M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I have been through quite a bumpy roller coaster ride over the last month and I've been told many times (by the many patient, good people of this site) that getting DR was imperative. As I've said, it's now been ordered and I got the email from amazone.com that it was shipped 2 days ago. I hope to get it by the beginning of next week, especially so that holiday for the end of the holy month of Ramadan start in the middle of next week and that nothing is open during the following 10 days (even "international" couriers).
In the meantime, I'd like to talk about something with which I've been struggling. Detachment. How to lovingly detach?
At the beginning of my ordeal, or after I came back to this country, where my W was (she'd left 2 month before while I was away)I tried to detach and go dark in order to protect myself from harm, but this resulted in many uncomfortable moments. At that time, it looks like things backfired and for some reasons, W showed up furious one evening, and out of the blue, said she wanted a divorce. She went on that we weren't even friends anymore and that there was no point anyway as there was no way she would ever come back to me. She also said that we were incompatible and that she wanted to end the weirdness between us, among other things. I told her that I disagreed, that I didn't want a divorce but that I would think about it.
In the end, I waited and didn't do anything about it, and things calmed down and for now, the status quo seems acceptable. We talked about divorce one more time after that but in much more friendly terms, she asking me if it would make it easier for me, me saying it wouldn't make a difference but that if she wanted it she could have it but that she would have to do all the work because I wasn't going to help. She then said that she didn't need it either so that's where we are now.
The point to my story, is that ever since her 1st mentioning divorce, I've stopped being dark and tried to simply detach, while remaining loving (but no overly). I have had a hard time with it because when she responds with "kindness" or any form of "positive" emotion, I end up getting overly hopeful and start expecting things which she just isn't ready to give. Every single time, I fell on my face.
Today, while i was at my meditation class, something came to me when the teacher said to look at the world from a spectator point of view.
That is exactly what I do (now) when I drive in the busy traffic of this city (the 2nd worst bad traffic/bad drivers combination in the country). I used to get angry and yell at other drivers because they drove in ways which even drunk drivers in my own country wouldn't do. People drive against the traffic, a family of four on motorcycle with boxes, bags, a chicken and a goat driving while texting someone on their phone, the list goes on. Enough to make me lose my cool more than once and contribute to perhaps my W leaving because she didn't recognize the man she married. Part of my 180s was to control my anger and so far, I have been able to always keep calm when driving because I look at the scene with detachment. I'm looking at it like I was uninvolved, simply watching a play, or a movie. And of course, I make sure to safely stay out of the way of anything which might come at me. It has worked for over a months now. I've not lost it once.
But how do I apply this to my W? I am involved with her (or was). I don't have a relationship with the drivers but I had/want one with my W. So how can I detach the same way with my wife?
I tried to think of a similar situation where I was detached from a situation involving someone I love and then I though about my father.
I saw him over the summer, for the first time in 5 years and probably for the last time in my life. He smokes cigarettes after cigarettes and then goes for his oxygen because the second he stars moving, he starts wheezing.
I love him dearly, and he is doing something harmful to himself which will deprive me of his presence and which will hurt someone else I love, my mother.
Just like my wife, I love her dearly, and she is doing something harmful to herself which will deprive me of her presence and which will hurt someone else I love, my D8.
Yet, I am not affected by my father's behaviour. Why not?
I guess it's because of the inevitability of death. We all die and he has had a long life and we said our goodbyes before I left, knowing well that it would be the last time. There is finality. Acceptance. That is what I think it is.
How should I use this with W? I guess after thinking a long time, I came to the conclusion that I had to look at her situation the same way. As final. She is gone. It is finish. There is nothing I can do about it but to accept it. This marriage of ours is over and there is no going back to it.
Sounds harsh? It's the truth, though. And I always knew it. Now I can detach and still be loving to my W, the same way that I was with my dad. Don't take me wrong, both events sadden me but there simply is nothing that can be done about it.
With that in mind, now I can start to live my life, without expectations and perhaps even without fears of doing this or that wrong.
I am doing the 180s for myself and for my D8 and GAL for myself and for D8 and when W is around, I can still be who I want to be with her, which is kind and loving, the way one is towards an old grandma.
If one day, W decides to come back, I think we'll have to both have a look at who we are before committing to anything, and what ever relationship we might end up having will have to be a new one, with a new way of doing things. Of course, deep down, I hope for this and even, believe that it is a possibility but I'm not going to work on that right now. I'm going to work on getting me and D8 a life as exciting and fun filled as I can manage.
I've felt good all day, going through this thought process and I sure hope I can live by it.
I'll give you updates on my success.
Thanks for listening (I know it was very long, wasn't it?)
