Not a very happy story, I'm afraid..

[9600]

So, I have been in this situation for the past few months. I discovered this site, and the Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting, a few weeks ago, and have been soaking up everyone's stories and situations like mad. Thank you all for sharing your stories.

So, in June, I had to do a lot of travel for work. At one point I was gone one week, back for the weekend, then gone again for the next week. The first week was fairly normal, but I noticed things. I would text my wife and get no response. I would call her and she would be heading out the door with her friend. Moreover, I felt very alone, and normally we are able to talk and/or skype or whatever. I'd say over the past few months our frequency of talking had been declining, but I figured it was just because my wife was busy with school and work and she was getting wrapped up in all of her responsibilities. But on this trip, I felt something different.

When I got home, I made an effort to try to bridge the gap a little better. But I still felt her putting a wall up. She would get home late from work. I would ask her to lunch (she doesn't work days) and she would fail to respond, or worse, wait until after I'd said, "OK I have to go, I guess you don't want to come" to respond.

Then one day, I got home early from work, and found her in the kitchen in her (revealing) swimming suit with two guys I haven't met. I was dumbfounded and I really did not take it well. Our house has a pool, but it was VERY weird that she would have people over without even giving me a heads up. She's had friends over before, but I would always get a text or phone call. The guys were nice enough. They introduced themselves and left. Interestingly, they left around the time I'd normally be getting home from work.

Over the next few days, things got increasingly more tense. The next Thursday, she came to my work and we went out to lunch. While at lunch we discussed what we'd do that evening. She doesn't work Thursday nights and therefore it's a sort of de facto date night. I got home a little early from work again and she wasn't there. I texted her and said what are we doing? She said she was going to go out with friends and that I was not invited.

Well, I freaked out. This is not the wife that I knew. Anyway after a long fight I finally gave in and said fine, go out with your friends, we need to talk tomorrow though. And I wrote her a letter. In short, I told her that I was sorry that we'd seemed to grow apart, and it seemed like she was afraid to tell me she wasn't in love with me anymore. Because her actions told me that, even if she said she loved me to my face. I had noticed that I had been very stressed out throughout the spring and early summer due to my commitments through work. And I promised that I would change, be more adventurous and outgoing, like I used to be.

I left the letter on the door and went to bed at 11:00. She came home and went to bed later than that. The next day at work, we texted back and forth and she said we'd talk when she got home from work that night.

Well talk we did, and she unloaded with all of the stuff she thought was wrong with our marriage. And furthermore, she didn't want to try, did not want to do things differently, did not think we were ever really in love. However, she did agree to go to counseling with me. This was probably July 6th?

We had our first counseling appointment the following Tuesday. In hindsight it was very apparent that she was just going through the motions. The counselor asked her, "are you going to try to work on this?" and she just said, "well, I'm here." I think the counselor is good. She had good ideas about how we got to where we were and, more importantly, small things we could do immediately to try to fix things.

Unfortunately, one of the things she suggested was for me to touch wife.. Hold hands, touch her hair, etc. Well, that just seemed to drive her further away. I don't think the counselor understood how "done" my wife actually was. And really, I didn't either, because my wife really said and did contradictory things -- she was very hard for me to read.

We've had three couples sessions now, and we've each had an individual session. There's a lot more details of the intervening weeks that I will detail in future posts if necessary. It's been 6 weeks since she dropped the bomb. At the last counseling session (Tuesday), she decided she wants to move out. The counselor suggested a controlled separation, but we were out of time, she had another couple come in. Wife seemed to think that might be an OK idea.. Couldn't really read her.

We talked a little while after the session, and agreed that she would just move into another bedroom of the house, and I would give her as much distance as I could. I had suggested that perhaps we make a day to talk, how about Saturday morning? She said that was fine.

Well, yesterday I told her I'd rather just go out to breakfast than talk about our relationship. I figured I'd rather have a good time than burden her with our feelings, etc. So we went out to breakfast and I did my best to not start conversations, to let her lead, etc. Last Resort Technique. And I noticed she wasn't wearing the necklace that she's worn since our honeymoon. And then I noticed she wasn't showing me her left hand at all.

She'd taken her rings off.

I didn't let on that I'd seen. I really didn't know what to say. Over the past few weeks I've become more and more convinced that she's basically walking away from this marriage and me.. despite her words, her actions prove otherwise.

She swears she has not had an affair. Swears I'm making things up and grasping at straws.

