Lost and need some guidance on my next steps

[AlkalineThoughts]

While it seems like I've been on this crazy rollercoaster forever, It's been just a few months since my wife moved away.

More detailed story here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...759#Post2265759

But I'm finding myself in a bit of a dilemma now. As stated in my previous post, I've let W initiate almost all conversation since she moved out. Now we're at the point that she'll call about once a week and text every couple days. Conversations are almost always nice and positive, with the occasional big-time bump in the road. Most recently, when she asked Why I didn't fight for her to stay, I backslid. The ensuing conversation upset her greatly, and a follow up email the next day stated, among other things, that she didn't see us having much of a future and that there was too much damage between us to ever find happiness together... Although I'm focusing on "Believe nothing she says..." It still stings.

But my dilemma isn't necessarily with that part. It's with the part of the email which she states that one of the pieces of evidence for me not fighting for her is how she has to initiate "Every Phone Call".

Although this shows me that she has very much noticed the 180/LRT, I fear that by ignoring the fact that she pointed out how much this upset her, that I risk pushing her even further away by continuing along this path. The last thing I want is to push her further away and further into the arms of OM.

What do you think? She texted me today telling me she would call me later this week to discuss a few things and catch up (she's very excited to find out her sister is having a baby... telling me that she knows its a sign that her moving away was the right choice as she can help raise it while her sister is in school...)

Am I at the point that I can ask her for a "regularly scheduled" conversation or catch up session? Or will this be seen as pursuing?

[chatterbug]

Hi Alkaline.

Only a few months after she moved down to south Florida, she began to express her unhappiness with the area. She wasn't making any friends and dearly missed her friends in central Florida. Unfortunately, I brushed off these feelings as temporary, explaining she needed some time to adjust and make some new friends.

I am taking this is her first time ever moving away from central Florida? Usually it is at about 6 to 18 months that this happens. Takes time to work through. What you said to her was true. But she said her complaints with out offering any solutions. The words were fix this. Perhaps they should have been can you help me through this any suggestions. And you two could have joined clubs ... etc....

As she had a hard time finding a job, I was able to get her a job at the company I worked for (Small company with just 4 employees, one of which is my older brother). She took the job, and suddenly we were together 24 hours a day, every day.

That was very good of you and your brother to get her this job in such a difficult economic time.

In February of this year, I had the feeling that something was terribly off, but my wife has always been a very internal person, keeping her feelings to herself, especially if they are feelings that she knows would hurt me (as I tend to be hypersensitive at times). However, this feeling of dread got the best of me and I snooped through her cell phone. BIG mistake. I found some emails and pictures that she'd sent to an ex, and I was devastated.

No. You had thoughts that something was not right with the relationship. That she was hiding something and not giving her share to the marriage. So instead of going off the handle and accusing her of your thoughts. You verified and then confronted her on her poor boundaries with the ex boyfriend.

Back to the story: I confronted her about the emails (which stated that she was planning on moving back to central Florida and our marriage would depend on if I went too) and picture and it blew up. During that conversation, she told me we'd been finished for a long time, that she wasn't happy at all and thought there was too much damage to ever repair.

Typical rewrite of history to match the current poor boundaries and her choice to go sleep with another man.

I immediately started seeing an IC, as did she. I quickly started doing some 180s: She complained that I was too clingy and touchy-feely, always having to touch her whenever she'd walk by, and my therapist suggested I stop... And it worked wonders! She started IC and things started to seem like they were getting better quickly.

I will come back to this. As there is some importance here. And something that you and the IC missed.

A month later, she left for a visit to central Florida for the weekend, and when she returned, she told me she wanted to have a talk. During that conversation, she told me that although the last month of our relationship was the best we'd ever had, she was still so unhappy and couldn't stand to be in south Florida with me anymore. She told me she needed to find her independence, find out who she was, and think about things. I begged an pleaded, but her mind was made up. A few weeks later (May 2012) she packed up her car and left.

