New to DB

[hopefulinga]

Thanks db.

I meant dj, sorry!

[~ kd ~]

I did want to point out (I'm sure you noticed) your H's confusion around what time you were leaving. My W is the same. Times when she'll ask the same question multiple times. Or tell me one thing and then tell me something else, later.

I used to put it down as lying and deception. I have come to really believe it is that MLC confusion. Mind you, my W's could be due to medical conditions or medication... but it's only within the last couple years, so... perhaps that "fog" that is often referred to, regarding MLC.

So on that, I also think that you could do more reading on MLC, including going through some of the threads in the MLC forum here. There's a number of current ones that you may also find similarities with.

His POSSIBLE MLC should have no real bearing on you and your growth. Yes, it might be a catalyst for you moving forward for you. Still, you are moving forward... for you... with or without your H.

Regarding the D, it is what he SAYS he wants. Reality is, if he's MLC, then he likely has no idea what he wants. And putting that stuff about mediator on you? If he's MLC, he likely is unable to focus on doing the tasks he would need to do to accomplish the task, so he asks you to do it.

It is possible that, if he does not feel pressured by you, he will stop talking about D. Likely forget about it. But in the same token, he's not likely to start moving towards you, either.

He is on a journey that he needs to travel. The only way out of MLC is THROUGH it. That can happen with or without you in the picture. THAT is up to YOU. My sitch is one of those that got so far "gone", that it is best that I am mostly out of the picture, except with regards to the kids.

I also note that you mention your H being a dreamer and you being practical. Yet you later mention that your hopes and dreams of doing things as a couple have been dashed. I just thought that was interesting.

And with that also, I see you mention that you want to do things as a couple, without his friends being a major factor in it. I too had that desire. I get that. Whether he knows it or not, understand that is YOUR issue. It will be up to you to stop allowing that to hurt you. However that might look, for you.

Finally, just a thought about the bike and the plane. I'm guessing your H has his bike and pilot licenses. And you mentioned wanting to do those things as a couple, yet it hasn't happened. Does he fly without you? He obviously bikes without you.

You mention you thought those things were to be for the both of you (ie. at the same time), yet they are not.

So my question really is... do YOU have your bike and pilots licenses? If so, what's stopping YOU from going for a ride on the bike or taking the plane out? If you do not have your licenses, what's stopping you from getting them so that YOU CAN enjoy those two assets... FOR YOU?

[hopefulinga]

Thank you for the words of wisdom and advice. I do notice the confusion. As I think about the past few years, I think this acutally started late 2010 or early 2011. I've been saying for a few months that he isn't right.

I will look more at the MLC threads. I am also doing some research. I hope I can survive this. Today has been difficult and at times I feel like giving up. I feel blah.

I get that the friend thing is my issue and I've been trying to make it his. I go in waves of it doesn't bother me and then I've had enough.

I do not have either license. I started flying lessons. Right now, I am taking medication that is on the no fly list. So for now, the flying is out of the question. When we first got the bike, I asked about taking an introductory class with the possibility of getting my own bike. He told me I would hurt myself. That doesn't mean I can't go out and do it myself.

He really doesn't fly much at all. He says he will in the fall. I honestly think he may be afraid to fly and ride with me so that I don't get hurt. He was in a plane accident several years ago and that really affected him. For now, his only flying is for business.

I am currently out of town with D. The drive over was painful because I couldn't get him and where we are going out of my mind. When we left, I brought D by the airport to say goodbye. We made some small talk. He really didn't look at me. He started talking about needing to do something before he fell asleep, so I got up to leave before I was asked to do so. However, before I got in the car, he stopped to let me kiss him on the cheek.

For now, I feel like backing off and just not dealing with him, which is difficult. I did try to call him when we got here, because I told him I would so he would know we are ok. We had a 4 hour drive. Also, D is having some problems with her legs and she fell, so I thought he would want to know. No answer. D did talk to him on the ride over.

I also read what you wrote about detaching. I'm trying. Some of it may be pride, not wanting to fail in this relationship. I'm successful in everything else and not used to failing or achieving what I want. That's probably part of our problem. I can't control his half of the success of the relationship and I need to take that to heart.

[hopefulinga]

Talked to H briefly and the conversation was pleasant. D called him and then gave the phone to me. He volunteered that he went to bed early and missed my call.

I read a little more DR last night. I'm at the end so I will move to DB and then try to work on what I can do differently. I've got to do something that I can't overthink.

