A Huddle of Turtles

[zig]

there are so many thoughtful responses, and i have really taken them to heart.

thank you all, for helping me through this, i don't know if i have "decided" on a course of action yet or not, it's more that i am staying still until all of this "floats" through me. i have a feeling that as i write there may be more insight....

stubborn

thanks. i have really not felt it was mine to tell. and that's why i waited. in the first months i felt a lot of resentment towards h for lying and me having to "protect" the lies. s is pretty smart and would invariably find some little detail that he would question me about, or he would outright ask me where h was. finally as i worked on myself and began to have more empathy towards h, i started to change my answer to s when he would ask, just saying, i don't know, your dad didn't tell me, what did he say to you.

i have no desire to give s the "gory" details - not at all. and you are right h was told as an adult by his father.

i don't think h feels betrayed because i think those 3 or 4 affairs happened after he had grown up. he doesn't know about the one by his mother when he was 16. at that time his father moved out and h has always assumed that it was his father who had the affair. also what may or may not be significant in his attitude to his father is that fil didn't have the affairs with women, he had them with men, and came out to the family about 8 yrs ago. at the time h told me that his sister who is gay was very upset, because the in-laws made a big deal about her being gay because they are catholic (wow, this family is beginning to sound pretty messed up), and all along fil was secretly so!!

i know what you mean about santa - but it's hard to establish the whole picture here- of what s has seen and sensed - how he;s watched h go on trips, when h never went anywhere without us, how h has called or skyped him everyday while he's gone and acted so bizarre to s.

my personal belief is that children, let alone adults KNOW when they are being lied to. to grow up in an environment that teaches them that lies and omissions are acceptable, also teaches them to do the same when they are adults. i strongly believe that that is the environment that h grew up in and it influenced the way he deals with things as an adult.
during our marriage he lied by omission - and i would be horrified often. the worst of it was that he said the reason was because of me - in order to avoid my reaction. Al Turtle has very interesting things to say about that, incidentally.

i loathe the thought of s growing up around me where he senses i am lying, and we both act was if everything is okay. on the other hand, i know that if that is the environment at in-laws house, it is out of my control completely and I fully accept that now after i have thought about it for the last 2 days. i can make the difference in my world, in my house, but cannot do anything about it at theirs

as for h's parents affairs and his lack of knowledge of what really happened - it is between him and his parents. they have felt comfortable telling sil about it, but not h. they have to work it out for themselves

KD

You are very correct - as soon as i read your words, i knew that this was the case. I was looking at it from a place of fear and trying to protect. and now, i see your point in that if s is affected then i shall support him.

this goes back to my own issues as a parent - i was so fearful and overprotective of s ever since he was born, because of my own sexual abuse as a child. this reaction still comes up in the most subtle of ways.

i will add that i am confused though. my mom, mil, my friend who has always given me really good advice - they are all horrified at the idea that s should inadvertently find out this way. they all agree that i should accept that this may happen and i cannot control the outcome, but they are all insisting that i should talk calmly with h about it and say "h, there's a slight chance that the little girl may say something. are you comfortable with s finding out in this way. what would you like to do about it?"

when you ask me if a 10 yr old needs to know this info , i think you miss my point. it's not about the info itse;lf, KD it's about the awareness that a child gets when they find out everyone has been lying. i believe that knowledge or realization can lead to serious trust issues. s already does not trust us - that is clear. to find out that even more people than h and myself are not trustworthy - is that not possibly devastating for a young child?

maybe the underlying issue for me is my own sensitivity to lying - i don't know why it triggers me off so deeply. i have huge issues with people lying and maybe it is time for me to explore why that is so. i do not remember anyone lying to me or being aware of it all my life until i met h - consciously that is. even my ex, always came clean and owned his stuff. so when i started to realize in the early years that h lied to me by omission, i think it freaked me out so bad, that i shut down. definitely need to find out what is at the root of this for me. if there's one thing i've learned is that when i get triggered and start spinning, something within myself is possibly coming to the surface to be resolved.

