A Huddle of Turtles

[Brit45]

I am so happy to come online and read this! Especially after earlier this week when you asked me about my turnaround or whatever...I think you've found it. You said in your post you didn't know what it would look or feel like but it isn't that scary, it isn't!!!! It's amazing sense of freedom to finally know that your life isn't over because they aren't in it. And in fact because you've parked yourself at the picnic leaving behind all of their confusion and drama is pure freedom and independence.
It's because we care and because we're codependent that we want them to not he confused, to make healthy decisions, etc but it's not our place you can't invite someone to the picnic they have to find it themselves. (I may he using the metaphor wrong..:you and I both know I'm hungover today)
I won't gush about how fantastic you did at your convo. You did it! You survived, you handled it with grace, integrity, and serenity! (love that new turtle) and I like the realisation that it's not OW that is stopping you two from getting back together.

I wouldn't put any stock into him saying things aren't working out. I think they say things like that to downplay a relationship when they know the person they're talking to doesn't support it or so it doesn't seem so real to themselves because they're conflicted. Notice that they still bought all those plane tickets even though money is so tight!

Keep your serene calm attitude with a honey badger lurking nothing can stop you!

[zig]

HI HI HI

so nice to hear from you. and you are so right about not putting stock into him saying it might not work out with ow. he still wants the D, so that's all i'm hearing!!

and funny you talked about the mindfulness thing - as i read what you wrote, i realized that that's what i'm doing today - keep thinking about it but then shifting m mind to the present and what i truly need to deal with today.

i'm giving myself the 48hr rule on this one about s and ow meeting and see how i feel about it in a couple of days - also give the situation time to work itself out....in one way or another...

brit - i know you're really busy - so it's wonderful you took the time to post

we miss you , but we know you're having a blast so that is wonderful

love ya

zig

[needgrace]

dear zig

i just want to say that the image of you reassuring your H through the conversation yesterday is indelibly printed on my mind and

my heart is full this morning of your example of who i aspire to be in the world.

i woke up thinking about it and even reread your post.

you brought such strength and beauty back to our picnic. i think that is what we all do, is bring these things back to feed and nourish each other.

thank you, zig. time for the black label, you deserve it
((( )))

[bustingout]

Serenity is definitely with you my dear friend. :-)

Instead of swimming deep, how about just floating on our backs for today with NG. Besides, who wants to swim after all of those shots?

:-)

[vera be fierce]

one question i do have, and would love other's view on this - we literally do not have any money, to pay for even one appointment here. the only money there is, is my inheritance that my parents gave me which is invested. i asked h yesterday how we/he were going to pay for this? he couldn't even been to answer!

i have agreed to take some of that money out for us to live on this coming month - after all i've lived off his paycheck all this time. but i do not feel comfortable about using it to pay these D bills! any ideas on how to handle this with him?

am i to expect to pay my share for my atty and half the mediator bill?

Z - personally I think that if he wants to file and go through with it he should pay for it himself. If he protests, I think "I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out" would be appropriate.

BUT - and this is very important - YOU MUST pay for YOUR OWN L. It would be a HUGE conflict to have your H to pay for your L to give you legal advice. DO NOT DO THIS!! Can you pay for your L with the new job?

Okay. As for taking money out of the inheritance to pay for things - I'm very leery about that but maybe others can offer better advice. Be careful about using inheritance money for joint expenses and be very clear with H (maybe send him an email and ask him to reply to it with understanding) stating that you are taking out X money for joint purposes but the rest of the inheritance is your own property. You don't want to get in trouble with him saying he's owed half of it because you're using it for marital stuff. Your L should be able to talk to you through that.

Good luck. (( ))

[~ kd ~]

Be still, zig...

trying not to mind read here, but after the info i received from mil yesterday - it seems sort of obvious that he's feeling pressured into it by ow.

This is fairly normal. There is a huge dynamic that goes on with any new "love", which in the case of an A, can add even more.

Of course, what you've heard is either third party or from someone who wants to only tell you what he thinks you want to hear. Still, from what you have heard, this A sounds doomed to fail.

So take a moment and let yourself understand that "it ain't over, 'til it's over".

He can only get the D he SAYS he wants (believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do) as fast as he can financially afford it.

Understand that even if you are OK with D happening, this is his baby. Let him do what he needs to do.

And consult with an L.

And carry on with your life.

IMHO... He IS NOT done with you...

[zig]

thanks for your insight KD - thanks so much.

i know you are in the background , ready to help me through crucial stuff - i so so so appreciate it. in fact so much that i'm going to get all huggy on you

{{{{{{KD}}}}}}

zig

i'm so naive about these things - it never occurred to me that a L may use the fact that we used part of that money for living expenses as a way to get us to split it.

here is the rest of the story - h said specifically yesterday that the reason he didn't want to use L's was because he didn't want people telling us how we could get more out of each other.