This is typical.... Rewrite. She had her hook up or set it up.


So now she packed her bags and left to find her independence in the city she knows surrounded by familiar friends, family , buildings and EX. Her words of independence = affair. They are that plain and simple.

Independence was something she was experiencing when she moved to Miami. She could have made some different choices for some free time. Such as joining a running club with other women, taking night school , art classes, volunteering and getting a part time job. The list is endless. Then she could have offered the other solution of heading up the turn pike to Mouseville every other weekend. That way you would be given the opportunity to get to know her family and friends.

I know I know. Honest suggestions and solutions to her problem. But I think the real problem was that she was not acting like she was involved in a marriage so she reached out to the old boyfriend and saw he was game.

And around this time she was complaining about not finding work. But how active was she looking? And you worked and offered a solution to her problem.

So with that problem resolved..... She switched it to were spending too much time together. Yet offered no solutions about getting some hobbies or studies or sports to gain some independence.

See its horsehockey.

Look at it this way.

She quit a job in a small company that you and your brother work at after being there for a short while. No doubt this looks bad. Because it is. She just quit and left. After complaining that she could not find any jobs.

Does she have a job in CF ? How is she paying for her life there ? I hope the words are not "I am giving her money"

She said she wanted independence. Yes it was independence to break her vows. Nothing more nothing less.

She complained that you are too affectionate. I am guessing that you are always like this. So this is something she decided was fine when she married you as I am guessing it was not an issue before the marriage. She told you that your primary love language [censored] and she wants you to change it or else.

Do you see the issue here. It should have you been saying. Wife. I hear what your saying on always touching you. But this is how I like to express my love and desire for you. For it is important for me to make sure you know this. It helps with our marriage when I can freely express my primary love language to you. So I would like you to work with me on this as it is good for the marriage and I will work with you on your primary love language and show my love for you that way as well.

Do you see what I am saying here.


HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = YOU CHANGE SOLUTION

HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = EA/PA

VS.

HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.

HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE AND OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.

HER PROBLEM = SHE WORKS TO RESOLVE HER ISSUE

MY PROBLEM = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.

MY PROBLEM = I WORKS TO RESOLVE MY ISSUE


It's like what she is saying now.

You did not fight to make me stay.

How could you? It is a statement with only one outcome. You lose.

If you did fight to make her stay. She would have been complaining that she needs independence , you too controlling , always around... opps..... Oh yea thats right she did this already.

How do you think she would have liked it if you said a very truthful statement to her.

Wife you are always complaining about everything to me. Yet you never offer any solutions and just expect me to change. This is not how I envision our marriage to work. I am not here to fix all your issues. Work with you and support you yes.

What do you think she would have said to that?



I think you better not make the mistake of following your cheating wife to CF.

Stay with your job and learn to gain some confidence. I would pick up a sport or a hobby where you will regain your self esteem.

You see. You are living in Fl. So you need to think this long term. As you know about life long alimony.

This is the path you are setting up.

You are 18 months into your marriage.

This current behaviour will most likely go on for at least a year or two while she knows you are there waiting for her.

So that puts you at 4 years.

Then she comes back to work on it ( I mean work on you to change to her liking ) And not 100% committed to the marriage
This takes 2 to 5 years.

So your at 6 to 9 years.

Then out of the blue you get the talk.

You limbo for a few years.

Then D and its payments for life.


But you do have some other choices as well.


You have the choice to say D. Move on. Which is an option here based on her actions and poor choices.

If it was me I would follow the next option.

You continue to work on yourself. Build your self esteem. Be honest with your brother on why your wife quit her job and moved back to the mouse. His support will help you through these tough times. Especially when your work slides. He can call you out on it and support you on it.

Really think about the woman you married. Not how you envision she is. How she really is. Her strengths and flaws. You know she is the person to drop everything , hurt you to the core , sleep with another man , and then when you confront she will say it was your fault. You know she complains about everything. You know she does not take ownership for her issues. You know she is not honest with you and will string you along. Then she expects you to wait it out and then win her heart back ( Change to her liking ) These are part of who she is. You need to wrap your head around this. And truly decide if this is something you can live with and overcome.

