Piecing - Round 1

[Harrier]

I think this all boils down to what starsky said (at least I think it was him) What does Denver need?

I mean, it's clear, that Bond would need his W to admit that she cheated, etc and was contrite. Personally, from what Denver has posted, I think he needs that too. he's mentioned numerous times trying to change his wife's view on this.

The problem here is that his W won't concede that - ever. I do think it would be healthy for his W to see things from his side (while technically not admitting to it) One of the greatest strengths in communication is seeing your other side's point...even if you 100% disagree with it.

[Starsky309]

Personally, from what Denver has posted, I think he needs that too. he's mentioned numerous times trying to change his wife's view on this.

The problem here is that his W won't concede that - ever. I do think it would be healthy for his W to see things from his side (while technically not admitting to it) One of the greatest strengths in communication is seeing your other side's point...even if you 100% disagree with it.

One other way you can look at is, is how define "saying" your "I'm sorry."

I think I have heard the words "I'm sorry" cross my wife's lips MAYBE five times in the 27 years we've been married. However, her primary LL is AOS, and she often "says" I'm sorry in the form of one of my favorite meals.

I think there are other ways that Denver's wife might be able to demonstrate remorse to him, over time, in a way that fits her stubborn ways. It will be up to Denver to determine whether or not those ways make him feel loved, and safe once again in the marriage.


Starsky

[MrBond]

"I mean, it's clear, that Bond would need his W to admit that she cheated, etc and was contrite."

Changing this...

I mean, it's clear, that Bond would need his W to UNDERSTAND that she cheated, etc and why.

That's better

[Denver_2010]

I think this all boils down to what starsky said (at least I think it was him) What does Denver need?

I mean, it's clear, that Bond would need his W to admit that she cheated, etc and was contrite. Personally, from what Denver has posted, I think he needs that too. he's mentioned numerous times trying to change his wife's view on this.

The problem here is that his W won't concede that - ever. I do think it would be healthy for his W to see things from his side (while technically not admitting to it) One of the greatest strengths in communication is seeing your other side's point...even if you 100% disagree with it.

Yeah! Remember, I am a lawyer! hahahahaha! Harrier is right. We live in the gray area!

Honestly though... Sheesh! We could go back and forth on this stuff all day long.

To Harrier's point... no, I don't think that I 'need' that. Yeah, I've tried to get W to see it my way. And I have gotten frustrated by my lack of success. But it hasn't been an issue on a daily or even a weekly basis. Just a couple of times when I have been triggered. That has subsided some in the past couple of weeks.

I don't think that I need it to move forward. What I need to do is just accept it for what it is. I think that I've made some improvement with that as well. I've accepted that there is a gray area here with my situation. What Bond, Starsky, and depending on the stage of the moon, me, consider to be an A, others like Cat, 25MLC, my W, and again, depending on the stage of the moon, me, see as a woman who was emotionally divorced moving on with her life.

I really don't think that this is as big of a deal to me as maybe it comes across.

In Europe, a indiscretion such as this would be considered Tuesday! LOL! I've had my indiscretions and now it can be argued that my W has too. Luckily, I have a very liberal side to me when it comes to sex ... well, most things in fact.

But of course none of this is to say that I wasn't devastated while it was happening. I was. That's where my PTSD comes in.

To Bond's point... yes, I know that all M's go through rough times. I do actually agree with you on most of your points. I agree that my W should have handled our pre-S issues better and differently. I also know now, after reading all that I have and being here on this board, that she did/does not have the education and tools necessary for that. I do hope that she and I can work on that together in the future either through MC or the marital retreat that I've mentioned a couple of times.

And yes, I also agree that there is no "technically" to being married. I've made that point to her when we have had our dust ups where I try to get her to see that what she did was wrong... she has an ace in the hole on that argument though... She says that we were not married in her mind. The legal part of the marriage is just a piece of paper. When I disagree with that and say "then what is the point in being married?", she responds by saying that I told her for 7 1/2 years that I believed that M was only a piece of paper... which I did when I was resisting the commitment. The moral of the story is that words that you utter early in a R with a woman can, and most likely will, later be used against you!

And Bond, I know all about the false starts. Had one in March of 2011, again in June of 2011, then again in October of 2011, then again in February of 2012... Good times. But this really does seem different. I could be wrong, and I know that we will hit rocky times, but it really seems that she is finally IN this thing for the long haul. Now watch me eat my words (fingers crossed that that won't be the case).

Starsky... your W has apologized 5 times to you in 27 years?! My W has apologized to me maybe once in 9 years. I don't think that it is in their DNA.

I do think that, so far, my W is doing an awful lot right to make me feel good about things right now. Maybe it is just a renewed honeymoon phase, but I can honestly say that things have NEVER been better between us than they are right now. Not when we first met, not when we first got engaged, and not even during our actual honeymoon!

Of course she's been gone all week... LOL!

[~ kd ~]

I am wondering.

Is it being suggested that if Denver's W does not admit guilt, even though it is possible that deep down she does understand she did something wrong and just won't admit it...

That it should be a deal breaker for Denver and he should file because she won't concede, because she's high risk to repeat.

And otherwise it is being suggested that Denver will be back here again because his M will fail?

[~ kd ~]

It also comes across similarly to the transparency issue, which is of course, related.

That without her admission of guilt and without transparency, Denver really should... what... go back to AtLRT?

[Denver_2010]

It also comes across similarly to the transparency issue, which is of course, related.

That without her admission of guilt and without transparency, Denver really should... what... go back to AtLRT?

Hahahaha! Those are actually really good questions KD! I hope that everyone realizes that there is not a chance in hell that I'm going to walk away from this merely because my W won't capitulate to my position on what was or wasn't the situation. NOW, if there is a backslide of any degree having to do with OM, THAT will cause me to end things in a NY second. Like I've told her more than once, I am done with OM being in our lives in any capacity.

[~ kd ~]

lol... its the extrovert in me... the churn helps me see things I don't see thinking in the quiet...

[MrBond]

"She says that we were not married in her mind. "

In my mind I'm Batman. Must make it true.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Horses and water.

Is it water? I think so...doesn't mean it is. Horse might be smarter than me.

I still would rather get a person to 'think' even if it isn't along the thought lines I intended.

Telling Denver what he should do isn't going to make him do it. Wishing his wife would do something is as pointless as wishing for a rainbow farting unicorn.

F- I wish Denvers wife celebreated steak and bj day with Denver twice a week...

you let me know if that happens Denver cause I got two more wishes coming to me then and I want to be selfish.

Is she going to apologize? No, not right now, maybe not ever.
Is Denver going to bring up transparancy? No, not right now, maybe not ever.

Denver you did a great job getting here...on your own. Some of us maybe offered advice or an ear, but your feet and your path.

Denver like each and everyone of us here made our own mistakes. Touched his own stove, took digested and used the advice that either he liked...or smarter, made sense even if it didn't sound pretty.

He is here in piecing. We all said our piece...or is it peace? I never could tell. Denver's feet are on his path still.

Right, wrong..."I told you so" not as important as being supportive of one of own's choice of direction, right?