One thing that those who recognize and understand about transitions, is that is something one does... "alone"... they may or may not be in a R or M... what they DO... is internal work to discover or re-discover... or re-make... themselves...
MLC OTOH, is almost synonymous with both... "mid life"... and marriage situations...
There's triggers (and looking at transitions, there are ALSO triggers)... and somehow the situation goes from transition to crises. A transition may not be "spotted" so readily... once its a crises, it already too late to back off and prevent it from becoming a crises.
Perhaps... a theory, if you will... the transitions become a crises... perhaps in part... perhaps in LARGE part... that the person in transition begins to feel smothered by the LBS, when all the WAS wants... is space. ie. The LBS recognizes there's a problem and begins to focus on the WAS and the WAS is really just trying to work out their transition and the LBS is interfering... thus, the crises...
So what does that have to do with DBing?
Well, as it is a crises of a particular nature, backing off (giving space, end pursuit / smothering) appears to help.
Second, detaching is important as the LBS needs to understand... it's NOT personal...
Third, GAL helps the LBS continue to live a full life, regardless of the "state" of the MLCer... and / or... the M... and / or any possible future of the two, together or separate...
Doing these things just MAY help the MLCer de-escalate the crises to something a little more... manageable... the transition will still take time... just maybe... not as much time as a MLC...
There's more, I just wanted to put the above "out there" as food for thought.
I too have heard it said that if someone self-proclaims themselves to be in MLC, then they probably are NOT in MLC.
What if it's not a MLC, but this person decided that they have been too cautious all of their life and want to live with more adventure and less restrictions. I didn't say it has to encompass cheating.
I left the reference to Starsky's post as I believe this keeps the context.
I think that's a really good question, DLS.
I want to first take some responsibility of pointing out my own belief that MLC is a superset of a life transition. I'm sure others have stated that belief before me, I just know that I've been focusing on that a lot, especially more recently...
I would submit that if someone wants to try sky diving, we'd not be looking at that as someone taking on a more adventurous lifestyle. As you indicate though, if someone is moving from a more "safe" life to a more adventurous life... we'd probably be looking at a transition.
A transition like this may or may not "stick". The person may decide a life of adventure isn't for them and revert back to their "norm". That is still a transition as they re-discover themselves.
In the above case, a LBS would probably best just get out of the way and let the spouse figure out what they want.
How one might differentiate the above from transition to MLC, would be if a lot of the activities were either life threatening and / or extremely spontaneous. ie. Not well thought out, perhaps even irrational, as in risking monetary ruin and the well being and welfare of their nuclear family.
In the above case, the LBS would certainly want to remove themselves and any children from harms way, while still operating in a non-interfering way, in regards to the MLCer.
And again, as described by MWD in regards to a "vanilla" WAS, the WAS is not necessarily re-inventing themselves. A WAS is rather leaving a sitch which they may feel is harmful for them or otherwise no longer serving them and is not generally because they want to change who they are, as a person.
That would be one of the distinctions between a WAS and MLC / transition. The purpose appears quite different.
Perhaps... a theory, if you will... the transitions become a crises... perhaps in part... perhaps in LARGE part... that the person in transition begins to feel smothered by the LBS, when all the WAS wants... is space.
I think this is pretty accurate. The challenge is, the crisis usually carries with it things that are destructive to the marriage (infidelity, squandering of marital assets, even poor parenting). How to effectively allow the time and space for such a "transition," without allowing/enabling the destructive behavior that often accompanies it?
How one might differentiate the above from transition to MLC, would be if a lot of the activities were either life threatening and / or extremely spontaneous. ie. Not well thought out, perhaps even irrational, as in risking monetary ruin and the well being and welfare of their nuclear family.
In the above case, the LBS would certainly want to remove themselves and any children from harms way, while still operating in a non-interfering way, in regards to the MLCer.
Uhh -- I see you addressed this already. Didn't read this before I posted the above, KD.
Reasonable people can (and do) disagree about how to best handle it when the wanderlusting spouse begins to act destructively to the family (personally, I will ALWAYS err on the side of INTERFERING LIKE CRAZY with infidelity ), but I think you paint the distinctions quite accurately.
Starsky, Man you hit the nail on the head. Squandering of marital assets - check poor parenting - check infidelity - probably, but don't know actually
You can call this judgement, but i call it reality. I gave the space because I thought that best for me and for her but the transition resulted in at least 2 of the 3 above and the accompaning destruction you mentioned.
I think its best for the LBS to come to grips as soon as possible with there X's choice and live there own life in order to give some solidity to the kids. Its easy for all to take that path of least resistence and come apart at the seems.
Starsky, do you think your stance had any impact to your wife finding her way back or if she went thorugh the transition and woke up herself?
Starsky, do you think your stance had any impact to your wife finding her way back or if she went thorugh the transition and woke up herself?
I can only go by what she said, once the fog cleared. She said that there were two specific things that played the greatest role in her desire to end her affair and return to the marriage: the disapproval of her parents and our adult daughters (esp. D-then-18), and the loss of me as her best friend.
Both of those were a direct result of specific things that I did, that were genuine to me and my own integrity and beliefs, and both of which were attempts to shorten the duration of her affair.
Again, I'm not even sure I believe in "MLC" as many define it here, or if my wife went thru some version of it -- just that many that DO believe in it, believe that she did. My decisions, strategy and tactics was based more on my overall mantras of "I will not live in an open marriage," and
"I will no longer operate from a standpoint of 'If I do X, will my wife get angry? How will her anger make me feel?' and instead from a standpoint of 'What is THE RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation? What is the thing that God Himself would have me do, if He were standing here in front of me?' "
"I think you can take the right stance at the wrong time"
This is true as all MLC's are all over the place and who knows what the right answer is. Db is still the best.
At this point in time, I could have taken the right, the wrong stance or no stance and it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other to her.
I took the best stance for me and am comfortable that I didnt lose myself in the process but actually know myself better still.
It still "s@cks" some days but I can appreciate the fact that it S@cks and let it go.
It counter to Starsky's wife in that her parents disapprove and she has said I don't care. Our kids have said they disapprove and again she dont care. There are a few close others that have said that as well, and again she don't care. My life, my rules, and I can F it up if I want to.
It counter to Starsky's wife in that her parents disapprove and she has said I don't care. Our kids have said they disapprove and again she dont care. There are a few close others that have said that as well, and again she don't care. My life, my rules, and I can F it up if I want to.
Mirage, please don't misunderstand. DURING my wife's affair, she didn't care EITHER. These were things she told me AFTERWARD, when she came out of her fog.
During??? Told by her father that her mother was just "devastated over all of this," she told him "Well, tell her she's going to just have to get over it." This from a very old-fashioned Italian woman who was, really BEST FRIENDS with her mother and would talk to her on the phone probably 360 out of 365 days per year, and visit with her in-person about 3-5x/week.
And she told our daughters they needed to "learn to accept it" and to "just grow up." Nice, huh?
btw, afterward, she doesn't remember saying ANY of that stuff.
Just because your wife says she "doesn't care" right now, Mirage, doesn't mean she doesn't care. You do what YOU think is right and best, and let the chips fall where they may and that way you will be able to hold your head up high, no matter what happens.
), but I think you paint the distinctions quite accurately.