But to do that means strong boundaries. So you need to learn them. They need to be communicated.

You need to learn to communicate your issues with solutions offered. If you have no solution then you need to work on and resolve your issue.

The line above was a real 180. That will make you a better man.

You need to learn that expressing your love languages to your wife was an appropriate thing to do. You need to be comfortable with who you are and how you express love. You need to teach and learn to improve your love ( NOT NOW.... LATER ) This is a real 180.

You need to realize that your wife dumped you and your family. That it is absolutely absurd for you to be chasing her , when she left you to try another guy out for awhile.

You see you are not doing a 180/LRT because you have not taken the time to address your problems.

You are always available when she calls. You answer her hook R talks. Some are set up to justify her poor choices. Some are set up to determine if your still hanging around in limbo.

Trust me on this. You are doing nothing to push her to the OM. That is all her choices.

He made me do that with being needy... or he made me do that because he did not answer my email.

Same outcome. You had nothing to do with it.

This is how your wife thinks.

If I was you. I would stop with any money payments to her if they are happening.

I would work on communication issues with the IC and work on solutions to rebuild your self esteem and why you felt it was necessary to not have a voice in your marriage. And why the IC feels that this is an appropriate response to being cheated on.

Next R talk about fighting for her to stay I would tell the wife that I will not court you back into the marriage. She quit her job , her marriage , moved 400 miles to break her vows. I will no longer have these R talks with you while you treat me as an option. I am removing myself from this. Good night.

Then I would go dark. Start a parallel path.

Path one would be plan D. I would set this all up.

Path two would be self improvement. Self Esteem. New hobbies. Better shape. Exercise. Join a running club or what ever sport you like. Read , do what ever... GAL ... Get more involved in church. What ever you like to do. Or something you thought about.

I would work with IC on learning communication skills and solution oriented problem solving. Learn how to not be Mr. fix it. I would read MEN self help books and join some of their forums. Communicate with MEN on issues and resolutions.

I would look at my relationship with my wife. Its strenghts and faults. Hers and yours.

I would write them out and see which ones you can work on to make you a better man. This is 180's

I would review her complaints about the marriage , you and determine which are just smoke and which are real. Which are her trying to force you to change and which are ones you should work on to improve yourself as a man.

I would make myself more of a mystery with my wife at this time in the marriage. I would stop meeting her EN's and being an option. I would not make myself available for when she calls. For I would be working on my GAL. So if she calls when I am GAL'ing I would not answer. And send a text later.... Was out , could not respond, what's up?

Emails. I would respond after 24 hours. Some that are not important I would not respond to at all.

I would always start every conversation with her name. And every time I had an important point to say. I would start it with her name.

I would let her truly explore the path she has walked down without any interference.

I would begin to move on from the spot you are in now.

I would address this :

HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = YOU CHANGE SOLUTION

HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = EA/PA

VS.

HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.

HER PROBLEM = COMMUNICATE AND OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.

HER PROBLEM = SHE WORKS TO RESOLVE HER ISSUE

MY PROBLEM = YOU COMMUNICATE , OFFER SOLUTION BOTH WORK TO RESOLVE IT.

MY PROBLEM = I WORKS TO RESOLVE MY ISSUE


I would decide if she is worth being with.

I would always be respectful and polite.



A ton to think over. And you have not given enough info to know you. So think all this over. And respond back with what your thoughts are. Why you think somethings are uncomfortable and why you think some things are comfortable.

This will help you regain your voice. Communicating with others on this site.

Think and then think again.

Formulate your plans and then follow them.

I have offered some good ground work to frame around.

Take your time over the next week to read the stories of those who reply to you. Or go seek out some others and post to them. You need a mixture of voices. Some who have travelled the path you are on. Some who are at the same place.

