"That's a nice cutesy sentiment, but this is substantially different. "
No. It sticks to the point.
Well you are entitled to your opinion. That's for sure.
I do think it's important. I think your thinking could leave people stuck. I stand by my assestment that people like you need the SO to admit wrong doing - regardless of what they feel.
BTW you kinda sidestepped a good portion of what i was saying. Nice job.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
"BTW you kinda sidestepped a good portion of what i was saying. Nice job."
Actually I didn't understand what you were saying. It didn't seem to match anything I posted. I didn't give it much thought because a) this is Denver's "Piecing" thread, so he should be posting his updates here, and b) we aren't his W, so there's no point in guessing what she's going through or expecting certain results.
"I stand by my assestment that people like you need the SO to admit wrong doing - regardless of what they feel."
Mindread much?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I wish we knew more about her IC, and the kind of advice she was getting there.
Me too Starsky. I don't ask her about it. It is her's. When she does open up about it, which is not often, this is what I have learned, again, not much:
1) She believes that we would not be where we are without her IC;
2) That it allowed her to realize an issue separate from my own actions, that caused problem in our R/M - That she has 2 sides to her. 1) the side of her that is a free spirit, that wants to pursue her music career, travel, spend time with her friends, etc. This side was not being attended to in our former R. She felt like she was in my shadow. and 2) the side of her that wants to be a wife, a mom, a homemaker, etc. She thought for a while after leaving me that she no longer wanted this. But the truth was that she began to feel trapped on this side bc side #1 was being neglected.
Since we have decided to R, we have agreed to make sure that both sides are given attention. I'm absolutely fine with this. I want her to be happy, be able to be the person who she truly is, grow as a person, and not feel trapped with the idea that her life has to be lived as society may tell us that it needs to be lived. In fact, I have a side of me that is like this.
3) That she has worked on learning some tools to handle anger, frustration and disappointment. So far, this has been very evident.
4) That she has discussed processing forgiveness for me and the hurt that I caused her in the past.
5) That she has discussed why she latched onto OM after leaving me. Basically a fear of being alone. She has told me that she has always believed that she would end up alone. She believed this because she didn't think anyone would want her after having her son so young. When she met me, she felt that maybe she wouldn't be alone. But then I took advantage of that by using the fear of being alone against her... me believing that she wouldn't leave me regardless of what i did or how I treated her. OM filled that void when she left me.
6) she has learned to better deal with a very difficult child (my SS) and his issues.
Enough you two! LOL! I don't mind my thread being used for the back and forth at all. But the problem is that there is no RIGHT answer. There are hundreds of thousands of variables that affect how a situation should be handled... plus, people have different opinions on what and when something is acceptable, excusable, or whatever... and what is not.
There are at least 2 approaches to how people can DB. It has become pretty clear to me over the past 19 months that neither is 100% right or wrong.
Anyhow...
So kind of a rough day for me. After posting last night to Starsky's wish to know more about what my W was talking about in IC, I just happened to stumble upon my W's diary today.
In the spirit of wanting to know and understand my situation completely, I decided to read it. Actually, that was just my excuse... I was snooping clear and simple.
There was no entries from recent months. But plenty of entries in the couple of months prior to W leaving me.
Some of the highlights:
She was clearly considering leaving me months prior to announcing it. Says she has thought about it "thousands of times".
She talks about being lonely all of the time. Whether or not she can continue life like that. Whether it's worth it just because she committed to be my W. That it isn't what she thought life would be like.
In October, the month before she left, it gets worse. She talks a lot of feeling guilty about her strong thoughts of leaving me. Guilty because she has committed to me... her vows, etc.
There is no mention of OM. Only how she feels unloved in life, "especially by my husband".
At the very end of October, days before she abruptly announced that she was 'done' in our last MC session, she states:
"I feel like I'm going crazy. My mind is all over the place. I feel so lonely, but guilty about my thoughts of leaving. I'm afraid of leaving. Afraid that it is somehthing I will regret for the rest of my life. Afraid of losing him. But afraid to stay with him. It is a risk. But staying is a risk too. I am so lost. I truly am."