I've talked with friends and family and gotten pretty good support. We just moved to this state last October, and quite frankly the wife has a much better support network than I do. I work in an office, and I really only have one friend at work. I have some friends outside of work but because of my travel schedule I haven't become very good friends with them... That is changing.

The wife works at a restaurant at night, teaches part time during the day and will be resuming graduate classes at night starting next week. Her restaurant friends are the ones I've never met.

At this point, I don't have a lot of hope. She's running away and if I try and stop her, that will just build up more resentment, so I'm not going to try. I even told her I certainly don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me. But it really isn't easy. Mornings are the worst.

There are many more details but at this point I can't quite figure out what's important and what's not. I will definitely be back to post more.

Thanks everyone.

[~ kd ~]

^

[Accuray]

Hi 9600,

Welcome to the board. I believe your W is absolutely having an affair, which your intuition I'm sure has told you. The only reason people distance that fast and that far is because they have stepped over the line in an outside relationship and become infatuated. At that point, a few things happen:

1) You are standing between her and her happiness with OM, so she resents you for that

2) She knows deep down that what she's doing is wrong, but doesn't want to feel badly, so instead decides that "you pushed her to this", that nothing in your marriage was ever good, and that everything bad is because of you. She convinces herself of these things because it makes the affair okay and justifiable.

3) When you don't act out your assigned role as the "bad guy", she resents you for that too and will get even angrier.

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do quickly to turn this around, once she's in love with someone else, she's gone until things are over with the OM. This can take 6 months to 2 years, but it rarely lasts longer than 2 years. That means that you're facing a marathon and not a sprint, and you have to steel yourself for how difficult this is going to be.

An affair only requires one thing to get started -- opportunity, but it is helped along considerably by dissatisfaction and unmet needs. In DB we suggest that you take this time to work on yourself. Examine your role in meeting your W's needs. If there are things about you that need to change, change them. I recommend reading DB & DR if you haven't already, and I also recommend reading "The 5 Love Languages". Regardless of what happens with W, you will be better off for having done so.

WRT W, the best thing you can do right now is give her space -- in fact, it's best to give her MORE space than she wants. What does this mean? It means you need to drop ALL pursuit. Pursuit includes inviting her to do things, initiating relationship discussions, starting conversations, looking for opportunities to see each other, etc. If you're in a virtual dance right now, you need to let her lead -- she makes the first move. You can mirror, but you cannot escalate.

Everything you do right now needs to be measured against a yardstick of resentment. She harbors a TON of resentment toward you now for things real and imagined. Your goal is to not make her resent you more. She will resent you for doing any of the following:

-- Making her responsible for your feelings by telling her or showing her that she is making you sad
-- Blaming her for not working on the marriage
-- Implying that anything she's doing is wrong
-- Telling her you love her
-- Making invitations that she does not want to accept

Look at it this way, she wants space. She wants to have a 9 foot foam block between the two of you at all times. When you pursue her, you compress the foam block which builds up pressure, and she deals with that by moving farther away. Each step you take towards her results in her moving farther away again from the baseline in your marriage. Each step you push her away, you have to later repair, so your goal right now is to stop her movement away from you.

If instead of moving toward her, you take a step in the OTHER direction, the foam block falls to the ground and it's safe for her to take a step TOWARD you while preserving her desired cushion. That's what you want to do. Give her MORE space than she wants, and use the time to work on yourself, make new friends, become a marriage expert. If there's something you did that really used to bother her, start doing the opposite.

In addition, the more that you can shake things up with you, the better. Get a new haircut, dress differently, make new friends and start doing new things. If you have set routines, break them. She believes that she knows everything about you that there is to know. You can get her thinking about you and what she's giving up if you make her question this knowledge. You can't point this stuff out to her though, you have to let her notice for herself.

I might also suggest dropping the joint MC sessions. If she's not a willing participant it's going to do you more harm than good, because you will put all your cards on the table and she will not. She needs to *wonder* what you're thinking, not be told.

I would continue to see the MC by yourself if it helps, but for now, space, space and more space.

Accuray

[~ kd ~]

9600, how old are you? How old is your W? I am guessing you have no kids?

What are some of the specific complaints your W mentioned about the M?

[9600]

Thanks for the responses. I had been checking but my post was moderated so I didn't see when it finally went through.

Accuracy.. Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. Good to know that my reading of the situation isn't as crazy as she's trying to insinuate. I think if there isn't a physical affair, there's at least an emotional affair -- or perhaps just a fantasy affair. One of the things I said to her when she asked to separate is that, really, that's the first concrete thing she's asked me to do, so I don't see how I could refuse that.