[dj21]

Hopeful- Good morning...yes the post on detaching from Kaffe Diem is a doozy, I believe I have been over thinking detachment. Let me know what you find to not over think, I might need to copy your idea.

[mamabird]

Hi Hopeful,
My sitch is similar to yours in some way. We sound a lot alike. My dad keeps telling me I should have been a lawyer because I can be a relentless bulldog at times. ;-)

It looks like you've gone right to LRT in your sitch. Since you are still living together, why not try a few 180s if you can? You have said you're critical, judgmental, controlling and don't show him respect. These are all complaints my H has about me, too, and since you're aware of these, that's the first step to changing them. I don't think there's a person out there who wants to be criticized, controlled, judged or disrespected, so if you can work on changing these habits, they will serve you better in any R going forward.

As far as the moving out is concerned, that struck a chord with me. My H basically threw me out (I had a texting A that he discovered) and told me never to come back. I complied because I had a free place to go and I thought it would help if I left. Now, all I think about is moving back into my house. Let HIM leave if he's so dead set on having his own space. It may be psychologically easier on you anyway.

One more comment - the day you were crying at the table, and he tried to show you some caring, why did you tell him nothing was wrong? Perhaps being a little vulnerable with him could be a 180 for you? Remember - do the opposite of what you are used to doing!!

Big hugs to you!

[hopefulinga]

Thanks, LA. I think I went to LRT because I am confused and overthinking 180 and everything else. Our D was gone from 6/28 to 7/18, so she was gone when this first came up. During that time, something tragic happened to a family we know. I did a 180 there by letting him talk and acknowledging his feelings without giving my input at all. I was also saying things like "I understand...". I don't know if I got too comfortable or what. I was still staying pretty quite and not calling, texting, etc when he brought D up again on 7/30 and told me I was smothering him. So I'm a little bit in turmoil.

I don't know why I didn't tell him why I was crying. Our D was sitting there and she doesn't know anyting is going on. I think I was also afraid to talk about the motorcycle because that is what caused our initial blow out. being vulnerable would be a 180 and would be more like when we got married. I think I'm also so used to telling him and him trying to one up me or criticizem me, that I stopped being vulnerable.

Before we got married, I remember him asking me why I wouldn't look at him and he told me to let the wall down. The wall is back up and I'm struggling to let it go back down. I've thought a lot about it and would like to work on that.

I am not going to leave until we have some discussions about what is going to happen. Over the past 5 weeks, he's done nothing different than normal when it comes to our D. I wouldn't go anywhere until that is nailed down. I honestly think he is torn with what he wants, and that is part of why I suspect MLC. I also think that when gets overly upset or stressed duing the day, he is telling me it is over. Like he's trying to convince himself.

And dj, I will let you know what I come up with. I've ordered a few other books and will let you know if they help.

Being away is harder than I thought it would be. I am still pretty emotional and swing from we can make this work to I should just throw in the towel. I caved in and tried to call him a little while ago. He didn't answer and I didn't leave a VM. He's probably in the middle of something because he's actually been answering the phone more now than before he dropped the D bomb (odd, I know).

Our D is really having some problems with her legs and I am considering taking her somewhere while we are out of town and wanted his input.

I think my brain is mush.

[~ kd ~]

I think I went to LRT because I am confused and overthinking 180 and everything else.

Good for noticing!

No really, not trying to be funny on that. THAT IS what LRT is for. To get you out of the sitch and take care of yourself, while you need to.

At the very least, it's PART of the reason to be LRT.

And LRT... is temporary...

Once you are stablized in your emotions... significantly detached... able to re-engage with your H...

Then re-engage with your H...

And that's when you can then decide if you will move forward... or on...

Regarding the bike license? I say "Go for it!" And if he's not willing to share the bike? Then talk to him about using joint money or assets to get yourself your own bike.

Not to spite him... just to do it... I love being on a bike. It's very calming, even when I'm riding aggressively...

But do it because you want to...

As for the plane, why are the two of you holding onto that asset, then? I'm sure he has no idea if he ever will again, so is holding on to it, "just in case"... but it seems a bit of a silly thing, if he never flies again...

We (my dad and I) held onto a plane for too long... and then it ended up getting practically scrapped due to an accident my father and uncle were in (no injuries)... at that time, the plane was only being used once or twice a year... just seemed a little wasteful and pointless, after the fact... no regrets of course, it was nice to have...

Regarding detaching and worrying that you don't want to be (think of yourself as) a failure in the M...

As time goes by, some of the sitches here get better, many get worse, many end in D...