Then find your voice and communicate here so people can better learn you and help you out of the limbo that you are setting up.

[chatterbug]

Wow that was a long post...

[AlkalineThoughts]

Thanks so much for the reply! I'll try to shine a bit more light via responses to your statements:

I am taking this is her first time ever moving away from central Florida? Usually it is at about 6 to 18 months that this happens. Takes time to work through. What you said to her was true. But she said her complaints with out offering any solutions. The words were fix this. Perhaps they should have been can you help me through this any suggestions. And you two could have joined clubs ... etc....

No, this isn't her first time moving away from the mouse. She was a navy brat, moving her whole childhood... Then she moved to Georgia a couple years after high school, stayed a few years before moving back to the mouse and then quickly down to South Florida with me.

I did suggest clubs etc, but that never really happened... She's admitted that she could have tried harder, but she just felt that she wouldn't make friends as close as the ones she left behind.

That was very good of you and your brother to get her this job in such a difficult economic time.

It was a simple decision really, as she is fantastic at what she does (marketing)

No. You had thoughts that something was not right with the relationship. That she was hiding something and not giving her share to the marriage. So instead of going off the handle and accusing her of your thoughts. You verified and then confronted her on her poor boundaries with the ex boyfriend.

While I understand what you're saying here, the fact that I snooped made me feel terrible about myself and is a trait that I don't want to deal with. While I did find things I didn't want to, I could have gone about it a better way without compromising myself.

Typical rewrite of history to match the current poor boundaries and her choice to go sleep with another man. [\quote]

Yup, I'm learning that.

[quote=chatterbug]This is typical.... Rewrite. She had her hook up or set it up.

So now she packed her bags and left to find her independence in the city she knows surrounded by familiar friends, family , buildings and EX. Her words of independence = affair. They are that plain and simple.

While OM certainly had something to do with it, I think it's a fallacy to place all of her quest for self-identity on an affair. But I can understand what you're saying.

Independence was something she was experiencing when she moved to Miami. She could have made some different choices for some free time. Such as joining a running club with other women, taking night school , art classes, volunteering and getting a part time job. The list is endless. Then she could have offered the other solution of heading up the turn pike to Mouseville every other weekend. That way you would be given the opportunity to get to know her family and friends.

Strangely enough, she did go up to see the mouse about once or twice a month, sometimes with me sometimes without. As most of my family is also in Mouse-ville, we made frequent trips up there. I became close with many of her friends and her family as well. She did complain sometimes that most of the times that I went with her to mouseville, my family monopolized our time (I have a very large and very close family) and she didn't feel she got enough time to hang with her friends or sister... so she started heading up there on her own once in a while, which I wholeheartedly supported.

And around this time she was complaining about not finding work. But how active was she looking? And you worked and offered a solution to her problem.

Honestly, I'm sure she wasn't looking TOO hard, but when she'd suggest bartending or waiting tables, I told her to keep looking instead, as I know she would have been miserable doing those things.

So with that problem resolved..... She switched it to were spending too much time together. Yet offered no solutions about getting some hobbies or studies or sports to gain some independence.

I agree, its horsehockey.

She quit a job in a small company that you and your brother work at after being there for a short while. No doubt this looks bad. Because it is. She just quit and left. After complaining that she could not find any jobs.

Well I'd left the company a few months before, and she, rightfully so, was extremely uncomfortable with us going through what we were going through... having to work closely with my brother every day (as there are only three people in that office). Plus, her boss was pushing her out the door, so if she hadn't "quit" she would have been let go in a few weeks time. I know this for sure. I know this sounds like justification, but it's clarification.

Does she have a job in CF ? How is she paying for her life there ? I hope the words are not "I am giving her money"

She has a part time, work from home job in CF (working for a very small marketing company which I own, doing data-mining work. She needs 0 supervision for the position and we almost never have to discuss work at all. Maybe once in the last 6 months) I do not send her any money, and in all honesty she wouldn't accept it if I did. She is very strong-willed in that way. She's gone so far as to try to send me money for the tolls that she's incurred on our shared E-pass.

