KD - that was a brilliant post and timely, once again.
I'm see this pattern here, that just when i start to "explore" something, you pop up and post so clearly about it.
I started to think about that since our last convo, as well as the one on the interpretations thread. and am in the throes of realizing that all along i was "moving forward" and then suddenly in the last few days - triggered by h's wanting to start the D, veered off into "moving on".
now, i'm working on getting back to where i was - "moving forward"
i was also very interested in what you wrote about betrayal - an dhow it comes in many forms, - and i suddenly saw how clearly h fet betrayed when i "left" psychologically and emotionally.
alos we both felt betrayed by each other in the first years, as neither of us were the person the other one expected to be.
i know veering off a bit. but it's important for me to understand the deeper underlying feelings behind h's actions - i can feel how the betrayal feels to ME, but to understand that he may feel the same is a bit of an eye-opener.
and here's a somewhat odd thought, but i'll throw it out there anyway - it just popped into my mind - could h feel a certain amount of additional betrayal after BD, because I didn't react as he expected me to? i sort of let him down there in a way also - he was literally banking on me being the old zig and losing it and accusing and criticizing him. I didn't do it once (well, ok once - when i realized that he slept with me after being with ow and didn't use protection - then i really lost it)
for the first 6 months he brought up continuously, almost groaning it out - why can't you just get angry so that it's easy for me to leave?
i'm still mulling over that post and how i should answer it.
a question - am i supposed to describe how h and i could be if we got back together?
also KD i do have a question for you. Bond asked me some questions - which i replied to on the bootcamp thread .no answer from him, but then instead the strangest most unexpected one from sgctox, which sort of threw me a bit.
what's going on with that? i don't really understand it - can you explain? where that is coming from?
hope you are well - i am going to sit and do my homework now
hope you are having a shiny day KD - you know the type that just has a silver edge around it for no particular reason
((((((( ))))))) zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
{{{zig}}} What you wrote above, as always, great post and great insight. Keep doing that.
labug, thanks. That is a great way of explaining it (lateral vs. upwards).
Zig, you are seeing the... connection... between betrayal and expectations. Awesome! Let me just say that there's also a distinction of moving on, which as described... is (or is based on) an expectation... (ie. Since the WAS is not changing as we expected, we're going to move ON). Moving forward OTOH, is based on no expectations...
Yes, while you may have initially reacted as he expected after BD, you changed. So yes, in that sense, it is a betrayal. Betrayal not so much as what you did or didn't do, rather about how he interpreted it internally. Although in that sense, there's probably a better word to use, than betrayal. Still, the result (for him) is the same.
I did read your bootcamp thread and what I read both from Bond and from sg "made sense" to me as being appropriate for your sitch.
well here i am "expecting" some concrete specific help as in 1, 2, 3 and then i am getting something totally different - a request to do it myself AND a request to start a thread to help others.
so are people seeing me different from how i see myself? do i give this different impression of being so strong that i still hide my real weaknesses. and then when i try to ask for help the general answer is that - look at you you don't need help here, in fact you should be helping the others.
and it brings me to thinking - wow, i am still so afraid of showing my true vulnerability and weaknesses, that even on line, where there is a semblance of anonymity, i still manage to give this impression of being really strong and capable - and possibly create a situation where i don't get the help i truly need because i hide behind this facade ( and all of a sudden, i see how i did that since i was a very young child - staying bold and defiant no matter how much i was hurting inside - groan groan - it's still like that, after all this work? wtf? when does this effing end?)
and suddenly i see that in my efforts in DB'ing and following the 37 rules - have i taken it to such an extreme that i have actually convinced h that i am just fine without him? something to think about
so another circle opens.. how to learn to show my real vulnerability, so that i can get the real help i need. how to be vulnerable and open and not feel the unknown threat?
you are seeing the... connection... between betrayal and expectations
yes, KD, i think i am - and it's thanks to you
can't you just write this all out as a book so we can read it and get it all in one fell swoop
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
so are people seeing me different from how i see myself? do i give this different impression of being so strong that i still hide my real weaknesses. and then when i try to ask for help the general answer is that - look at you you don't need help here, in fact you should be helping the others.
