thinking on new life w/o X

[AJM]

I'm still kind of stuck on toothpaste and bananas... but forward I think he just has a way to go yet. Meanwhile, try not to put too much thought into his relationship with D. He'll do it in a way that works for him and D. It likely won't be the way you would do it or in a way you would understand.

It'll work out as it is going to work out with them regardless of what you do, right? It may take longer the way he does it. He may not live to a satisfactory level with it. But he'll still do it his way and that won't necessarily be your way.

Take that with a grain of salt - I don't know how his relationship with her is. Only they know that.


AJ

[forward]

I am actually rather relieved to see that he takes D's feelings into consideration. It's taken him long enough to do that. So things have improved that way.

I feel sorry for New Woman, I really do. But I find myself wondering: Early on, did she not notice how little time X spent with D versus with her?

I noticed immediately that my New Guy did not allow me to intrude on his family. Not that I wanted to, but it was clear that time with his kids mattered to him. I respected that and knew that he was a winner because of it. If he had been like X, I would not have wanted to be with him.

[sleeper]

AJ,

I think you're being coy...but just in case... When people are under pressure, what they are made of comes out
.
"If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you then you shall be a man, my son." My Mother (I think she paraphrased Rudyard Kipling)

My mother (her 89th birthday was yesterday) must have said that to me a thousand
times when I was young.

She would also say, "You have broad shoulders, you can handle it" anytime ANY difficulty came my way.

Long ago I recognized the truth in her version of Kipling's quote.

And grew to resent the admonition of her own.

[forward]

I received an email from X that has convinced me that he is still deep in crisis, and I think it's going to take this woman dying and probably significantly more loss for him to begin to consider how he has treated many people in his life. (I doubt his treatment of me will ever be in the picture, and I accept that.) He'll probably demand attention when he gets older and more needy himself.

He did improve w/D, but there was still a long way to go, and in the email it's very clear that he feels very noble about his efforts for New Woman even as his daughter has suffered her entire life for his lack of attention.

I am tempted to respond, but I won't. He needs to be a white knight. I am sure his parents are very disappointed in him. He brought New Woman to see them--leaving D in my care alone, of course--while they surely would have loved a visit from D.

I don't believe D will see her great-grandmother again. I like the woman and find this sad.

[sleeper]

Forward. I no longer look for or even expect X to "come out" of her mlc. She is what she is. Sure, I never expected her to do what she did and treat me or especily her children the way she did but I now believe the tendencies for such behavior were there all along.

I remember you mentioned your X treated you badly, discounting your accomplishments and criticizing you during your M. I've seen that behavior before from insecure, selfish people who felt they had to pull others down to make themselves feel better.

The underlying character flaw is self-centeredness. My X traveled across the country to meet OMH's family for Thanksgiving one year. You'd think she would have wanted to spend Thanksgiving with her kids (that she recently opined are: "The reason I do everything I do"). Maybe your X didn't think his mother wanted to see her grandaughter. After all, it's all about him, his life, his new significant other and how he's taking care of her, the fabulous individual he is, after all. The thought may have never crossed his mind.

Their self-delusion or blindness to their own actions is amazing to me. As she argued how our kids should now live with her all the time the other day for vague reasons like they need to be with their mother and I can't care for them the way she does she ended the convo infoing me she would be out of the country most of her week with them and there would be a house sitter at her home who would watch them. He focus was on how excited she was about the trip as it's her first time to leave the country. The irony of her argument and her actions being counter intuitive never crossed her mind. Why not? Because it's not about what's best for the kids. It's about what she wants.

I think many of our X's were and still are damaged goods. There may have been a "crisis" which affected them to a degree but they've always been self centered.

[AJM]

Agreed, although I would add that I think fear is at the root of it all. From what I've seen, it seems to me that fear of aging, death, not having enough of something (love, air, money, admirers, etc) seems to be relevant. At least, it is how I see things.

What I find is that under pressure, we see what makes a person work. Or as you put it, what they truly are, comes out (paraphrased).


But we didn't cause the fear. It's deep seated. At the core. And only the individual can choose to face their fears. If they don't, we see irrational (child like) behavior as they try to alleviate and fight the fears. Or as we also call them, the demons.