Kaffe, I'm 34, she's 33. No kids. Specifically, W said that we don't have anything in common anymore, I'm very critical of her and emotionally remote. Oh, and our sex life was terrible. She felt like I'd pushed her away in lots of little ways. But honestly, I don't know how true a lot of that is. I feel like I've been reaching and reaching out to her even before this bombshell, for the last 6 months to a year at least.

Honestly I think her complaints are more historical than current. These are things that we've had issues with in the past, but I feel like I've addressed them to the best of my ability at the time. Feels more like rationalization to me. That said, I do recognize that I have a whole lot I want to change about myself, and working on myself is really the only thing I have under my control.

Maybe some history is in order. We almost got married once before.. We started dating when I was 18, she was 17. Dated for 5 years and decided to get married. A year after our engagement, and 2 days before we closed on a house, she told me she wasn't going through with the house, the wedding, any of it. She was done. I saw her once or twice after that due to having to tie things up with the house.

Fast forward five years. She messages me out of the blue on Myspace. We start seeing each other again, after a few months decide that we made a mistake not getting married before, and deicde to get married. She promises not to build the wall up, and I promise to listen better to her so that she doesn't retreat from me. Well, I guess neither of us were very good at keeping those promises, although in hindsight I don't think we knew what we were doing to each other.

I think W really did put herself out there for me for a long time. She would make dinner for us, she woulnd't work extra hours or anything, and she would discuss her problems with me. She was jealous of the time I'd spend in the office, working on music or whatever I was doing to blow off steam. She was hurt by things like that, and at the time I didn't understand why. My response was to slowly stop isolating myself and to try to be more attentive when she was home. I wanted to be more available to her when I could, because she'd told me so many times that that's what she wanted.

One of the benefits of counseling is that I've learned so much about how to listen and validate without trying to 'fix.' I'm not a pro yet but I feel like my eyes are now fully open, and that I'm able to communicate (and more importantly, LISTEN) much more effectively.

But at this point I think it's too late to go back to what she USED to want/need. My biggest problem so far has been that I've confused what she told me in that PAST with what she's telling me NOW.

As for what I'm doing for myself.. Over the weekend I went out for a motorcycle ride with a friend, that was a lot of fun. Yesterday I pretty much just stayed in and did some stuff around the house. I am not the hardest worker around the house so that is somewhat of a 180 for me.. Been working on that since this whole situation started. Other than that I've also been working on riding my bicycle to work more and seizing opportunities to make new friends and see more people.

One thing I know I have to work on as far as the last resort technique is that I probably haven't projected the cool, controlled and happy persona that I should be. I will walk in and say "hello" if she's around, but I know my smile seems forced.

I did make the mistake of asking about her rings on Saturday night. I said, "you don't have to hide your left hand from me." She said she'd taken them off last week since the marriage "didn't mean what she thought it meant." Apparently that's something that *I* had said. I said that seeing her with her rings off felt like she wasn't trying and that she was more done than ever, and it hurt my feelings, so that's why it upset me. But I did keep it short at least. I apologized for the intrusion and I left her alone after that, but I know I didn't do myself any favors.

Today I texted her for the first time in a week, I asked if she needed anything from the grocery store since I was going to go after work. Part of me feels like that was too much, could be considered pursuing... and part of me feels that it's benign, just a practical matter. I guess I want to go dark, but keep the path home well lit, if that makes sense.

On the suggestion from one of the other posters here I found a couple of books by Pema Chodron.. WOW. They are good stuff. I'm reading "Start Where You Are" right now.

Tomorrow we have another counseling appointment. We're supposed to talk about a controlled separation agreement I think. I don't know if she's going to stay living in the other bedroom in the house or if she wants to actually move out.

[9600]

I tried responding a few days ago and I guess it didn't work? Or maybe it's still in moderation. Anyway, trying again. This is from Monday...

Thanks for the responses. I had been checking but my post was moderated so I didn't see when it finally went through.

Accuracy.. Thanks so much for the thoughtful response. Good to know that my reading of the situation isn't as crazy as she's trying to insinuate. One of the things I said to her when she asked to separate is that, really, that's the first concrete thing she's asked me to do, so I don't see how I could refuse that.

Kaffe, I'm 34, she's 33. No kids. Specifically, W said that we don't have anything in common anymore, I'm very critical of her and emotionally remote. Oh, and our sex life was terrible. She felt like I'd pushed her away in lots of little ways. But honestly, I don't know how true a lot of that is. I feel like I've been reaching and reaching out to her even before this bombshell, for the last 6 months to a year at least.

