You are correct & I really don't mean what I say about there being OM in the picture. I pray to the Lord daily that there isn't, but I figure if I pump myself up to not care (just in case), that it will soften the blow. I am not 100% sure that there is, and really not sure I want to know! She promised & pleaded with me years ago that she would never make that mistake again, and I took her word for it. I really don't know if she is a repeat cheater & maybe I am blinder/more naive than I thought.
At the beginning of all of this she was going out at night dancing/drinking with a so-called friend (whom nobody trusts who knows her) who was miserable in her own marriage & was truly being a cheerleader for her to leave me (I can explain more if need be). Staying out late etc...Which is something she has never done (very out of the ordinary). Of course this friend/cheerleader has moved out of the country with her Husband/Family, but they most likely still keep in touch with FB etc (I don't have/never have had a FB account). But if I harp on it or bring negative thoughts into my head, it drives me nuts. So, my goal is to not think about the past or let me mind take control.
Honestly, And I have no reason to lie to you. I don't think I ever treated her truly that bad. I think that I may just never have treated her the way she wanted or should have been (i.e. I should have shown her more Support for things, love, praise). I will take a bullet and honestly say that I treated her rather harshly about spending $$ after the layoff though. I felt like anything we spent $$ on was going to kill us & bankrupt us again(self-esteem/pride maybe?), so I took it out on her with rude & sarcastic comments about stuff she would purchase. When truly all she was buying most of the time was things we needed for the house. I am in no way blaming my Father for this & realize we are responsible for our own actions, but I watched him do this to my Mother forever & then realized that I did the same darn thing. Money has been a hot button throughout our relationship, but really got out of control by me with the way I reacted to it after Layoff/Bankruptcy when it wasn't flowing quite as generously. I hope I definitely learned my lesson on that one! I think I really was very demeaning and belittling to her when it came to money, but I don't know. Maybe it's because after all this blew up she has been lashing out at me and stated that I am very controlling and manipulative and I am starting to believe her comments. (Thus the believe nothing they say & half of what they do)! Wish I would've read the book sooner
**I am slow sometimes & definitely know the definition of supplicate, but please elaborate on this, as I need all the advice I can get!**
Maybe my Cockiness/Self-Confidence in the past kept her attracted? Is that what you mean? And by being humble and weak, she finds that un-attractive?
I definitely don't want to be a doormat or push-over, but would still very much like to retain my marriage and make it stronger than before. Not too mention my kids have taken very highly to some of the 180's that I have done. My daughter is as intelligent as they come. She told me a few weeks back: "Daddy you weren't really as bad as Mommy said you are, she is just saying that to make herslef feel better about leaving". It kindof broke my heart!
On a positive note, she has just been hired full-time as an elementary school teacher at my kids private school they go to. I think this is a good thing, because she has always loved teaching/children, and was always very good at it. I have had kids with me mostly for last couple of months, so her seeing/driving them to school and whatnot will be good.
I really don't want to be 100% negative about this or anything these days and have gone out of my way through IC and whatnot to boost my Confidence back to start standing up for myself. I definitely have a lot more work to do in order to get back to where I am not a push-over.
. . .I really don't know if she is a repeat cheater . . .
I was going by one of your very first posts on the forum, which said that you were warned she had two prior PAs, not this most current sitch (altho it does sound pretty suspicious).
I wanted my cake & eat it to. Meaning I wanted to go out and hang with friends & come home to her when I was done (very stupid/immature).
Sounds familiar.
Originally Posted By: suppo
I feel that the downturn in our marriage was around the beginning of 2009 (already out of military into Corporate America by 2003). That was when I was layed off from a very high paying job (with the debt to go with it). From there we had to file for Bankruptcy. I wasn't quite myself after layoff & bankruptcy (pride/whoa is me attitude), so for 3 years I was distant, angry, depressed etc. and wasn't there for her emotionally when I should have been.
Sounds familiar.
