In home separation? Off / On? Still WAW? Dunno

[YankeeCandle]

I'm also wondering how Uni changed you and whether your W was included in that development of yours?? How would you be able to include her, you might ask? Through communicating with her, through bringing her to things you were doing, through introducing her to the new people you met, through helping her feel comfortable in all the Uni life - which she was not attending herself. Don't get me wrong, it's important that you pursued your Uni OF COURSE! You need to develop yourself and have your own life. It enriches all R's for each S to have their own lives, it's just how it is handled that is the important thing.

Does she continue to not feel included in your life? If so, this is a tough one to crack Bill, and could take time to overcome.

Sometimes a woman having her own life in a M (and not willing to really include her H, or not wanting to change anything for her H) is because she is asserting her own independence as a reaction to her H leaving her out of his life for so long. This is her resentment in action.

I'm wondering if this dynamic is playing a part in this scenario.

[breakdownbill]

Hi Yankee

Thanks for going back over my thread and calling me out on a few things.

Anyway...this is the classic pattern in soooo many relationships - mine included. I was communicating (I realise now), in a manner that did not enable him to hear me. It got his defenses up so quickly he never heard a word I said, and decided to also carry on down the cheeseless tunnels himself. Unbeknownst to me, I was reinforcing the very patterns I was wanting to break - but then so was he. But, a lot of people do this. Like, a LOT!

It's not just your wife Bill. I mean, how long was she complaining for, or hinting at things needing to change? Going to an OM is the last resort for feeling validated

I think I may have been coming over on here focusing on my wife's faults in the M, I know it wasn't so one sided & I have lived with that guilt since the bomb.

I'm not looking back anymore at seeing how or where I went wrong anymore, well at least not in a fixer's way of thinking anyway.

My W was the caretaker of the R and I did get lazy in terms of our R, but you have to remember my sitch is quite different. I got lazy with the R partly because my W got lazy with the day to day running of a house with 2 kids.

At the time of going back to UNI & up until the last few months of my course I was working 5 nights a week until midnight, doing voluntary teaching assistant work, plus doing pretty much all the housework whilst trying to study and spend time with the kids.

I was stretched & no matter how many times me & my W had a conversation about her pulling her wait more in the house of an evening, things never changed.

I was constantly tired, most of the time I couldn't be bothered going out & my labido was shot because I was constantly tired & stressed.

What made things worse in this situation was that if I had missed something with my cleaning / tidying up, my W would choose to criticise me whilst watching TV & then when I got home from work @ Midnight there would be loads of dirty cups & plates lying around & the kids uniforms & packed lunches were left to me to either do them in the morning or when I got home from work.

When your routine is this dull & draining it takes it out of you. I wish I'd have stopped trying to do everything & put my foot down then instead of avoiding confrontation with my W.

Sometimes a woman having her own life in a M (and not willing to really include her H, or not wanting to change anything for her H) is because she is asserting her own independence as a reaction to her H leaving her out of his life for so long. This is her resentment in action.

I'm wondering if this dynamic is playing a part in this scenario.

I'd go along with this observation, because after a few months in my 1st year at UNI is when she started doing the dancing.

I was thinking the other day about how I have this list of things that if my W does, will convince me that she is committed to giving it another go.

1. wear rings again
2. Stop dancing with OM & all contact
3. Ask's me to do something with her alone (even if it's just going for a coffee).

Now my W may or may not have some kind of list of things that she wants me to do before she would commit to giving it another go also.

This is going down the road of mind reading so I'll stay away from that.

What I am doing right now is re-reading the DR book since I have become detached to try & refresh my mind on DB techniques & understand them a bit better with how things are now as opposed to how they were when I first read them. (couldn't hurt huh?)

I've just got to remember that it's all about me and my kids right now (and my friends & family). Whilst my W is still in contact & dancing with the OM I am not prepared to commit myself to anything other than co-parenting & friendship with my W, regardless of how she's the sitch.

Thanks for the jolt in the arm though Yankee, I think I needed that & to look at my sitch again from my W's perspective now that I am detached enough to be rational about it all.

Bill

[chatterbug]

I think I would add to that list.

4. Stops being so selfish.
5. Pulls her weight.
6. Follows through on commitment.
7. Realizes her shortcomings need to be worked on.
8. Figures out boredom is no excuse to sleep with another man.


Serious Bill did you two talk about school and work and how it would be a grind for you?

When did she ever offer getting an additional job so you did not have to work so much so you two could afford a maid service to come once a week?

Come on.... Do not cover for her on this.

[breakdownbill]

Yep these are good additions to that list

4. Stops being so selfish.
5. Pulls her weight.
6. Follows through on commitment.
7. Realizes her shortcomings need to be worked on.
8. Figures out boredom is no excuse to sleep with another man

You know what I'd never even thought about getting a cleaner in, but that would have been a massive help even if it was just for a couple of hours once a week.