Honestly I think her complaints are more historical than current. These are things that we've had issues with in the past, but I feel like I've addressed them to the best of my ability at the time. Feels more like rationalization to me. That said, I do recognize that I have a whole lot I want to change about myself, and working on myself is really the only thing I have under my control.

Maybe some history is in order. We almost got married once before.. We started dating when I was 18, she was 17. Dated for 5 years and decided to get married. A year after our engagement, and 2 days before we closed on a house, she told me she wasn't going through with the house, the wedding, any of it. She was done. I saw her once or twice after that due to having to tie things up with the house.

Fast forward five years. She messages me out of the blue on Myspace. We start seeing each other again, after a few months decide that we made a mistake not getting married before, and deicde to get married. She promises not to build the wall up, and I promise to listen better to her so that she doesn't retreat from me. Well, I guess neither of us were very good at keeping those promises, although in hindsight I don't think we knew what we were doing to each other.

I think W really did put herself out there for me for a long time. She would make dinner for us, she woulnd't work extra hours or anything, and she would discuss her problems with me. She was jealous of the time I'd spend in the office, working on music or whatever I was doing to blow off steam. She was hurt by things like that, and at the time I didn't understand why. My response was to slowly stop isolating myself and to try to be more attentive when she was home. I wanted to be more available to her when I could, because she'd told me so many times that that's what she wanted.

One of the benefits of counseling is that I've learned so much about how to listen and validate without trying to 'fix.' I'm not a pro yet but I feel like my eyes are now fully open, and that I'm able to communicate (and more importantly, LISTEN) much more effectively.

But at this point I think it's too late to go back to what she USED to want/need. My biggest problem so far has been that I've confused what she told me in that PAST with what she's telling me NOW.

As for what I'm doing for myself.. Over the weekend I went out for a motorcycle ride with a friend, that was a lot of fun. Yesterday I pretty much just stayed in and did some stuff around the house. I am not the hardest worker around the house so that is somewhat of a 180 for me.. Been working on that since this whole situation started. Other than that I've also been working on riding my bicycle to work more and seizing opportunities to make new friends and see more people.

One thing I know I have to work on as far as the last resort technique is that I probably haven't projected the cool, controlled and happy persona that I should be. I will walk in and say "hello" if she's around, but I know my smile seems forced.

I did make the mistake of asking about her rings on Saturday night. I said, "you don't have to hide your left hand from me." She said she'd taken them off last week since the marriage "didn't mean what she thought it meant." Apparently that's something that *I* had said. I said that it felt like she wasn't trying and that she was more done than ever, and it hurt my feelings, so that's why it upset me. But I did keep it short at least. I apologized for the intrusion and I left her alone after that, but I know I didn't do myself any favors.

Tomorrow we have another counseling appointment. We're supposed to talk about a controlled separation agreement I think.

Today I texted her for the first time in a week, I asked if she needed anything from the grocery store since I was going to go after work. Part of me feels like that was too much, could be considered pursuing... and part of me feels that it's benign, just a practical matter.

----

Here's today's entry:

We went to the marriage counselor yesterday. The counselor seems to be pressuring W to commit to the relationship, I think because the counselor feels she can't help if W isn't committed. Fair enough, but I'm not sure that's what W needs to hear right now. Counselor said it was obvious I was trying very hard but that I couldn't do it by myself.

What W did say is that she actually felt herself starting to relax in the last few days. We didn't bring up a controlled separation agreement or anything. W wants to keep things status quo for a while and think a bit more. So, separate rooms, separate lives, etc.

After counseling, W and I went to dinner. We talked a little bit about relationship stuff (I couldn't help myself.. argh), but mostly tried to keep it light and non serious. I offered to go for a movie if she wanted to relax a little. (I know, I know, pursuing..) She declined, said she had stuff to work on for school. So I offered to just go for a walk to the mailbox, and she declined that too. When we left the restaurant, W stopped for ice cream on the way and I went straight home (we'd driven separate to counseling because I came straight from work).

So.. I need to relax/detach a bit more. Also, I think I may have gone straight to "after the last resort" rather than the "last resort" in some ways. I basically made an effort since last week to not contact the wife at all -- as if we were living in separate locations. So, if she was in her room and awake I would not knock and say hello if I came home. I would not tell her if I left, etc. And one of the problems in our marraige was that she felt like I cut her off, so I don't want to exacerbate the problem by being too remote.