Originally Posted By: suppo
I basically became a whinny angry, whoa is me attitude kind of guy who was miserable, which projected onto her and others.
Sounds familiar.
Originally Posted By: suppo
I think I really screwed the pooch at the beginning of this process. Because since she dropped the Bomb on me in March, I have pursued, whinned, begged, cards etc...Basically everything that all of you and MWD advise against. Who wants to be with a very whinny & weak blubbering fool?
Sounds familiar.
Originally Posted By: suppo
Also I have been going to IC & church since this all started, and truly feel great about becoming me again. This of course upsets her tremendously, because she said that why does it take me doing this for you to want to change?
Sounds familiar.
My point? You are with plenty of people who understand what you are going through. Most of what you describe is very common amongst the problems and reactions of the people here on this board. You are at the right place.
I agree with Starsky. I too would be concerned because of her past history of infidelity.
I also agree that you need to stop being so available. Personally, I'd suggest that you go LRT (last resort technique) immediately.
How to do that can be found in the book Divorce Remedy. Have you read it?
Is there a waiting period for divorces in your state?
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
You are correct & I really don't mean what I say about there being OM in the picture. I pray to the Lord daily that there isn't, but I figure if I pump myself up to not care (just in case), that it will soften the blow. I am not 100% sure that there is, and really not sure I want to know!
Man, the not knowing is almost as difficult as knowing that there is an OM. I definitely understand that.
The bottom line is that you have no control over it right now. What you need to do is figure out how you will feel IF it turns out that there is an OM. Can you forgive her for that? Can you still have a M with her if you do ultimately R? Something that you need to think about.
Originally Posted By: suppo
Honestly, And I have no reason to lie to you. I don't think I ever treated her truly that bad. I think that I may just never have treated her the way she wanted or should have been (i.e. I should have shown her more Support for things, love, praise). I will take a bullet and honestly say that I treated her rather harshly about spending $$ after the layoff though. I felt like anything we spent $$ on was going to kill us & bankrupt us again(self-esteem/pride maybe?), so I took it out on her with rude & sarcastic comments about stuff she would purchase. When truly all she was buying most of the time was things we needed for the house. I am in no way blaming my Father for this & realize we are responsible for our own actions, but I watched him do this to my Mother forever & then realized that I did the same darn thing. Money has been a hot button throughout our relationship, but really got out of control by me with the way I reacted to it after Layoff/Bankruptcy when it wasn't flowing quite as generously. I hope I definitely learned my lesson on that one! I think I really was very demeaning and belittling to her when it came to money, but I don't know. Maybe it's because after all this blew up she has been lashing out at me and stated that I am very controlling and manipulative and I am starting to believe her comments. (Thus the believe nothing they say & half of what they do)! Wish I would've read the book sooner
Some of that doesn't sound too good Sup. Sometimes, our actions that don't seem that bad or hurtful to us, are actually terribly hurtful to the person that we are doing them too. It is a matte of perspective, and you need to understand right now, that your W has her own view of this separate and distinct of what you think.
Chances are, that if she is bringing that stuff up now, that your actions had a much more dramatic impact on her than you think/thought.
It does not mean that you are 100% at fault. But it is very important, especially right now, that you own up to your role in the breakdown of this M.
ALL you control is you. Now is the time to put the work into understanding and correcting your shortcomings as a H. You can't do that unless you own up to it.
So IF you were belittling, controlling or whatever else, take responsibility for it, own it, figure out why you were like that, and fix it. Now is the time.
You will learn as you go through this process, that by doing this ^^^, you can come out of this a better man regardless of what happens with your M. You can come out of this better prepared for your next R, whether that's with your W or with someone else.
So please don't discount what your W is saying to you.
So how do you respond when you hear these words from her? Do NOT defend right now. Listen and validate her feelings, listen and validate... and when your ears begin to bleed from all of the listening, listen some more!
You will gain nothing right now by defending yourself or arguing your points with her. I promise you.