It's what helps me to understand people to some degree. I don't want to sound like a despot in the making (ha). But I see people as like children in many cases. Myself included. I see them acting out the "I want!" and "make the monster stop" terms. Watching my ex and others, I have not had a reason to change that "lens" to date.

I see self-centered behavior as coming from fear. For example a person becomes self-centered in their behavior if they fear they won't get "enough" to eat. Or enough air. Or enough of anything they feel they "need". They drop their morals as a result and become a "monster" in their efforts to get what they "need".

Emotional vampire, monster, MLC'r, teenager, etc. We see a lot of facets as they grapple with these fears that drive them.

As for the kids. It's good that he spends time with her. I hope he continues on that path. I strongly encouraged my ex to do that. I made it almost impossible for her to not at least have some interaction with the kids. It was and is tough for me, but I still see the innermost her in how she deals with the kids. I accepted that a long time ago and make sure to be there for the kids whenever and wherever needed. It's temporary since they'll be adults soon and won't need nearly as much of their father as they do now. For a few years at any rate...

Peace,
AJ

[forward]

I realize the mistake I made was in feeling hopeful that D would become a higher priority.

I need to write him off entirely and not have any expectations in terms of improvement. Great if he does, but for the most part, she has been a consistent third or fourth priority to him, and I don't think that will change much.

Sleeper, I find that the last years of the marriage have now eclipsed the times that I once thought of fondly. It's as if early on, they see only the negative and we see the positive. Now when I think of being married to X, I think primarily of the negative aspects of being married to him and have a hard time remembering positive side to the M. I certainly don't have much to say in positive terms regarding his personality, and yes, I do see him as selfish.

Just remember...when you came on here you saw something worth saving, and so did I.

I think it's a self-protective measure on our parts......

[sleeper]

[quote] ...when you came on here you saw something worth saving and so did I. [quote]

You are absolutely right, Forward but I guess I've crossed The Rubicon or something. Once again our timelines are very similar as I believe in some respects you crossed it before me.

Something clicked this past Spring with me. It may have been like a timer going off as it had been approximately 5 years since separation or it may have been my youngest leaving elementary driving home the fact the kids are getting older. The loss of family and concern for my kids was a major factor in attempting to save the marriage. I guess realizing they'd be grown soon (and the damage is done) what's the point? I also realized Im not getting any younger. Add to that the fact X and I are not the people we were 5 years ago. Our kids are the only thing we have left in common and they're growing up (at one time they were the focus of our lives).

X's recent actions have killed any connection I had left with her. We had done a very good job of co-parenting which fostered a kind of friendship between us. Many have commented to us asking how we did it and that they knew no couple who had gotten along so well after their D, working together as parents (we know one couple with two kids that communicate only through lawyers years after the divorce). That's over now. I realized the other day I don't view X as anything but an adversary now. Someone who has informed you they have tmed to a L (she's already sued me once) and wants to take my children away from me is not, nor can they be my friend. It may get ugly soon and I have nothing left to lose. She has ready sat the children down and discussed (and tried to manipulate) with them her reasons they should live with her. Therefore I can't protect the kids as I have in the past. There will be ugliness but they will learn how important they are to me. DS has already asked questions testing me to confirm I will not give him up to her without a fight.

Forward, your X hasn't remarried as mine has and your D is much younger. For all our similarities there are big differences.

[forward]

Sleeper,
Although I don't like X any more, I guess it's important to honor the fact that we did once love them--even though frankly at this point I remember X mostly for his criticism and complaining and that is the standout feature of the relationship in my mind. I have no physical attraction to him any more, either.

But... otherwise I will not feel that I have somehow learned and grown from this experience, so I have tried to remember some good times and why I loved him, because I did sincerely and I wanted very much to have things work.

I guess some of it is protecting ourselves: it's easier to think of it as a bad situation that didn't work and that was mostly their fault.

[sleeper]

Hey Forward,

I've moved over to "Surviving the big D"

Heavy stuff going down.

As somebody once said, "You have to be careful who you have children with."