MrBond, Thanks for trying to help I was really emotional and some what hormonal (sorry TMI) which surprised me because that is sketchy for me due to some medical issues. I chilled for the weekend which helped, did some girlie stuff and had some wine.
As for my last post, I know we all make mistakes and I don't deny that he wasn't perfect, I absolutely have my complaints but what I was going through was completely unfair to him. Yes, our MC and my IC know what my issues were and what I'm working on and that I have guilt and remorse associated with the years of severe depression. They know I accept responsibility for the damage I caused. I also know that I didn't make him have an EA+ but I certainly paved the road and marked it with huge arrows pointing the direction.
I think I'm releasing my anger toward my H, I know it will take more than this epiphany a couple of days ago. I have noticed that when we have contact I am less on edge. Maybe, H moving out was something I needed too. I'm trying hard to work the DR. I get so confused though. It's confusing to try and figure out what, of all things I'm reading, is the right approach. I've read 5LL, HTIYMWTAI, Co-dependent no more (reading now), DR, communication miracles, passionate marriage, sexually confident wife, sex-starved marriage, his needs her needs... I've been on so many sites my head is spinning. I admit DR spoke to me the most and HTIYMWTAI provided great insight into the basic motivations of male/female interactions. 5LL just confused me after that, it definitely held great information but seems counter to DR.
I have trouble with trying to figure out what I should and shouldn't do. If he offers up information about his plans can I ask the duration? We have a very inquisitive 6yo S and likes to know when he can see his Dad. Can I ask how long he'll be away? When he has our S at his new place can I ask what they discussed as far as was said about the new place? I know he is telling S that it is the "guys clubhouse" and that it's there secret (secrets are a big thing for S right now) but has he told S that he is staying at the clubhouse all the time? Do we need to be on the same page when it comes to answering questions for S? Does it all seem like I'm using my S as an excuse to dig for information? I don't know what the right answer is here. He needs his space and privacy to figure things out, what side do I err on? Is it ok to continue to tell S that I don't know or I'm not sure? Maybe I'll wait and ask this question in our MC session. Should I just leave it alone? This is my life sometimes. I'm trying to read Co-dependent no more and indecisiveness and not trusting myself or trying to make decisions to cause change of some sort in H seems to be an issue. It's a tough read for me though.
This site really has be a great source of support and information but I do think I've been relying on it too much. Being here instead of spending time on figuring out how to GAL. I do mostly solitary things. It's hard for me to make new friends and the friends I do have live far from here. I need to figure out how to change that and GALing will be easier. That means being away from this computer and getting out of the house.
Goals for this next week; I will get the paperwork for volunteering at my S's school turned in. I will figure out how to fit running back into my life so I can start my C25K program again. Get better running shoes (shin splints blow). Try to get together with a friend and not talk about my sitch (if that friend has knowledge of it).
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
It does get very confusing, sometimes you have to stop reading and start living. I got to that point.
The books you are reading are complementary but some are for different time in a R. While Passionate Marriage and SSM are great, you aren't in an intimate R right now, so let that go.
I think 5LL dovetails with DR in that if you know what H's LLs are you can perhaps respond in those ways when you do interact. Words of Affirmation is one of my H's so I try to affirm him at every chance I get.(I was not very good at this before).
HTIYMWTAI is great to gain understanding of the dynamic in most Rs and should also help you in what interactions you do have with H. The others I haven't read but like most things in life-take what you can use and leave the rest.
My conceptual framework in the early days was to remove myself from H as much as possible so that all the ugly stuff that he related to me would recede and give the good parts of our M to fill those spaces. The more he was with me, the more he would remember the bad stuff. And it gave me the opportunity to work on myself and not have to worry abut how I presented to him.
Did it work, I think so. We're still separated but are now communicating more as friends and parents. I'm good with that for now.
AS far as the questions, when you're unsure about asking it's probably good not to ask unless there is a definite need for you to know. I would always question my motives in initiating and interaction or asking a question.
One thing I did need to know was if H was out of town out of cell reach (his work takes him to the back of beyond for weeks at a time). I needed a way to contact him if anything happened with our sons and they would need him if anything happened to me.
So do a self-check when you want to ask a question. Is there a legitimate life/death reason I need to know this information.
I'm sure you tell S you don't know or aren't sure about other subjects. He'll be fine with it or he'll begin to ask H more about what's going on.
One of the hardest things is letting your S and H have their own R as they see fit. Believe it or not, they will work it out. It might not be what you would create for them but it's theirs and it will work for them. It may be rocky at times, all Rs are, but that's part of the journey.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
It does get very confusing, sometimes you have to stop reading and start living. I got to that point.
The books you are reading are complementary but some are for different time in a R. While Passionate Marriage and SSM are great, you aren't in an intimate R right now, so let that go.