Your goal right now is to communicate to your W, through actions not words, that you are LISTENING to her, that you understand her, and that you are capable of becoming that man that she originally fell in love with.
But you have to carefully balance this with what Starsky has told you... not being too available. I said in my last post that I suggest that you go LRT immediately. That means that you do not initiate contact with her, that you keep contact initiated by her short, you end conversations first... but you do not appear angry, depressed, or sad. Do that on your own time. Again, do not initiate R talk under any circumstances.
GAL (get a life). It serves two purposes IMO. 1) It will help you get through this and to maintain a positive mental attitude. 2) hopefully it will eventually cause your W to wonder what it is that you are doing... what it is that is making you happy in lieu of her presence in your life.
Lastly, my personal strong opinion, and others may disagree, is that you need to stall this D as long as you can. I do not mean that you become an a$s about it. Just don't do anything proactive to expedite it. You need to buy yourself as much time as possible.
Originally Posted By: suppo
Maybe my Cockiness/Self-Confidence in the past kept her attracted? Is that what you mean? And by being humble and weak, she finds that un-attractive?
I definitely don't want to be a doormat or push-over, but would still very much like to retain my marriage and make it stronger than before.
You have to regain some of your confidence, yes. Especially when you are around her or in contact with her. Fake it til you make it.
BUT... do not do this to the point where you become an a$shole with her.
You need to become the man that she fell in love with... the better man if there is an OM involved. That man certainly is not an a$shole. Get my drift?
Originally Posted By: suppo
Not too mention my kids have taken very highly to some of the 180's that I have done. My daughter is as intelligent as they come. She told me a few weeks back: "Daddy you weren't really as bad as Mommy said you are, she is just saying that to make herslef feel better about leaving".
Is your daughter a member of this board?! LOL... She's exactly right. Your W is looking for things to validate her decision. That's very, very common for the WAS to do.
Also, it plays into some of the stuff that I talk about above. DO NOT give her other reasons that validate her decision to leave. Give her reasons to hesitate in her decision.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I truly respect what both of you have said & have read a lot. I definitely don't want to downgrade my actions & how I acted after my slow fade into the dark due to the BK/Layoff. I will never make excuses for my behavior and own full responsibility for my actions. I have already recognized my shortcomings & have voiced them to her when this first happened, and never truly meant to act/respond the way I did about money etc...I was truly in a dark place & wish I could go back to change my behavior, but we all wish we could've, should've, would've!
The positive thing is that I recognize what I did wrong, but the negative thing is that it took her dropping a bomb for me to come out of the slump!
Emotion wise I have been all over the place for the last 5 months! Has any of you wanted to just give up and throw in the towel early on??
I am trying to detach as much as I can & keep it to just txt/contact about the kids, but I won't lie and say it hasn't been an internal struggle. Part of me wants to just give up and let her go her own way. Another part of me wants this to work out so we can get back to being the family that we once were, but better!
I have truly spent too much time since the beginning pursuing & whining, which definitely didn't help. Now that i have read DR & found the board, along with you guys, I am ready to get to some serious DBing.
Denver,
I am 100% positive that my actions weren't cool and uncalled for, but I can't go back and do it over. I have asked for forgiveness & have apologized more than enough thus far for my shortcomings. I have truly owned up to it & have not defended myself one bit.
I do need advice on the "D" however! She has retained an attorney & hand delivered paperwork to me on my B-Day last week, but it didn't have any case number assigned to it. What she stated is that she wanted to mediate this out of court and not drag things through the mud due to the children. I have had the paperwork now for 1 week and have reviewed it thoroughly. I am not sure how long I can drag it out before I respond or give it back to her because it hasn't officially been filed with a case number. Georgia & county law states that you have 30 days to respond if it's been filed, but this hasn't truly been filed. I don't want this and told her that I will not assist in the process. Funny thing is, that I paid for her lawyer when she skimmed the bank account to pay for it.