What is very clear is, you KNOW this stuff. Not a challenge, just saying that you do, now, really know / understand this stuff. So you CAN do a lot of the work on your own AND... you DO do a lot of the work, on your own...
AND...
That knowledge, experience, and ability COULD be translated to helping others, which I believe you are doing... at least a little bit (ie. more than just supporting and validating other newbies, here).
And DO UNDERSTAND... that even those that have been here for a while... we all do need support... or an outside perspective, when we hit a wall where we are stuck... See in the "surviving D" and MLC threads where members are D and still have things they want / need to work through...
That's normal... we all need it...
Originally Posted By: zig
and suddenly i see that in my efforts in DB'ing and following the 37 rules - have i taken it to such an extreme that i have actually convinced h that i am just fine without him? something to think about
Did you convince him, or did he come to this conclusion based on your BELIEVABLE actions?
AND...
If you are panicked about that (that he believes you are moving forward without him)... remember...
All he would need to know is that you are safe to be around and a really, really attractive option... and whether he believes you're moving forward... he'd really, really, really like to be part of your future...
thanks for your reply - it took me a day or so to digest, and the result is my answer on the bootcamp thread.
as for being worried about having convinced h too much - i see what you mean. i get your point
so what did i work through today and yesterday - so many new insights, both about myself and about our sitch.
i've worked through some fears, things that i see now were still holding me back.
and sg's request - that and your comments nudged me over to a better place.
at the end of my yoga - i lay there in shivasana - and what she'd written came into my mind. and suddenly i saw how i didn't feel i deserved or was worthy of what she'd asked me to do. and i just lay there and repeated to myself - i can acknowledge that i have something to give and to get. i do deserve love, appreciation for who i am, acknowledgement from others and then finally i became able to say I do deserve to acknowledge myself to myself.
and i was thinking these things as much as feeling them - a huge difference. i was really for the first time able to truly acknowledge my own worth to myself.
and i think that's when i emerged from the dark clouds into the blue sky above (as labug gave us today)
it was also then that i was able to just get up and calmly write that post.
sg's words: "I became accountable" - have started to haunt me. in a good way. suddenly i can see so clearly how i have NOT been accountable to myself. I have always been accountable to others in my mind, but rarely truly to myself
it's time to move forward with that.
And DO UNDERSTAND... that even those that have been here for a while... we all do need support... or an outside perspective, when we hit a wall where we are stuck... See in the "surviving D" and MLC threads where members are D and still have things they want / need to work throug
thanks for this KD - sometimes i get so self-involved, i forget this. but luckily I have you here to remind me
alot happened yesterday, so will go on to post that next
hope you're having a kickass weekend
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
ah I read the bootcamp thread and then this made a bit more sense to me.
I understand what you mean about putting on a facade and seeming stronger than you are. So many of us do this. Men moreso if you think from a young age they are told to buck up not to cry etc.
but this.....
Quote:
and then when i try to ask for help the general answer is that - look at you you don't need help here, in fact you should be helping the others.
and it brings me to thinking - wow, i am still so afraid of showing my true vulnerability and weaknesses, that even on line, where there is a semblance of anonymity, i still manage to give this impression of being really strong and capable -
a) there's no vet that has it all figured out. KD just confirmed that. But they were once where you and I are and now they're not. In the same way that a person who comes to this board lost, confused, hurting to the point that they can't function on a daily basis is where I was and now I'm not and so I can say it will get better, try to think about everything good in your life and all the things that helped me then. And that's what you can do advise people who haven't made it to your part of the path.
b)I think you are stronger and more capable than YOU give YOU credit for. and that's the accountability part. I think SG was saying that when they took on being a mod they became more responsible. In the way that you have to make responsible choices when you're a mom because you have someone else to look out for. OR it could be ...... sometimes when I'm writing on someone else's sitch I have a break through of my own. It's like you can see someone else's wrong thinking or downfall more than your own because you don't have all the personal attachment and then you think hang on....and you learn from that.
You do have something to give! You only have to look at all the feedback you get on here! You are giving and warm and caring and kind. You always help someone out whether it's reassurance or 2x4 and you've been doing it for awhile....and doing a fab job of it!
Pat yourself on the back or give yourself a high five from me!