She complained that you are too affectionate. I am guessing that you are always like this. So this is something she decided was fine when she married you as I am guessing it was not an issue before the marriage. She told you that your primary love language [censored] and she wants you to change it or else.

Yes, I've always been very affectionate, but it got to the point of being smothering, by my own admission (in retrospect of course). The further I felt her pulling away, the more affectionate I got, the more I touched her or hugged her or kissed her... And that continued to drive her away. I was trying to fill a hole in her heart with affection, and it was only making the hole more visible, as no matter how much affection I give her, I can't replace having other friends, hobbies, direction in life, a career she can be proud of... etc...

Do you see the issue here. It should have you been saying. Wife. I hear what your saying on always touching you. But this is how I like to express my love and desire for you. For it is important for me to make sure you know this. It helps with our marriage when I can freely express my primary love language to you. So I would like you to work with me on this as it is good for the marriage and I will work with you on your primary love language and show my love for you that way as well.

Fantastic advice that, if we get through this fog together, I will certainly bring up.. Might even have to read exactly what you've written!

It's like what she is saying now.

You did not fight to make me stay.

How could you? It is a statement with only one outcome. You lose.

Almost EXACTLY what IC said to me. She put me in a double-bind where I had no correct move to make.

How do you think she would have liked it if you said a very truthful statement to her.

Wife you are always complaining about everything to me. Yet you never offer any solutions and just expect me to change. This is not how I envision our marriage to work. I am not here to fix all your issues. Work with you and support you yes.

What do you think she would have said to that?

As tough as this sounds to admit, I think she would have been receptive to it... But I never expressed it in such an explicit way...

I think you better not make the mistake of following your cheating wife to CF.

Stay with your job and learn to gain some confidence. I would pick up a sport or a hobby where you will regain your self esteem.

I will not be chasing her to the Mouse. I've made that decision, that the only way I move up there is if things between us improve dramatically. That means no more OM, an admission of OM, frank talks about what went wrong and plans for how we can work on them... But these are all things SHE will have to bring to the table. I won't ask for any of this.

You have the choice to say D. Move on. Which is an option here based on her actions and poor choices.

Won't be pursing this option, as I know I have plenty of work on myself to do before I'd even consider this.

You continue to work on yourself. Build your self esteem. Be honest with your brother on why your wife quit her job and moved back to the mouse. His support will help you through these tough times. Especially when your work slides. He can call you out on it and support you on it.

Exactly my plan. Continue GAL, building self-esteem etc. W was honest with my brother as to why she left, and he understood and agreed with her. Even told her that they might be able to work something out that she works remotely from the Mouse, but she's not comfortable doing that right now... Plus the pay would be so dramatically reduced that it would make little sense.

Other good news on this front, my "new" job and boss are aware of my situation and are completely supportive of when I need to take off early to see IC, work from home in the mornings or afternoons or when my work slips a bit. It rarely does.

Really think about the woman you married. Not how you envision she is. How she really is. Her strengths and flaws. You know she is the person to drop everything , hurt you to the core , sleep with another man , and then when you confront she will say it was your fault. You know she complains about everything. You know she does not take ownership for her issues. You know she is not honest with you and will string you along. Then she expects you to wait it out and then win her heart back ( Change to her liking ) These are part of who she is. You need to wrap your head around this. And truly decide if this is something you can live with and overcome.

Thanks for this! I've done a good deal of soul searching on this. As bad as it sounds, especially coming 100% from my perspective, she gave me plenty of signs of her unhappiness, is the first to admit she needs to work on a lot of things (NOW she is at least).

So while you're right on many of your assertions, I also know that she's not the person she's become over the last few months. No, she's far from perfect, as we all are, but I know that I can and will work through this so long as she will do 50% of the work. I won't change WHO I am, but I will change the things I don't like about myself, the things that need changing, and will compromise on what I need to... but only compromise... not give in, not change myself.