I have made my changes to the paperwork in pencil & want to give it to her to take back to her lawyer to redraft with the changes. If she does, & has her lawyer redraft with my changes, then I will review and see if any more changes need to be made. Funny how they ask for everything on the initial paperwork, like we are gonna be cool with it. She hasn't said anything about it, but she did say when she dropped it off that she expected me to take more time than is needed to read/respond & give back to her. Such high regard & confidence she has in me...LoL... I consider myself a very intelligent person and she knows this, as she considers me intelligent too, so I know that she probably never expected me to sign & agree to what she had her lawyer type up. I honestly would probably sign the paperwork if her/lawyer accepted my changes! Not sure that would help my situation, but it would give her what she thinks she wants at this moment.
A lot more thoughts in my head to post, with a lot more advice needed, but I don't want to inundate ya'll with too much rambling/babbling at once...
I'd advise you to look into getting legal counsel for yourself. I'm an attorney and can't advise that you proceed without counsel; especially since she already has an attorney.
Otherwise, the paperwork is a tough issue. Personally, I would not have signed any paperwork had my W asked me to early on in our S.
She did ask me if I would go to the court to file together. Our exchange was:
W: "well, you can file for D with me to save time. I'm free tomorrow, Friday, and m-Th next week... you are deceitful and I cannot trust you. We will never work again. That is reality. ..."
My response: "I've told you before that I still love u and still think that we an have a great life together as both a couple and a family. I have not changed my mind on that. But I understand that you are not happy, that u don't feel happy or complete inside. U need to do what will make u happy. By my side, we can be partners and will share everything and we would do anything to help one another. But that's only if we continue as a team. but I won't stand in your way, but also won't help u leave this marriage or our family. I hope that u do find happiness u r looking for. go do what u need to do. You know where I will be."
I included her words just to give you context of how bad my sitch was at the time. Good times.
Anyway, my point is that I was not going to help her with the D in any way. I decided early on that I needed to buy as much time as I could. I did this knowing that I risked making her angry. To me, it was choosing between two options, neither of which were good. It wasn't just the physical work of filing that I was counting on. It was the emotional work that I knew it would require of her. Now, your sitch is a bit different, because your W has an attorney and my W did not. But I don't see why you don't have the same option here. You could sit on the paperwork and wait until you hear from her or her attorney. When you do, you could give her a similar line that i gave my W. OR... you could go along with things and provide the edited version of the paperwork. It is a tough call. I don't think that you have a GOOD move here. You have to pick which you think is the least bad move. Hate to put it that way, but it is reality.
Personally, I'd go with sitting on the paperwork and making her do the work. To me, that says that you are fighting for your M, whereas the other says that you are giving in. That's just me.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Wow, I'm also a newbie here. I've been reading the posts on this site often and have read DB. I'm amazed at how similar your W words were to my W words after also going through the initial phase of begging, pursuing, crying, etc. Things quickly moved from talk of a S to D very rapidly. I'm sure due to me doing all the wrong things at first.
My W is leaving me as I type this. She also said she plans to file next week. I failed to stay the course, and immediately begged her to give us some time. Ouch!!! She quite simply told me "It would be best if you tried to move on".
I remain hopeful that things can turn around if I seek and adhere myself to the advice of the many vets on this site.
I will be following your sitch, and at some point seek some advice in mine. I hope and pray that you find some things that work for you, and hope to gather some great advice as I read about your developments.
I cant agree more. I found myself in exactly where you are now. One revision on the settlement. I should have dragged my feet more. But after knowing her for 33 years, married for 29, I knew she wouldn't stop until she got what she wanted. So I gave up. Dont you do that! I have never been more miserable in my life. Hang on for all your worth!
I cant agree more. I found myself in exactly where you are now. One revision on the settlement. I should have dragged my feet more. But after knowing her for 33 years, married for 29, I knew she wouldn't stop until she got what she wanted. So I gave up. Dont you do that! I have never been more miserable in my life. Hang on for all your worth!