I think that about sums it up. Was very hard to read.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Masochistic I guess Starsky. I'm okay though. I do think knowing these things makes me understand more clearly, which makes me appreciate more how far I've come... and what I need to do to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
THAT got me laughing out loud for a good 3 or 4 minutes Jack! Thanks!
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
That was a long time ago. Look at the dates. And KNOW that is NOT how she feels right now.
You know better now. Not to do that...not that. I believe there is a huge difference in verifying trust, and looking fo pain.
You found pain.
You got ways and means to talk if you need to. BUT this will pass. This is a bad dream past things ok? It's not the here and now...
You need help with this, that was how she felt back then its...good insight even if you feel like your picking up your entrails off the floor.
I'm okay. Seriously. It made me sick to my stomach for a couple of hours, but I quickly recovered by thinking and knowing exactly what you said. That that is not how she feels now. That it is the past.
I do believe that it is good information. Like I said to Starsky, knowing is understanding.
Besides, it really isn't new information. She's told me this is how she felt. It was just hard reading those words knowing how sad, empty and lost that she must have felt when she wrote them. I NEVER intended to make her feel like that. It hurts to know that I caused her that kind of pain. But, again, knowing is understanding... and I will make sure to never do that again.
Going through what I have, has made me understand what "to cherish" your W means. I've had to face, and accept that I did not cherish her, love her like she deserved... and I've had to forgive myself for that.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I'm a woman with a long DB history and a bit of emotions played out in the early days, that Michele helped me with.
One of the last things you EVER want to do is read a woman's diary. You cannot take every word seriously. We play with every random thought. Not to discount your wife. But please don't work with the past. Work with the future.
Michele personally gave me a LOT of advice in the early days. Most of it was around reigning (sp?) in my inner thoughts/emotions relative to my interactions with my then boyfriend (2 relationships after my divorce) and he is my current partner, and we are happier than ever, 11 years later. A DB homegrown relationship, so to speak.
I've observed you from time to time. You've got this.
ACTIONS. Not every thought or feeling or discussion or emotion.
WHAT SHOULD BE YOUR FOCUS NOW???? REAL GIVING....WITHOUT A DOUBT AND UNEQUIVOCABLY....MAKE YOUR WIFE HAPPY.
This is not about setting, affirming boundaries. I assure you that you have your stance better than some that give you advice. Now is the time to learn about what makes her happy and give it with abandon. That's what my partner does. And it's what I am trying to do for him.
You will come through. You will be that really old-ass couple where you were thesuccessful lawyer hot shot and she was the hot ass singer chick..... but now, she's still hot and you follow her around in the belize grocery store carrying her goods and you go back to your place and you chill....and she makes you happy because she's so happy that you have her back.
YOU are the HERO here.
Batman or Robin. You are the hero.
One of your ACTIONS should be listening to your wife. But you are not in the phase of trying to figure out how to be better than the OM. You've GOT THAT.
Now--
You are going into the realm some DBers NEVER GET TO. The real [censored] of piecing...and THEN.... KEEPING THE CHANGES GOING.
You are counting on YOU. Your WIFE is COUNTING ON YOU. We all are counting on you.
But you are capable. Better than that, you will deliver the goods.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
I have read through and followed this thread thoroughly! I have learned from the advice & also learned that even though all situations are similar, there are different things that work for different people/personalities...I am by no means in any position to give advice given my own current situation, but I would definitely want to be where you are today Denver! To have a chance at true reconciliation & to have grown & realized what is truly important would be ideal for many of us on here. You are one lucky man to have a second chance at what you truly want. I applaud you for how you have handled yourself & truly hope/pray that I am where you are at some day (second chance).
On another note: You guys have me rolling on the floor with your recent posts and whatnot about reading the diary