My W did change her hours from part time in the evening to full time in the daytime and I would spend most weekends towards the end of my course terms in the library while she had the kids on her own.

However, this was because she didn't want to put in the effort with the day to day stuff and that's why I'd end up needing to cram loads of work in during weekends away from her & the kids.

I think the way she is won't change unless she has to, in reality that means me not being there.

I used to think if we went to MC we'd be able to address some of these issues, now I think it would take a lot more than that, but it would still be worthwhile and a good start.

[DaddyLongShanks]

Yep these are good additions to that list

4. Stops being so selfish.
5. Pulls her weight.
6. Follows through on commitment.
7. Realizes her shortcomings need to be worked on.
8. Figures out boredom is no excuse to sleep with another man

You know what I'd never even thought about getting a cleaner in, but that would have been a massive help even if it was just for a couple of hours once a week.

My W did change her hours from part time in the evening to full time in the daytime and I would spend most weekends towards the end of my course terms in the library while she had the kids on her own.

However, this was because she didn't want to put in the effort with the day to day stuff and that's why I'd end up needing to cram loads of work in during weekends away from her & the kids.

I think the way she is won't change unless she has to, in reality that means me not being there.

I used to think if we went to MC we'd be able to address some of these issues, now I think it would take a lot more than that, but it would still be worthwhile and a good start.

She sounds like nothings going to change because why should she have to. She's got a self centered viewpoint that assumes that you won't leave and if you do, then you do. She's up to this point is not going to work on it, and you are saying for yourself you are seeing how she took advantage of some of the things out of your control to distance herself.

[YankeeCandle]

Thanks for your thoughtfulness in these answers.

Anyway you look at this Bill, both of you had your hands full - though perhaps more you than her. It's quite easy to see why the M took the back seat.

So yeah, it's probably not worth looking back anymore (though these issues would at some point need to be ironed out if things got back on track).

Yes, it's probably best to carry on with your plan. I had hoped that there was some little thing that might shed light on her unwillingness to recommit, but from what you say here, I can't see anything. So, maybe it really is just that she is comfortable with the status quo and you moving out will certainly rock that boat.

I hope all is well on the organisation front

[breakdownbill]

Hi YC

Yeah it's easy to look back on things & blame this & blame that, but if I'm honest the R took a back seat to everything else in our lives. This is a mistake I'm learning from & would never want to repeat in any future relationships.

I'm not focusing on moving out, more moving on and getting back in touch with me again.

I'll be focused solely on my course & kids and it's not in my interests to force any moves in either direction.

Financially, Physically & Emotionally it is not a good time for me to move out, get a legal separation or file. I need to focus on my course, my kids & my well being. If my W wants to push ahead with any of these options then I will have to react to them.

One thing I feel really strongly about which includes my friends & family who give me support, is that it should be me in control of any timeline that affects me and not be influenced by anyone else.

This is how I feel today & have felt for the past 4 - 6 weeks, but as we all know things can change, things can happen in your sitch that demand immediate action.

I have noticed the dynamic changing between my W and I, in terms of pursuer & distancer. She seems a lot warmer and has even invited me out a couple of times with the kids lately.
I'm not letting my guard down, because I'm sure it's just her way of enticing me in, so I will pursue her.

My kids have just gone out with their nan for a couple of hours, so I'm gonna fit my 2nd run of the week in.

There's a great free app on android & Iphone called my fitness pal which is really helping me stay on track this week & worth checking out.

Bill

[chatterbug]

i gotta get my first in.... I missed my tuesday run...

I normally run 3 times a week. and then I play around in a pool 6 to 10 times a week. Especially after a run.


Need to get back into core training as well.

[breakdownbill]

I've been pretty slack with my fitness over the last couple of months, but i'm determined to get out and do at least 3 runs a week now - plus a good couple of hours on my new bike.

I got a specialized crosstrail comp and it's by far the best bike I've ever been on.

I'm easing my way back into it just doing 3 miles on my run - want to up that to 5 over the next 3 weeks.

I prefer going out in the morning before breakfast or last thing at night.

Make sure you try and fit a run in tonight or in the morning :-)

Bill

[breakdownbill]

Been out on my bike today & did a comfortable 10 miles which was nice in the sun

Earlier today my was flirting with me a bit, trying things on & I have to admit she did look good.

Since I've pulled way back we haven't ML in about 5 weeks & as much as I don't want to potentially get dragged back into limbo, I don't know how much longer my will power will last.

I don't want to undo any good progress (personal growth) by sleeping with my W, because I run the risk of being dragged back in. (If I was a DB Jedi I could do both )

I will not cheat on my W, because I honour my vows & I know how it feels to be on the wrong end of it.

What would DB-MAN do?

Bill