But to do that means strong boundaries. So you need to learn them. They need to be communicated.

You need to learn to communicate your issues with solutions offered. If you have no solution then you need to work on and resolve your issue.

This is very helpful advice.

You need to realize that your wife dumped you and your family. That it is absolutely absurd for you to be chasing her , when she left you to try another guy out for awhile.

Lesson learned...or in the process of being learned!

You are always available when she calls. You answer her hook R talks. Some are set up to justify her poor choices. Some are set up to determine if your still hanging around in limbo.

True... But it's really tough to not talk to her, especially when 90% of the time the conversations are light-hearted and sweet with no R talk. Plus, we have some living situation related issues we need to talk about soon... I'll just have to be more vigilant about not getting into any R talk with her until the living-situation stuff is worked out.

If I was you. I would stop with any money payments to her if they are happening.

They're not

I would work on communication issues with the IC and work on solutions to rebuild your self esteem and why you felt it was necessary to not have a voice in your marriage. And why the IC feels that this is an appropriate response to being cheated on.

All things we work on!

Next R talk about fighting for her to stay I would tell the wife that I will not court you back into the marriage. She quit her job , her marriage , moved 400 miles to break her vows. I will no longer have these R talks with you while you treat me as an option. I am removing myself from this. Good night.

Good advice...

Path two would be self improvement. Self Esteem. New hobbies. Better shape. Exercise. Join a running club or what ever sport you like. Read , do what ever... GAL ... Get more involved in church. What ever you like to do. Or something you thought about.

Already started down this path, thankfully. Exercising every day, lost a ton of weight and I'm starting to get good muscle definition! Started hanging out with some new friends, going out a little more often, taking the dog on tons of walks, meeting new people as often as I can... Still spend a lot of time alone, but I'm enjoying it more... Writing a ton...

I would work with IC on learning communication skills and solution oriented problem solving. Learn how to not be Mr. fix it. I would read MEN self help books and join some of their forums. Communicate with MEN on issues and resolutions.

IC is, thankfully, extremely action and solution oriented, and is helping to not be Mr. Fix It.

I would look at my relationship with my wife. Its strenghts and faults. Hers and yours.

I would write them out and see which ones you can work on to make you a better man. This is 180's

I would review her complaints about the marriage , you and determine which are just smoke and which are real. Which are her trying to force you to change and which are ones you should work on to improve yourself as a man.

Will do this tonight!

I would make myself more of a mystery with my wife at this time in the marriage. I would stop meeting her EN's and being an option. I would not make myself available for when she calls. For I would be working on my GAL. So if she calls when I am GAL'ing I would not answer. And send a text later.... Was out , could not respond, what's up?

Emails. I would respond after 24 hours. Some that are not important I would not respond to at all.

Great advice!

I would always start every conversation with her name. And every time I had an important point to say. I would start it with her name.

I started doing this a couple weeks ago, and I can't tell you why. I'm glad to hear someone else say it's a good idea!

I would decide if she is worth being with.

I've made that decision, and it's yes. Hence my presence on these boards and the hard work i'm willing to do on myself.

I have offered some good ground work to frame around.

Yes you have, and I am eternally grateful for this! I will be re-reading this post and keep reading other posts, making action plans and sticking to them. I'll keep reaching out to this wonderful community for support, ideas, encouragement, and a good kick in the @ss once in a while!

Thanks again Chatterbug. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you!

And I'm looking forward to being off moderation!

[AlkalineThoughts]

Update Today... Apologies if this is a bit discombobulated, but as I'm new to the boards and still on moderation, a flood of updates should be coming...

I must admit I'm not having a good day today at all, but it doesn't make much sense. Last night W called me to catch up and we ended up talking for about two hours. The conversation was pretty fantastic, as they normally are these days. There was plenty of small talk, catching up and just general nice things happening.

