Here is the potential problem that I see in your case though...
She doesn't think (outloud, to you) that she did anything wrong.
However since you guys are talking, does she understand that while she doesn't feel that way, that you do? And because of that transparency on her part will help your (both) relationship heal?
If she doesn't...I don't see her agreeing to or being ok with the idea of 'allowed/expected snooping' as it were.
Again, not something that we have specifically spoken about. But I have told her that for me to have complete trust in her, and for to have it with me, it is going to take time.
Like I said above, I've done some snooping. But I really, really don't want to do that. I honestly believe that I will know if something goes hay wire here. My instincts of knowing when she wasn't telling the truth and when I should snoop have been pretty accurate over the past 19 months. Unfortunately, every time that I have felt something was wrong, I have been right.
My W is a terrible liar. She can't look me in the eyes, she is distant, and become kinda mean to me. That has been the case every single time that she has tried to not be completely upfront with me, has lied, or has omitted something.
Of course I do know that it could happen and that I need to be aware of my surroundings. But I actually think that is true of everyone who is married, whether or not their spouse has cheated on them before, or if they are reconciling after a S. Unfortunately.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Like I said above, I've done some snooping. But I really, really don't want to do that.
That's the beauty of a full transparency plan -- no need to snoop. Just the credible threat of being discovered is enough to help them fight the temptation.
Think of world nations: it's the "credible threat of force" vs. the need for ACTUAL force.
W and I went camping weekend before last. We went with her mom, step dad, sister, BIL, and their kids.
W and I had to sleep in a tent because MIL's camper didnt have enough room. W and I stayed up after everyone had gone to bed. Checked out the stars, had a couple of drinks, and talked. After crawling in our tent and getting settled into our sleeping bags, W looked over at me and said, "I love you." and then asked for a kiss goodnight.
I wanted to write this here because I like that I have my posts as a recording of my journey through all of this. And it is significant. It was the first time in probably over 2 years that W has actually told me that she loved me when it was not a response to me saying it first.
Had a couple of minor arguments over the past week, but nothing significant. W left to visit a girl friend and her H in LA yesterday and then has a singing gig in Napa this coming weekend. She will be back on Sunday.
Just hangin with SS for the next several days. All is good (knock on wood).
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
That is absolutely freaking awesome Denver. Im so happy for you (and trust me thats not something I would normally say cause it sounds really weird for one man to say it to another in my mind. LOL) But just knowing how awesome that would make me feel and knowing the length of your journey it has to be incredible to hear those words said unprompted.
Just keep working at it slowly. I know as men we see a crack and wanna jerk the door wide open so avoid that instinct and simply continue on the path you've had and I foresee you having a long happy marriage.
And I have to agree with everyone else, snooping will get you nothing but trouble, and the reason is that while she may be ok with it right now, if you don't stop doing it, she will get sick of it long before your ready to give it up, which will simply feed your snooping instinct.
I still have a key to our house, and have only used it to let my son in to get things when she has asked me too. The last time I walked in with him and her ipad was laying on the end table and I turned around and got the heck out of there. I knew if I didnt that i'd go through the ipad and I promised her that I was done snooping the last time we went through this, if she chooses to lie to me i'll find out eventually and that will be that, but im not going to check on her.
Two reasons, #1 it wasn't/isn't good for you to do. If your like me some things would get taken out of context and we would end up in arguments that really didnt have to be. And #2 your wife is a grown woman who is capable of making her own decisions....you can't control what she's doing any more than you can control whether or not the sun rises tomorrow, so why not learn to give up control completely and trust. I know to some it will sound naive and to those who have read my thread it will probably sound like advice that I need to follow myself. The point is controlling behavior....and snooping is just that...will eventually bite you and really in the end what good does it do anyway?
To me its like trying to figure out if my wife is MLC, WAW, early stage menopause, EA, PA....who the heck knows but at the end of the day does it matter anyway? Would the approach I take be different if I knew....maybe just slightly, but mostly no....its the same...limit contact, improve yourself, get a life...its all the same no matter what. Hopefully you get my gist of why snooping is the same thing....is it going to change what you do if you find something...sure it is your going to be done with it correct? So do you think if there was something to find there you would never find out about it without snooping? Of course you would...might take a little longer, but you'd find out eventually.
And you said yourself you know when she's lying so looking through her phone may hurt you in the long run....maybe not...but theres no way it can help you is there? Remember do what works(helps) and dont do what doesnt. Its really that simple.
W and I had to sleep in a tent because MIL's camper didnt have enough room. W and I stayed up after everyone had gone to bed. Checked out the stars, had a couple of drinks, and talked. After crawling in our tent and getting settled into our sleeping bags, W looked over at me and said, "I love you." and then asked for a kiss goodnight.
Like I said above, I've done some snooping. But I really, really don't want to do that.
That's the beauty of a full transparency plan -- no need to snoop. Just the credible threat of being discovered is enough to help them fight the temptation.
Think of world nations: it's the "credible threat of force" vs. the need for ACTUAL force.
Starsky
or it will just force the person to go deeper underground and make things more hidden while giving the appearance of transparency...it's a win win for the cheater.