stronger

yes. serenity arrived already before i read your message - thank you. and you are right - those are not my walls,i think when i said all the walls, there were some of mine that cracked too - if i were honest - the illusion that if the A ended, then h and i would possibly get back together. that one needed to be cracked and smashed for sure


labug,

zig, since your first posts here you've had these issues with the ILs. They have the ability to spin you and you can find within yourself the courage to say STOP.


yes labug and you have always come to point them out to me and i have ignored your advice sometimes. actually to my credit, i had pulled back a lot from mil, and since march had really not been talking to her all that much. they DO have the ability to spin me - i think it is there dysfunctionality that sets me off.

i think what just happened is that because h and s moved back into their house, suddenly there was way more contact. i had only seen mil 4 or 5 times since march and then when h went on his trip week before last, suddenly she was calling again and inviting s and me over and we have seen her like 8 times.

and so as i look back at the last couple of weeks, i see how i got pulled in a bit without realizing it.

I need to do a 180 here and really learn to step back and not get pulled in.

and you are right - i think i do not like how these people function and have struggled with it for years. in order to avoid the brutal reality of who they are, i think i make an extra effort to understand them. i think they have th insidious charm of a narcissist's personality and that scares me. i also struggle with the double standard - constant criticism of what the other is doing, while they are doing it themselves.sometimes i think, more than i need to detach from h, i need to detach from them and i have detached a lot since march. i still have to continue working on it.

both in-laws desperately want h and me to get back together , and i think i have been pulled into that.

thanks as always labug- this time i am going to do it!

ces - thank you - i'm happy to say that after a day of spinning i did catch my breathe and centered myself. the things at play are, i now realize - not so much what is going on with them, but what it triggers in me and what i have to resolve for myself

hope you are well?

ng
yes i'm thinking about the 180 here, a lot. not quite sure what it should be. in the past, h and i were so much on the same page about these sorts of things that it was no problem to talk to him about it. mil has made it clear that she does not want to deal with this any more (though she might, who knows) and said i have to.

now i don't know where h stands, i suspect his immediate reaction will be to say - no way, they can't come. but that's mind-reading and i don't know until i talk to him about it if i decide to

so i'm still looking to see what the 180 could be. right now, i'm thinking the real 180 would be to just let things be and see what happens. don't borrow trouble, but deal with it if it arises. there is still some fear within me about that - and i need to explore that further. but i'm stain gat that for now.

otoh - here's a thought: am i completely sure that some part of me almost wants s to find out that way so he does get really upset and h has to deal with it?

that's a horrible horrible thought. fine, h - if you set up this scenario and there are repercussions, then you'll have to face them..

just thinking that makes me want to make sure that i do talk to h. because the only one hurt in that would be our sweet little boy.

so when i say i don't want to deal with it in anyway except let things happen, if i am brutally honest, i don't know what my reasons are behind that. i want them to be about letting go and accepting whatever, but are they really if seen from the above point of view?

so there's deep deep resentment there still, towards all of them and i don't need anyone to give me 2 x 4's because i'm giving myself plenty, believe me.

resentment as in: i have used sooooo much energy to protect this child for so long and you guys are still managing to create situations where he's not protected.

and there comes, in the above statement, the crux of what is really going on for me here, isn't it? and the helplessness that arises from that...

i knew if i wrote long enough, it would eventually emerge

and now suddenly as i get to the bottom of my own issues, all i wrote seems to dissolve away, and i was about to go back and delete it all - but on second thought i will leave it. for my own record and to see for myself later the progression of how i came to it.

this post is really long and i do need a break, so will answer the other ones later. i need to digest what i just came to and realize that in the end , it's me standing here, with still some unresolved crap, but stronger and more able to deal with it and able to see that all the drama going on in that family really doesn't have much to do with it. it's the drama within myself that i need to take care of

Good friends - they are the people who are in your life that help you inspect yourself, nudge you towards the insights you have to make to know yourself better and are there to do it without criticism but with lots of support and caring.

I have never, I believe, had such good friends as I have found here. You all have played a large role in helping me restore my faith and trust in both myself and others again.

and that, by far, has been the greatest gift I have received during this sitch.

Thank-you
zig