Before the phone call (as she told me on Sunday night that she'd be calling on Monday) I wrote down a list of goals for the conversation. Here they are along with my grades:

1. Don't React Negatively if something trying comes up: 100%
2. Keep the conversation light: 75% (toward the end of the conversation, I got a little bit sappy letting her know that "I have my hopes and goals for the future" but for the most part, I feel I did a good job here)
3. No R Talk: 90% (Attributing the hopes and goals talk above as a bit of R talk)
4. Keep the Conversation in the present and future, not the past: 95%
5. Feel good about the conversation when we hang up: 50% (as will become evident through the rest of this post)
6. Don't Interrupt any of her stories or conversations: 100%
7. Hear her laugh: Honestly can't remember if she laughed, so 0%
8. Don't get hooked into an argument or disagreement: 100%
9. Keep the focus on her: 75% as when she asked direct questions about me and my life, I answered in some generalities and some specifics
10. End the Conversation First: 0% She ended the conversation at 11:00 at night saying she needed to go to bed... I'd lost track of time as the conversation was going so well and there didn't seem to be any lulls...

So I accomplished MOST of what I'd set out to do, thus should feel good right? Well today I'm just very depressed I guess. When we have such good, mostly light conversations, it makes me realize how much I miss her. All my GAL and no initiation of contact is going well (or so I think) but nice conversations like the last one we had can make me pretty sad.

I can't see myself "Going Dark" because I want to keep the positive changes in our "relationship" going. I think that when we talk like we did, when I'm able to be a friend and when she hears from me, these are all good things. I think she's at least starting to see the changes I've made are more permanent than she probably believed at first... But at the same time, I don't want to give the impression that I'm just waiting around for her to come back... How do I balance that out?

Mostly, I guess I'm in need of words of encouragement, advice, and someone to remind me that this is a marathon, not a sprint... that IF she's involved in an A (which I'm pretty sure she is, but not 100% as she's never openly admitted to such) I need to remember that this is going to be an even longer marathon, and I want someone to tell me that it's not as hopeless as it seems to be this morning... Thanks guys!

[AlkalineThoughts]

Today's Update:

Went to see IC on Wednesday, or the day after my last post on this thread, and discussed everything from that post... Leaving the IC's office is always a good thing, as he really helps me keep my perspective on things.

We discussed how affected I get when we have these good conversations (how the next day I'm usually so sad) and he helped me realize how normal that was... how after such a good conversation and sharing happiness with WAW, the next day is naturally going to be hard as her absence from my life will be amplified. But so long as I can focus on GAL, the positive steps that I'M making in my life, and the next step I will take to better myself, I'll be just fine... With or without her.

Sometimes it's so easy to focus on how far away we seem, on all the negatives of the situation, on all the little phrases or words that seem to be signaling an end... Then I lose focus on the POSITIVE things: Like the fact that she DID randomly email me at 1:00 in the morning last week to tell me she heard a song on the radio that reminded her of me, like the fact that she DOES want to keep communications with me open by texting every few days or sending those random emails, or calling once in a while... If she really knew it was over or she was completely checked out of the relationship, I find it hard to believe these things would continue...

But at the same time, I have to make sure I keep the whole "NO EXPECTATIONS" thing going, keep focusing on GAL and finding a bit more of my own happiness every day. I need to keep a PMA as much as I can, continue focusing on the positives, and keep coming back here to listen to all your wonderful advice and read your stories.

Thank god for this forum! And thanks for reading!

[roughenough]

Alkaline-
Thanks for reading my sitch. I appreciate your support. You seem to be on the right track. Your getting some great input. And your right, Acc's helped me out a ton!!! Hang in there my friend.

[Cadet]

I think she's at least starting to see the changes I've made are more permanent than she probably believed at first...

The changes you make are for YOU not to win her back!
They are for you to be the BEST YOU can be.