Good advice, thank you
I think 5LL dovetails with DR in that if you know what H's LLs are you can perhaps respond in those ways when you do interact. Words of Affirmation is one of my H's so I try to affirm him at every chance I get.(I was not very good at this before).
I can see that. I thought I knew what his LL was now I'm not so sure. I have to see it I can figure it out without his participation.
HTIYMWTAI is great to gain understanding of the dynamic in most Rs and should also help you in what interactions you do have with H. The others I haven't read but like most things in life-take what you can use and leave the rest.
I agree with this, this book was very enlightening and helped me understand a lot about myself and H. Why we and how we got to this crazy place.
My conceptual framework in the early days was to remove myself from H as much as possible so that all the ugly stuff that he related to me would recede and give the good parts of our M to fill those spaces. The more he was with me, the more he would remember the bad stuff. And it gave me the opportunity to work on myself and not have to worry abut how I presented to him.
I think this is where I'm headed, I'm working on myself and have been from the very beginning, it's the backing off thing that's been difficult, we have a small house and were on top of each other until he moved out 10 days ago. I hope it gives him the space he needs. I think I'm finding I needed the space too.
Did it work, I think so. We're still separated but are now communicating more as friends and parents. I'm good with that for now.
AS far as the questions, when you're unsure about asking it's probably good not to ask unless there is a definite need for you to know. I would always question my motives in initiating and interaction or asking a question.
Right now I am unsure about everything. Maybe is just time to be quite, no questions, no matter what.
One thing I did need to know was if H was out of town out of cell reach (his work takes him to the back of beyond for weeks at a time). I needed a way to contact him if anything happened with our sons and they would need him if anything happened to me.
That type of sitch is coming up this weekend, I feel like if I ask if there is a way I can get a hold of him if there is an with S I'm snooping or pushing or clingy... I really don't want that.
So do a self-check when you want to ask a question. Is there a legitimate life/death reason I need to know this information.
I'll keep this in mind, thank you.
I'm sure you tell S you don't know or aren't sure about other subjects. He'll be fine with it or he'll begin to ask H more about what's going on.
I do, I just hate it. I tell him all the time that daddy's new job keeps him working very hard.
One of the hardest things is letting your S and H have their own R as they see fit. Believe it or not, they will work it out. It might not be what you would create for them but it's theirs and it will work for them. It may be rocky at times, all Rs are, but that's part of the journey.
I don't interfere with H and S's relationship, he's a great dad, I think that is one of the things that make me so sad, all of our drama has created pain in our son's life. Although he still believes H still lives at home he misses H because he doesn't "get home" before S is asleep. This really sux.
I hope this response works.
LA, thank you for responding, this is really difficult as you know. I feel things slipping away, I can tell if it's real or not.
He's away this weekend and I'm away the next, we won't have MC for the next couple of weeks due to schedule conflicts. Either he'll get further away and more determined to leave or he'll miss me and things will stay the same. He's the stubborn sort, if he feels justified in his position it's hard to move him off of it. That takes a very compelling argument that is well supported.
I'm still working toward forgiveness, I don't think I really get mad anymore, especially since last Friday when I broke down, it's really just frustration because I'm not getting what I want. When I realize it I'm able to stop and change the direction of my thoughts.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
Yes, it's scary when you think you're losing something but you have no control of the outcome, only yourself. Let is slip away.
I know that sounds crazy but holding on only hurts you. For all intents and purposes the marriage you had is over. Let it go.
Work on building a new you and a new R with H, even if only as a respectful co-parent at this point.
When he goes away, will he have his cell phone and will you be able to contact him in that way? If so, I wouldn't ask him about his trip. He will most likely see that as control and interference.
If you don't know how to reach him then ask: In an emergency, how can I reach you while you're away?
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it's really just frustration because I'm not getting what I want. When I realize it I'm able to stop and change the direction of my thoughts.
This is good, keep working on at it. When you can begin to believe that you can be happy with or without H, this will go away. That doesn't mean you won't be in a R with him but that you can be happy either way.
Did I mention the livestrong list about detaching? I had that hanging on my fridge for a long time, just to remind me of my goal.
What is your impression of Co-dependent No More?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Intellectually I'm right there with you on all points. I know the old relationship is over and we need to build something new whatever that is (as H&W or co-parents), I know that I can be happy with or without him at some point. I can see all of that and understand all of it when I think about it and try to keep emotion out of it but when I miss him (always), see him, have a genuinely nice interaction with him, look at my son and think about the potential pain in his future intellect is lost in a tsunami of emotion. I'm working on it, I promise I am. I'm just having a very hard time with that battle.