I'm 21 months into me leaving. 27 months into the "sitch" as it were. ie. knowing things were going really south, too fast, and probably too far. 6 months into legal separation...

I don't consider myself a failure. I'm also... still not D...

LRT worked for me... I still don't know what my plans are, regarding the D. I do believe that I will be filing some time in the future. Right now, my reason for not filing is because I don't actually have the money socked away. When / if I finally do, I may have some other reason for not filing...

Or...

My W could eventually file... even though it really does seem that until now, she just does not want to... well... she just hasn't, even when I begged her to D me... and she had apparently already decided that we really were done, anyhow...

You will last as long as you last. Maybe you will D... maybe you will R...

For now... that does not have to be your focus. That is a future that will write itself... when ever it needs to...

[mamabird]

H's in crisis can be VERY confused. I think my H has wanted change for some time. He would threaten to D me routinely, once a month probably, and I would just ignore it. In hindsight I guess I shouldn't have ignored it and we should have dealt with it.

Anyway, after he discovered my A he took the opportunity to run with it, saying he wanted a D, but I could tell he was not 100% sure about that. About a month in he went on vacation by himself and came back and said definitively he wanted a D. About a week after that, I challenged him on the house situation and told him I was moving back in, and if he wanted to get a D ok. We had a huge fight and he threw my stuff all over the place and called me every name in the book.

Guess what - he called me 3 hours later saying he'd back off the D talk and thoughts if he could just have a little space for a while longer.

So, my point is, hang in there. He is confused, most likely. He may have some physiological factors contributing - hormones, brain chemicals out of whack.

It's going to be tough, no question, but just keep feeding yourself positive thoughts as much as you can, and remember that he's going to be a bit loco for a while. One of the best DB rules is don't believe anything you hear!!

Personally I think if you can be vulnerable with him, it might change your dynamic and break down some of those walls. Choose your moment though. Make sure he can receive it.

[hopefulinga]

You all are giving me great advice and helping me to keep my chin up. So, for today, my 180 is not being suspicious about what he is doing and why he will not answer the phone.

I've always been a pretty emotional person. I think I try to hold it in and it eventually comes spewing out, not matter what type of emotion it is. And I'll admit to having some hormone level issues, which H is aware of. I'm sure I'm having some symptoms of MLC as well and he is as guilty of wanting to change me and thinking I am the problem instead of looking inside and seeing what he can do to change. But, I can't fix that. And I am a fixer. I help people get into nursing homes, probate estates, help with incompetency hearings, plan for death, set up businesses. And it home, I deal with EVERYTHING minus mowing the lawn. And he can barely do that right now (it was his pride and joy last year and looked like a putting green).

As for the bike, I doubt I would ever be able to ride it. Its 1400cc and heavy. I can see myself dumping it. I used to have a Suzuki DR250 (my 1st mother's day present) but we sold it because we really didn't have anywhere to ride. I am thinking about getting the lessons.

For several years, I tried to convince him to sell the big plane (we acutally have 3) and downsize because of the expenses. He finally did against his wishes this year but bought a replacement, albeit smaller. I've also asked him to sell plane #3 as is, but he wants to fix it up and sell it. More MLC, like we have an endless supply of $$$. The plane has been sitting for a few years. I may try to sell that one. It is really one of us holding onto the asset and I can't help that. If you saw the amount of toys he has, you'd fall over.

I always told him I wanted to be married once and forever. Even though I was over 21 when my parents divorced, it was painful and still is. And I don't want our D to go through that. He doesn't know what it is like to try to be in the middle of your parents, being pulled both ways and feeling guilty. I think my mom used to have a stop watch on me to see how much time I spent with my dad when I was in town. I think that is why I feel like a failure. I know I am being too hard on myself because a marriage takes 2 to be successful.

Another major issue for us is that I am the Chairman of our Airport Commission, which means I am HBIC. He told me no one would ever elect me chair. Well, I'm the first female chair and longest serving chair. When I make decisions people don't like, they complain to him and give him grief, so guess what comes home? I've asked him many times to stay out of that business because he doesn't know what goes on behind the scenes like he thinks he does. He is the social "mayor" of the airport and I know it drives him crazy that I pull rank. I have thought about giving him the "key" to the airport as a recognition for all he does. I have publicly thanked him on several occascions. However, that will require him to come to a holiday party. I'll keep up hope for that.

Will read more this evening. I started a journal today and started writing down his complaints that I can remember and started brainstorming on how to change. I will look for opportunities to be vulnerable with him. If I look into his eyes, it melts my heart. Maybe if he looks at me, I can start there.