Mostly, I guess I'm in need of words of encouragement, advice, and someone to remind me that this is a marathon, not a sprint... that IF she's involved in an A (which I'm pretty sure she is, but not 100% as she's never openly admitted to such) I need to remember that this is going to be an even longer marathon, and I want someone to tell me that it's not as hopeless as it seems to be this morning

There can always be HOPE as long as YOU want to keep that alive.
That is why we detach and take our love and put it away so that there is some left later after the marathon, to take out and revivie the relationship.
Just have NO EXPECTATIONS, they are not the same thing.

You do not have to go DARK, however you must DETACH!
That is the keystone to all of this.
Going DARK may help you DETACH, but I will leave that up to YOU.

You should get off of moderation soon, KEEP POSTING.

[AlkalineThoughts]

The changes you make are for YOU not to win her back!
They are for you to be the BEST YOU can be.

I absolutely understand this. The changes I'm making ARE for me, and ARE to continue becoming the best ME I can be. I was commenting on how I though, as a byproduct, she may be seeing it... But as I'll state later... I can use some help detaching here.

There can always be HOPE as long as YOU want to keep that alive.
That is why we detach and take our love and put it away so that there is some left later after the marathon, to take out and revivie the relationship.
Just have NO EXPECTATIONS, they are not the same thing.

You do not have to go DARK, however you must DETACH!
That is the keystone to all of this.
Going DARK may help you DETACH, but I will leave that up to YOU.

I thank you very much for this. I think the toughest thing I'm going through right now is figuring out how to keep these positive communications going without letting them effect me as much as they can sometimes.

I love talking to W, and for the most part, our conversations are positive. Very little to no R talk, she doesn't lash out or say mean things, and the talks are generally quite friendly and light.

I'll try to word this in the proper way, but I'm not sure it will work: I guess what's so tough is hearing her general happy tone, hearing all the things she's excited about in her "new" life, and hearing her say how happy she is can get me down. (Hence my need to learn to detach!!!) Don't get me wrong, I want W to be happy in whatever she does in her life. And I want to continue to be a friend to her. I just want to get rid of the empty feeling that I get after these conversations... when I realize her absence from my day-to-day life so vividly.

Sometimes it drives me crazy that she isn't bringing up "what's next". She's never said a word about getting a D, but she's also made it clear she has plans for the foreseeable future that don't involve me. While I know that's to be expected, it stings some days.

But at the same time, I realize that the fact that she's regularly speaking with me (She calls me about once a week, and normally texts about once a week or so, with the occasional email thrown in... most times they have a definite reason, but a couple weeks back she just wanted to let me know she heard a song on the radio that reminded her of us... both back when we lived together and again now) is a positive thing... Something that many people on these boards would be thrilled to have happen. I believe that by continuing to GAL, work on my 180s and learning to DETACH, I'll be on the right path for my life... It's just, again, the DETACH thing I'm having a hard time with...

I believe "Going Dark" will have a detrimental effect on the positive signs of progress, so I would love some advice on how to better DETACH without going dark.

Or am I asking for the impossible? I can't imagine I am... And maybe I just need to keep chanting "Patience" to myself... To allow things to run their course... To keep remembering I can do NOTHING to change HER mind or change HER actions... I can only work on me, look toward the future, and keep hoping that one day I will achieve the major goal in my life...

Sorry for the long post, but thanks for reading!

[9600]

I believe "Going Dark" will have a detrimental effect on the positive signs of progress, so I would love some advice on how to better DETACH without going dark.

I am struggling with this too. I don't have much wisdom to offer, but you seem to be succeeding in your efforts. Things are better than they were, right? If so, you're on the right track. You know your W and situation better than anyone here. Keep up the good work.

Maybe this will help.. DETACHing is a MINDSET that you have. GOING DARK is a technique to achieve that mindset. Going dark may help you because you don't allow your W in -- therefore you don't experience the withdrawal afterward. It's something you do to help yourself.

Will it help the situation with your wife? Only as far as it helps YOU deal with it -- because you're part of the situation too.