to bring up the big issues and maybe mention out of the room that he has stress management problems.
Change is contagious….he’ll get the message!
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Quote: I have to find some DB way of making this issue critical--that is, I refuse to go back to the old M. It's a deal breaker for me, after 1+ year of separation and almost 18 months of no sex... I don't want to come to the table with a list of ultimatums but I think they really are.
You know, it's really hard for the WAS to come home. I was just having this discussion with my H this morning - how the depressed WAS gets that way both from their biochemical depression AND the way that interacts with them not getting their needs met in the marriage, or their MLC fears of aging, or their problems in their job, or whatever.The two things compound to make the depression worse, and the affair offers the "quick relief" of those brain chemicals associated with infatuation. When that wears off, the thought of returning home to that old R where they first got depressed is frightening - even more so because now they've totally screwed up what they did have in the R. It takes a lot of courage to face that. My H's comment a couple of days ago - "it's like surviving a plane crash. Who wants to go back and talk about it??".
The emphasis on a NEW R is good - he'll want that too. He'll also need to know that you CAN forgive him - that he won't be constantly nagged and reminded what a jerk he was. Unfortunately, entirely reasonable requests and boundaries on your part can feel like you haven't forgiven him. So no ultimatums. Take your time - there's plenty of time to discuss some of these things after your R is back on track. Go out with him without drinking - he may want your companionship, it doesn't have to mean you party hearty Just don't ignore his need for you to be his playmate - have fun with him. Growing up and becoming responsible doesn't have to mean giving up your playful side.
As to the depression - I told JSTX that I was going to work on a "stealth" approach to treating the unwilling depressed partner A little fish oil, B vitamins, special lights - who knows??
You have both provided enough INTERVENTION! today to keep me focused.
Meredith, I know you brought this issue to light on your thread last week--it actually struck a chord with me, but I was mulling this over. It wasn't until my parents told me about his thank you card that it perpetuated into more of an immediate concern.
If only he was knowledgeable on posting--I'd print out a copy of your letter and let it speak for itself.
Ellie--I do realize how hard it must be to eat some big helpings of crow and come home. I have forgiven him completely and feel no need to see him grovel or make a trip to the wailing wall to show me how sorry he is.
I know that this past year has been hell for both of us. No scorekeeping for good old Bruce.
And your H's comment about surviving a plane crash is something very vivid and understandable. It all boils down to coping mechanisms, doesn't it? Men often feel the need to suppress the memory, while it helps women to discuss stuff ad nauseum.
I'm not saying that I need to spend every waking hour discussing this train wreck. God knows, I want no more focus on it than it has already received.
But I'm also a pretty smart cookie in many ways. I realize that in order for healing to take place--for him as well as me--we must no longer pretend that this experience never happened. We must discuss what we've learned and how we're going to move on after the disaster.
I also realize through your posts here that if he is going to tell me that he wants to make things work, it implies that he has made the decision to work on things. Hence, why we've been stagnant for the past 13+ on that front. Though we did see MC from May-September. All was not in vain there, and I know we'll head back in once this happens.
I did compromise with him in MC to join him for a glass of scotch or wine or a beer periodically--but let him know that over indulgence was not going to happen. Hell, I could have written the book "Party Hearty" and put his antics to shame--having a cop for a dad gave me a license to do all sorts of stuff that he never dreamed of doing.
Somewhere along the road, that girl grew up. She was well on her way when the child with a disability showed up on her doorstep one day. Believe me, I chased that stork for a couple miles, yelling the entire way: "I THINK YOU MADE A MISTAKE--THIS ISN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN TO ME? I GAVE AT THE OFFICE--CAN YOU PLEASE CORRECT THIS PROBLEM?"
Well, reality check: life never happens the way you orchestrate it. And while I wish that I didn't have to deal with the reality that D6 brings to my life, I would never, ever trade places if I was given the chance now.
Hell, she put the FUN in DYSFUNCTIONAL! And as fast as Mr. Wonderful tries to take it out, she puts more back in.
I also realize that it took me a very long time to come to terms with my own grief. And I consider myself very self-attuned and enlightened. He has not had the benefits of that boot camp course--though he was offered, he ran away when the flyer came in the mail. I've really had to live by example, which I don't mind at all.
Someone has to do the job... and it might as well be me.
Thanks for your input, ladies. I appreciate it.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Just don't ignore his need for you to be his playmate - have fun with him. Growing up and becoming responsible doesn't have to mean giving up your playful side.