Last night, she was still up when I went up to bed. I knocked on the door, came in and said goodnight. She had one of the cats with her so I gave the cat a good rub. Today, her alarm went off while I was leaving, so I came in and said goodbye and have a good day. I still don't know if even that is too much.

In other news, she has turned her twitter account to 'private' which means I can't see it anymore. She also made 4 posts on facebook about her ice cream and a tv show she was watching -- but no mention to me, even though I'm in the same house. I was not invited/included in the tv show watching or ice cream. I noticed all this, but did not mention it.

So, I know I shouldn't believe what she says, but it was good to hear her say to the counselor that she was relaxing a bit. And, even though she went back on plans we had for our anniversary this weekend (we were going to take a long weekend, been planning it since April/May), she did agree to go out on Thursday for our actual anniversary. I can sense her guard coming down a little bit, I just need to keep control of myself and let her come to me.

Another thing I need to work on.. Let her start the conversation. This is going to be tough for me, I am a chatterbox and very sensitive to the dead space in a conversation. I've been good about keeping topics benign for the most part, but I need to lay back a lot more and let her lead. It feels like she will never say anything, that she's so closed off she won't ever make the leap.

I read some more Pema Chodron last night. That is very helpful.

[9600]

I'm not sure if it's because I was posting at work or what, but my posts aren't showing up?? I've had a couple that have not shown up at all. I think I have them saved I case it's some glitch...

[Arsene]

Hi 9600,

I agree with what's been said so far. It looks like she might be having an affair, or at least considering one. I guess it might work for you that she is still in the same house but it might also drive you nuts as you'll be wondering about her whereabouts constantly. Nonetheless, whether it's for financial reasons or otherwise, at least she is still around and that can give you a chance to make small changes which can be noticed and to GAL. This in itself might make her realize what she is walking away from. Do stuff with friends, go out, dress nicely, change your cologne, get a new haircut, make her wonder what you're up to instead of you wondering what she is up to. It's much easier to do this while she's home.

It does sound to me that you are pursuing a bit and since she's already said that she felt more relaxed when you'd started to give her space, I think you should go back to that and let her initiate contact, even if you know she's home and awake. I think that the more you intrude in her life, even with innocent gestures, the more you might make it difficult for her to feel relaxed around you and she might eventually opt for leaving the house.

This is where I am now and believe me, although it make it easier to detach (somehow), it also brings its own new set of problems and worries.

[25yearsmlc]

9600,

unlike some, I spend NO time on asserting or wondering about OMs b/c she has not declared herself to be in love with one, ANd you have no evidence in your face of one (ie finding ONE man in the house with your wife and not swimming)

and b/c in the end, MWD advises against snooping and exposing AND b/c YOU have no control over that anyhow.

All you can be, is the better choice.


Kaffe Diem did a lengthy piece on what her real words are on the topic so if someone shows up here on your thread to tell you to EXPOSE, b/c they claim it worked for them-

decide if you want to try THIS approach, or theirs, or several all at once, which I do not advise.

Since you are here on the Div Busting site, I choose to go along with what the author and founder clearly states about her views.

Do not snoop.

Exception---if you KNOW, and I mean KNOW/KNOW/KNOW with certainty that an affair would

absolutely end the marriage no matter what role you MAY have played in her having one,

then snoop away, and if you find an affair, end the marriage.

But if you want to work on the relationship as I sense strongly you do

then focus only on YOU. NO snooping or confronting or at most you confront HER once (do not involve other people) b/c as you said

you want the Road Home, paved and smooth.

And since you realize that all you control is you, (and it's early for this type of insight to occur - so I am impressed w/the rapidity of your progress really)

you are all you control. You have your "stuff" to work on; so work on it.

She has hers and that's NOT your job to deal with but hers and hers alone. It's not your job to "teach her a lesson".

As my DB coach said "life does that for them" And btw, if you can, HIRE a DB coach b/c they are very specific/detailed in their advice. For me they were very effective.

What else are you doing to GAL?

Also, what WERE her comments in the past about what you could work on

and compare them to todays.

Is there that much of a difference OR

do you really believe she is merely rationalizing B/C IF YOU DO BELIEVE THAT

it means you believe that YOU have fixed all your issues.

You really ready to say that?

[25yearsmlc]

ps

in the final analysis, she must believe that

marriage to you can be better/different than before, or she won't really commit.

So what are YOU DOING (not saying, but doing) to SHOW her that?

Can you change your work/travel schedule at all? And comparing her previous complaints w/the present ones...

anything change?