PS I know that this is exactly what many/most of you have been telling me. Thanks for being patient. I think I get it now. if I stray, please send me to this post, or feel free to quote it back to me.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I hijacked this from another thread and don't know how to do it properly, but Kaffe Diem posted it and it made sense to me:
Detachment is seen as being less emotionally attached to someone, their words, their actions... yet it seems people often miss what could be the bigger picture of detachment...
It is about understanding that our own personal contentment and happiness is about us and comes from within us...
IOW, when we are emotionally attached to someone (or something) we begin to believe that they are the reason for our happiness.This relates not just to our spouse, but also to a family member or even a friend. Just because you are not with your kids, your parents, your friends... does not mean that you cannot be happy... As it is... with our spouses...
With or without them...
And yet, we are still connected to... have a connection with... our kids, our parents, our friends...
When you know this, you can truly detach... when you truly detach, you will know this...
I struggle with this as well. Because we are so emotionally attached to our spouses, and it is scary to think that we are not because we may feel like we are giving up. And I've struggled with "act as if" because I was acting as if nothing was wrong, and with some of the LRT because I was seen as too distant, and with getting my hopes up after some small changes.
The key is to remember that the small changes are good but don't mean everything is back to normal. Wouldn't it be nice?
M44 H57 D17 (special needs) M 18 yrs Bomb 7/2/12 Still living together
It is about understanding that our own personal contentment and happiness is about us and comes from within us... I struggle with this as well. Because we are so emotionally attached to our spouses, and it is scary to think that we are not because we may feel like we are giving up. And I've struggled with "act as if" because I was acting as if nothing was wrong, and with some of the LRT because I was seen as too distant, and with getting my hopes up after some small changes.
The key is to remember that the small changes are good but don't mean everything is back to normal. Wouldn't it be nice?
I agree with this. Happiness does come from within. What we got from our S is like a drug and we got addicted to it but we can be happy by ourselves, weren't we before we met our S?
I understand how you feel. Sometimes, I feel that if I don't hurt, maybe I'm not in love anymore. the thing is, right now, we need to focus on ourselves and not worry about the outcome. Things are bad right now and the only thing that will change them is time and us working on ourselves. So that's what we need to do. Be patient and 180 + GAL.
Yeah, it would be nice, but stay positive and maybe it WILL be nice. No matter what, you'll be fine, and so will I.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Arsene - In answer to your question, your thread was locked due to being over 100 posts. Thanks for starting a new thread.
I haven't read all of your threads, but your last post on the latest thread by a longtime respected DBer mentioned you really are not on the DB track, haven't read DB/DR, etc.
That's ok....to help you understand the DB skillset, check out hte Keeping Love Alive or Divorce Remedy Forums. The skillsets/techniques are noted throughout.
The book's been ordered and I hope to get it by next week. I will look at the forums mentioned.
Cheers,
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Well, I just had my first try at lovingly detaching with my new "awakening" and although W was a bit distant, I managed to act "as if" very well. Actually, it wasn't really acting "as if" as it's was the way I really felt. I had my meditation class in the morning and spent quite a bit of time going through meditation techniques during the day so I felt strong and confident.
When wife got here, me and D8 were going over her math. This is stuff that my W doesn't see when she says that D8 is fine with all of this. D8 went from being an "A" student to struggling in most subjects. When I picked her up from school today, she was in remedial because she'd failed an exam and the teacher told me some of the problems she had.
I guess that tonight it hit W a bit because usually, she was the one taking care of math with D8 (I did English, science, religion and history - I never liked math and used to get impatient when trying to work on that with D8) and now, as W walked in D8 and me were having a good old time doing math together. When W arrived, I exclaimed to D8 "Great, here is our math teacher!!!" and tried to get W involved with one of the exercises which D8 didn't understand. I wanted to include her in our fun and she somewhat did but after a while, she became impatient with D8 and D8 stopped making an effort and became grumpy and "tantrumy". That kind of put an end to the math lesson.
D8 continued having fits of temper and eventually, when she calmed down, W gave her candies that she'd bought for her. This upsets me a bit usually because we never spoiled D8 with candies and toys every time we went out but now, it's like W always brings some sort of crummy little toy or candies or chocolate. It's not that I mind so much but D8 needs time with her mom more than she needs cheap plastic knickknacks or candies. Nonetheless, I acted "as if" I was excited about D8's treats and left the room to go and play my guitar and leave them alone in the common room.
After a while W and D8 came into the room and W laid down on the bed so I left the room to go and practice in the common room. Then, I saw D8 playing alone out of the room so I went to have a look in the bedroom and W was sleeping. She always looks tired and disheveled. I really feel for her and what she must be going through, but I wish she actually spent quality time with D8. I didn't show my disappointment. In fact, I tried to not feel disappointed and be empathic. It was difficult but i think I managed, somehow.