about the inheritance - i got it at the beginning of last year and the old zig who didn't want to deal with anything like that asked her h if he would take care of it. so he sweetly trotted down to the investment brokers office and set it all up with my name on it too, brought the papers home for me to sign (yes i was in bad physical shape then ) and took care of following up on it and paying the taxes on time and staying in touch with my mom on all the details

at that time he made it very very clear to the broker, or whatever she's called, the woman who handles the account that this is zig's money and not his. i confirmed that with her last fall - when h was insisting we use some of that money to buy a house for him to live in, i called her to find out if he could just take it out. as soon as she realized that we were separated, she said she had to freeze the account, but i talked her out of it (she's also a close friend of the family's), saying that h would see this as a very antagonistic move on my part, and she agreed that we would leave it that absolutely no moves could be made on his part unless i signed too (but not the other way around)

after h set up the account , for months after, he constantly said to me - look if we ever split up that is your money and i will never touch it. i would just look at him and say - what a weird thing to say, if we split up everything is split down the middle and he would argue with me constantly about it.

well, i do feel differently now, there's no doubt. this situation has made me realize that there is no point in me being naive about these sorts of things. women are not always the one better off after a D and tend to struggle way more financially than men do. that if that is indeed from my parents, it belongs to me, and i don't need to be generous about it.

otoh, h does have access to his parents money, in the sense that if he asks them for help in paying for the D they won't say no. and that's between them.

i will pay for my own L. i don't know how much this job is going to earn me - it's not a salary - it's as she orders, so some months may be great some months not so good. my intention there is to do a really good job and so have her give me as much work as i need to make ends meet and hopefully a little to set aside.

I'm staying still KD - much much more than I ever was able to before.

but oddly enough i'm starting to move away from it all too. i don't know if that's just more detachment or me starting to be really done. even on that i'm staying still





as an additional note to these "recent developments"

mil called to tell me that before h left the house this morning he went to them and said that he had told ow not to come

YAY YAY YAY for my son and for his parents!!

and YAY to me for standing still on this one!!

So h did come through. mil said she took my advice and stayed really quiet and didn't say something like "thank god you came to your senses". he volunteered that he felt much better after doing that and even said, i think i may have an easier day today because i feel a huge sense of relief. then she asked how ow took it and h replied that ow was very hurt, but she would have to deal with it.

he did come over to my house soon after that - (i didn't know about this when he came, only after) and seemed to want to "hover" even asking us what our plans were today. i stayed casual and said we didn't really have any and were just going to hang out and what was he upto. he said quietly looking down, i guess i'll go work on my house... i just walked over to the sink and started the breakfast dishes...

[zig]

oh shoot, vera - thanks -for some reasonn i though KD wrote both your post and his. luckily i went back to look

thanks for your great advice - and i am looking to you tough knowledgeable chicks out there to help guide me down this road - i will admit i don't have a clue, on all this financial/ legal stuff.

so a lot of my answer to kd includes responding to you - sorry i got mixed up.

hmm maybe i am a tad bit tired here from the events of the last day!!

maybe i'll go lay on the bed with s and watch the gods must be crazy and just giggle for a couple of hours and be utterly lazy.

i have a house to clean, some samples to knit, groceries and on and on and the only thing i feel like doing is nothing - sort of the equivalent of pampering myself a bit

so off to giggle in a silly fashion for a bit!!

oh funny thing happened - walked into the br to get my laptop and what's on the tv? just an image of this huge turtle slowly walking across the floor.

i just stared in fascination - there was Acceptance - larger than life on my tv - the sound was off and i was like WOW - she's bl**dy right here in my br. then of course the rest of the ad came on, but there for a few seconds it was just me and her - in complete silence, at the bottom of the ocean...

busting - i think i am floating...


with all of you


(((((((( )))))))
zig

[~ kd ~]

Great post, zig.

So, look for a L. Get two or three consults if you can. Decide which one you like. And that's it. IF things progress on the D, then retaining or getting further advice from the L will be your next step.

In the mean time, keep standing still on that.

It is interesting... only interesting... nothing more or less... that your H asked OW not to come.

You know how we read about those people who have breakdowns in a M and one spouse gets all clingy and needy and demanding and stuff...

What do you think OW's reaction really will be, as a result of your H asking her not to visit?

As far as your H is concerned... understand that he may need some "support" for his choice in asking OW not to visit.

How might you "support" his choice and be there for him in a way that a friend would? Maybe movie night?

[zig]

haha - KD -are you giving me permission without realizing it?

this is a bit uncanny. after i posted, went to talk with s about what we should do this afternoon - his play date fell through. we decided we were going to go to the movies at 7.

as i was posting to busting after, i was mildly considering texting h and saying - since you asked what our plans were today, just letting you know that we are going to see moonrise kingdom and you can meet us there if you feel like it.

then i see your post, and you are suggesting movie night!!!

What do you think OW's reaction really will be, as a result of your H asking her not to visit?



now now, KD are you practically asking me to mind read?

actually what's funny is that yesterday i had this sudden image in my mind that it's the other way around. i remembered how in the beginning after the BD i would have done anything to save this relationship and suddenly i saw h doing that with ow - i sense she's got the upper hand somehow here and he's scrambling...

otoh - who cares...

i will look for a L or 2 or 3 !!

so i'm going to check back in to see what you think about tonights' movie and asking h - before i do it... hope you're still online

KD - you are just the best!! you always make me laugh even when i'm in the ditch. i swear you are clairvoyant!!!

I'm hugging you again - fair warning

{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}

zig (big smile - not for what you said about ow, but about the movie night thing)