As for H going away this weekend, he specifically pointed out that the website for whatever he's doing stated that there is no cell or internet service. I don't know if that means just during the day while he's in class or all the time he will be away. If he will eventually get messages then I don't think I need an additional way to contact him.
The thing that bugs the crap out of me is my suspicion, why does my mind go there? I can reason with myself and logically determine that he will not be seeing OW this weekend but the suspicion is still there. If I say anything about my though process about things like this he automatically stops or changes all plans that have given me what ever slim reason to be suspicion. Then he is angry at me for making him change plans he had made. I no longer give voice to my suspicions but I still have then. Is this an "act as if" thing? Ignore my suspicion and act as if he is doing exactly what he says hes doing and don't read into anything?
I've read through livestrong's thread a while back but I've read so many I don't really know who to associate with what. I'll search that thread and find that information.
Codependent no more - that is a hard book to read. I'm reading it but for whatever reason I can't get into it. I hope I learn what I need to from it. I'm still working my way through it.
Thank you again LA, hope you are having a great day.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
LA, Mis-understood what you meant by livestrong. Googling it now.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
It's almost 2 weeks since H moved out. He was here last night to hang with S and have dinner. No stress that I could sense. He left on a good note, I even helped bag a few things up he needed at his new place. We even said goodbye, I'm usually upstairs when he leaves. Today, we had playful back and forth via text and email. I made contact but it was for information (contractor bids and asking if he had something I couldn't find). That was a "but" statement. It truly wasn't an excuse, promise.
No expectations but it feels good.
Breathe, enjoy, release...
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
Well he was crabby tonight. S had Tae Kwon Do belt testing then H came over to hang for a while and eat dinner. I did manage to "detach". H got frustrated helping S with homework and instead of saying don't worry about it I'll do, I let him continue to stress out until he said to S that I (me) would help him with that page. Normally I would try to calm the situation down because H can get a little spun up but I let him be his own regulator. Something I didn't expect was that I realized he didn't have anything to be angry at me about. He couldn't lash out at me because I was butting in. I'm not really sure how to explain this. Normally, if I were to step in it would give him the opening to get mad at me for making him feel like he wasn't capable of keeping his temper under control when frustrated at our S. Believe me it is not hard to get frustrated with S(6) but we are both working on it. Today was especially trying due to belt testing and homework and dinner and... Why do 2nd graders have so much homework, geez.
Anyway, In reading a lot of threads on this site I've noticed that the roller coaster of nice/sweet/funny WAS is heavily tempered by the angry/short/moody WAS.
Breathe No expectations
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
Ok, I need help with a really bad habit of mine. If I sense my H is displeased with something regarding my actions. If he notices something wrong before I do or before I have a chance to correct it I feel instant guilt and apologize, usually try to "explain" (excuse). I really hate this about myself but it almost seems reflexive. I don't think he is looking for an apology, I don't think it's his issue at all. Here is an example; last night H was helping S with homework, he looked through the rest of the homework package and found a page that was incomplete that I had not noticed. He said something (a little snotty) and looked at me with, what I call, his your such an idiot look. I immediately jumped into an explanation and eventually just apologize.
I'm not accusing my H of anything here. This is my problem. I think most of these situations could be turned around, I could use a different approach and diffuse the tension I instantly feel. The only thing I can think of is instead of excuses and apologies I could say something like "it's a good thing you looked or saw or whatever, it's helpful to have a second set of eyes, thanks"
Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm reading codependent no more and it's helped me recognize some behaviors I have but for some reason I'm having trouble getting through it.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
He said something (a little snotty) and looked at me with, what I call, his your such an idiot look.
Is the snotty-condescending something new, or is there a history of this sort of treatment? Do you think you're being hypersensitive, or do you think he IS being snotty and condescending?
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I immediately jumped into an explanation and eventually just apologize.
Nip that in the bud. You made an honest, innocent mistake and had nothing to apologize for. You should not have been made to feel (in so far as anybody *makes* anybody feel anything) stupid or guilty. And guilt is a choice.
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I'm not accusing my H of anything here. This is my problem. I think most of these situations could be turned around, I could use a different approach and diffuse the tension I instantly feel. The only thing I can think of is instead of excuses and apologies I could say something like "it's a good thing you looked or saw or whatever, it's helpful to have a second set of eyes, thanks"
If he really is being snotty and condescending and you are not being hypersensitive, then it is NOT your problem. He is treating you inappropriately and you are reacting/responding wrongly and you both are probably setting a really bad example for your son.
AND if this is the case, you might add to your *praise* for him noticing an innocent oversight of yours, something about him treating you and speaking to you appropriately and with respect ESPECIALLY in front of your son. They pick up on the smallest of things. It can be said calmly and nicely and is a boundary that we all need. There is no excuse for rudeness and snotty-condescending.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