I mean with technology today it's fairly easy to get a prepaid phone, cover your computer tracks, hide, manipulate. That's why I think at some point - transparency plan or not - you have to trust on your own. That's the hard part.
full disclosure - I say this because my wife did not and could not give me transparency on her work email. (my wife works in health care and she frequently transmits patient information via email. To allow me access would be a HIPPA violation and could get her or her work in trouble) Just like I'm a L and couldn't let my wife have access to my work email due to client confidentiality.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
That is absolutely freaking awesome Denver. Im so happy for you (and trust me thats not something I would normally say cause it sounds really weird for one man to say it to another in my mind. LOL) But just knowing how awesome that would make me feel and knowing the length of your journey it has to be incredible to hear those words said unprompted.
Just keep working at it slowly. I know as men we see a crack and wanna jerk the door wide open so avoid that instinct and simply continue on the path you've had and I foresee you having a long happy marriage.
And I have to agree with everyone else, snooping will get you nothing but trouble, and the reason is that while she may be ok with it right now, if you don't stop doing it, she will get sick of it long before your ready to give it up, which will simply feed your snooping instinct.
I still have a key to our house, and have only used it to let my son in to get things when she has asked me too. The last time I walked in with him and her ipad was laying on the end table and I turned around and got the heck out of there. I knew if I didnt that i'd go through the ipad and I promised her that I was done snooping the last time we went through this, if she chooses to lie to me i'll find out eventually and that will be that, but im not going to check on her.
Two reasons, #1 it wasn't/isn't good for you to do. If your like me some things would get taken out of context and we would end up in arguments that really didnt have to be. And #2 your wife is a grown woman who is capable of making her own decisions....you can't control what she's doing any more than you can control whether or not the sun rises tomorrow, so why not learn to give up control completely and trust. I know to some it will sound naive and to those who have read my thread it will probably sound like advice that I need to follow myself. The point is controlling behavior....and snooping is just that...will eventually bite you and really in the end what good does it do anyway?
To me its like trying to figure out if my wife is MLC, WAW, early stage menopause, EA, PA....who the heck knows but at the end of the day does it matter anyway? Would the approach I take be different if I knew....maybe just slightly, but mostly no....its the same...limit contact, improve yourself, get a life...its all the same no matter what. Hopefully you get my gist of why snooping is the same thing....is it going to change what you do if you find something...sure it is your going to be done with it correct? So do you think if there was something to find there you would never find out about it without snooping? Of course you would...might take a little longer, but you'd find out eventually.
And you said yourself you know when she's lying so looking through her phone may hurt you in the long run....maybe not...but theres no way it can help you is there? Remember do what works(helps) and dont do what doesnt. Its really that simple.
I tend to agree Carnac. I am still new to this part of the process. Starsky and Jack have certainly been right at times where I have disagreed. But I'm not really disagreeing with them. I just haven't had the specific conversation with my W about verifying. And I'd rather trust my instincts and spend my energy working on trusting my W, and being happy.
Interestingly enough, this topic is being discussed in the New comers forum.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Like I said above, I've done some snooping. But I really, really don't want to do that.
That's the beauty of a full transparency plan -- no need to snoop. Just the credible threat of being discovered is enough to help them fight the temptation.
Think of world nations: it's the "credible threat of force" vs. the need for ACTUAL force.
Starsky
or it will just force the person to go deeper underground and make things more hidden while giving the appearance of transparency...it's a win win for the cheater.
I mean with technology today it's fairly easy to get a prepaid phone, cover your computer tracks, hide, manipulate. That's why I think at some point - transparency plan or not - you have to trust on your own. That's the hard part.
full disclosure - I say this because my wife did not and could not give me transparency on her work email. (my wife works in health care and she frequently transmits patient information via email. To allow me access would be a HIPPA violation and could get her or her work in trouble) Just like I'm a L and couldn't let my wife have access to my work email due to client confidentiality.
Agreed. Even if I were to work at verifying every day, there is no way of knowing anything for sure. Like I said, I may not trust my W 100% yet, but I do trust my instincts.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Like I said above, I've done some snooping. But I really, really don't want to do that.
That's the beauty of a full transparency plan -- no need to snoop. Just the credible threat of being discovered is enough to help them fight the temptation.
Think of world nations: it's the "credible threat of force" vs. the need for ACTUAL force.
Starsky
or it will just force the person to go deeper underground and make things more hidden while giving the appearance of transparency...it's a win win for the cheater.
I mean with technology today it's fairly easy to get a prepaid phone, cover your computer tracks, hide, manipulate. That's why I think at some point - transparency plan or not - you have to trust on your own. That's the hard part.
full disclosure - I say this because my wife did not and could not give me transparency on her work email. (my wife works in health care and she frequently transmits patient information via email. To allow me access would be a HIPPA violation and could get her or her work in trouble) Just like I'm a L and couldn't let my wife have access to my work email due to client confidentiality.
Agreed. Even if I were to work at verifying every day, there is no way of knowing anything for sure. Like I said, I may not trust my W 100% yet, but I do trust my instincts.
You may NEVER be able to trust her or anyone else for that matter at 100.0%. If you find that your wife generally stands for you and does not decieve you in ways that are detremental to you and you can trust her at 97.5%, would that really be considered failure?
I would not. I'd take that for sure. Maybe i'm naive, but i think that i'm at about 90-95% right now. Maybe I can get it up to that 97.5%!
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