Then D8 and I had dinner together, W was invited to join and said she might but went back to sleep so D8 and I had dinner together. D8 again looked sad and sulky and I tried to cheers her up.
Finally W got up and now they are gone together to a neighbourhood fair where there is an inflatable "jumping castle". D8 loves that stuff and it seems to me that every time W picks her up that is where they go. I feel like I'm judging W again but I just wish they would spend time doing stuff "together". From what I hear, D8 goes in the "jumping castle" while W stays alone at a nearby food stand. They usually come back from there with more candies and cheap toys. I'd like to see the nurturing mother in her, but lately, she just isn't there.
Nonetheless, the whole point of this is to tell you that I'm doing fine with detachment, and I know, I am still judgmental but at least, I don't bring it up with her. In my meditation class I was told today to always try and see the positive in people. I am trying so hard to do so, but this woman isn't the woman I married. I hope she is still somewhere in there.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
BTW, yesterday I did have a talk with W about D8 meeting OM. I was calm for most of it and I started by saying that I felt hurt when I found out that D8 had met OM. I said that in my opinion, it might be better, for now, not to see OM when she is with D8. I said that D8 had a lot of issues to work out and that this was probably another confusing issue for her. W became defensive and said she didn't see a problem with it. She then attacked me by saying that I didn't trust her judgment. I then lost it a bit by going on the defensive saying that I did but I didn't think that now was the time. I then tried to STFU but I got dragged into a bit of an argument, always maintaining my calm but I was a bit argumentative.
In the end, this is what transpired from the discussion. W feels like everyone is telling her what to do. Most of her friends and colleagues disagree with what she is doing from what she says, I think the only one to agree is OM. She is very angry at the world and she took all of this out on me, as if it was my fault. She's surprised because she is seen as the "baddy" by everyone in this whole affair. She's angry with me because people are backing me up (people I met over the years but people I don't really know well).
It appears she is keeping her affair secret but she is tired of it. She doesn't think there is anything wrong with her seeing OM as she said we are not married anymore and that she should be allowed to have a boyfriend and to introduce him to D8. Somewhere in there she said we should just get a divorce this way it would be clear cut.
I told her again that I didn't want one. She asked why and I said I had already told her. I still love her and support her. I still trust her and I know we can forgive each other and that I knew that some day, once she has figured out who she is and what she wants, that we could still have a marvelous future together. She said that I have to stop hoping for us to reconcile. That I have to move on. I told her I was not waiting. That I was living my life and trying to be the best man I could. She told me that she knew I was and that she had noticed but that it was too little too late. she had made her decision and she felt good about it and she was sticking to it no matter what everybody was saying.
I then said that if she really wanted a divorce she could have it. But I had to add that if we were divorced, I couldn't get my residency in this country and would have to leave. She then went quiet and dropped the divorce topic all together.
She again said that there was nothing wrong wth OM seeing' D8 and there, I made a mistake. I told her what I thought of OM. I told her that I thought that a man who walks out on a wife and 2 kids to start seeing a married woman is not the kind of character I wish my daughter to be familiar with. Wife was quiet and I continued by saying that I understood that she had moved on and saw nothing wrong with this but that I'd had only 1 month to adjust to the idea (STFU!!!).
In the end she said that I wanted this for myself not for D8 and she said that if it hurt me, for now, she would refrain, but she reiterated that D8 was fine with it and that this is not going to confuse her or harm her at all, in her opinion.
I didn't fight this. I left it at that and thanked her for listening.
Then she broke down in tears, saying that she wanted to be with D8 as well. That she didn't like just visiting like she did. That she loved D8 and missed her. I told her I understood and that D8 loved her very much.
As much as I could, i tried to validate by saying that I understood how she might feel and that I myself wasn't blaming her. I told her that in fact, she probably had to do what she did to wake me up and I thanked her for it.
She was in a sad mood and I decided to leave her and D8 and I went out to meet some friends.
As I'm writing this, I can see that I made many mistakes but that I will not make them again. Today I feel like I know what I have to do and in the end, all I can do is tell her how i feel. she'll end up doing what she wants and lie to me if she needs to. I can't do anything about that so I won't worry too much about it. I want to try and trust her as much as I can, hoping that D8 doesn't get in harm's way. There really is nothing I can do more than this. So I have to accept that.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Yeah, labug. that's what I think too. I had to say it once, for her to know what I felt. I knew it was probably wrong but I figured I can now move on and work on me. work on making things better for me. She knows how I feel and hopefully she will come around some day. If not? It'll have to be ok, for me and D*.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
