New to separation. Am I doing the right things?

[Carnac]

Rough:
Its amazing to think that a marriage can fall apart while we're watching and we dont know what to do, and also at least for me I didnt see it while it was happening, but looking backwards its incredibly easy to see the progression. I can think back to my wife's comments for the last 12-18 months now and see that she was slowly dropping hints...of course thats not all on me I dont think, but i'll accept my portion of it.

Here is a funny story that I may have told elsewhere on here but I dont think I have. The father of one of my good friends growing up was a pretty big shot in a really big construction company. He was old school though and didnt get his job from an education but from coming up through the ranks so even though he was a VP he still acted more like a foreman and could often be found on jobsites (im sure micromanaging if you were to ask his foreman) Anyway one day he and a foreman or subcontractor I can't remember which were having what the lower man thought was a "discussion" but what was actually my friends dad trying to tell him how to do something without just coming out and telling him how to do it and finally fed up he raised his voice and told him "son either I ain't saying it right or you ain't hearing it right so im gonna tell you more clearly this time" and proceeded to tell him exactly what to do and how to do it.

I tell that story for two reasons, all of our spouses would say that they were making their wishes clear... and most likely most people here would say they never "heard" what they were saying until it was too late. So we have to learn to "listen" better. But if we ever get the chance for R then I think its important to share at least one principle from DB with them and that is stop doing what doesn't work and continue doing whatever is working. If i could talk to my W about one thing it would be if you think your tellin me something and I continue doing what upsets you, rather than assuming I just don't care, try telling me a different way and see if I get it then.

Rough sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees and I think that may be where you were before about the money. You heard her, hell you wanted the same thing, you said so in your post, but hearing her and understanding what she was saying is sometimes two different things. Turst me you've "got" it now and unfortuanetly for you, as well as for me we didnt "get" it until things got extreme. Here's to hoping we get the chance to prove that we "get" it now. Cheers

[Arsene]

Hey Rough,

Down in the slumps, huh? I so understand what you say about your sitch being constantly on your mind. I can't stop thinking about it either mate.

I've just been through most of your thread to figure out why your W left and stop me if I'm wrong but you talk about the "money" issue and domestic stability as the main reasons and you've been putting lots of efforts in that direction but I was wondering if there wasn't something else at the core of all of this. Something where you could do some small consistent 180s that would make you a better person. For one, I often sense some anger in your tone (I know, it's hard to tell in writing but, just a feeling), is there something about you, about who you really are at your core that could be improved? Since you are not sure exactly why she left (other than the points mentioned above) why don't you try to figure out how you could make yourself a better person. It's a shot in the dark but somehow, you might just hit the target once in a while and if you are consistent, your W might actually notice.

Just as an example, here are some of my 180s. I know that they don't all have to do with why my W left but I also know she has noticed some of the changes and, since they are positive changes, it's good for me and W is now looking at me wondering who I am. That's another way to be mysterious.

Here's my list:

1.I meditate and exercise every morning.
2. I have been able to control my anger for the last two months
3. I try not to judge or criticize anyone anymore.
4 I try not to use guilt to manipulate people anymore.
5. I try to be more relaxed when it comes to tidiness.
6. I try to be more relaxed when it comes to finance.
7. I try not to expect others to be punctual.
8. I am much more patient.
9. I try to be happy, and to get this happiness from within.
10. I try to be more generous, to give more freely.
11. I try to feel empathy and compassion towards others.
12. I try to be more accepting of W's culture.
13. I try to be more self-sufficient in this foreign country.
14. I try to speak more with the locals in their language.
15. I try to be kind to all.

I know it's a long list but I'm having partial successes. My C told me to document my daily progress, so everyday, I write things I do towards these and also places where I mess up. I try to be totally aware of my feelings and to make sure that my thoughts and actions are things which I want as part on my personality. Again, I came up with many of these by looking within and seeing how I could become a better person. Others were revealed to me here on this site and by my W, before and after she left.

I don't know if all of this helps you but I thought that if you are not sure of the exact reasons, use the shotgun approach and be consistent and you might get a few hits.

I also read on your thread that you wanted help regain your self respect and confidence. This might just do the trick.

Cheers mate!

[Arsene]

Nice one Carnac!

[roughenough]

Hi Carnac and Arsene-

As always, it’s great to hear from both of you. Carnac, you nailed it, the hints have been dropped by W over time. In terms of doing what works. Things have seemed very much status quo with W over the last couple weeks. I am having a really hard time gauging what is or isn’t working. Doing some minor, thoughtful and caring acts might be helping. They seem to bring out W’s emotions a bit. When W see’s the caring side of me is when she starts to open up. I view these as “acts of service”. A couple examples would be to ask W if she needs anything from the store when I am on my way to drop the kids off at her apartment. It’s important for me to do these acts of service when the opportunity knocks. They need to be subtle and timed appropriately. Another example would be for me to take the kids to their doctors appointments. The things that make life a bit easier for W.

Arsene-

I don’t know if angry is the right word. I am sad and hurt but I wouldn’t say angry. I think what you might be sensing is my somewhat stoic attitude, maybe a little hardened or guarded. I think some of it might also be some of the DB principles. For the most part, I’ve taken on a “all business” approach when communicating and interacting with W. Don’t get me wrong, I ask her “how’s it going” and “how are you doing” but I don’t show a lot of depth. I think she would like to have more information from me in regards to what I’ve been up to and how I am feeling. I rarely have much to say since she doesn’t ask me the questions directly. Maybe I should start acting slightly more loving. W’s also a big planner. On the flipside, I am someone who fly’s by the seat of my pants. For W everything needs to be organized, an agenda, how’s the schedule going to look, etc….She also feels I need to be more responsible. I need to find ways to incorporate some of this stuff.

Thank you very much for sharing your 180’s. They’re very helpful because I need to start implementing more of them.

Rough

[roughenough]

RoughEnough,

The cold behavior you're seeing from her is not uncommon. You're locked in a game of "distancer chicken" and she doesn't want to be the one to crack first. When you stop pursuing her, and stop sharing intimate information with her, that makes her uncomfortable. She likes it much more if you're "on the shelf" waiting for her should she decide to return -- it's an insurance policy.

You do need to take that policy away. That's not to say that you're not interested in reconciling -- you are, but the point is you're not just going to wait around until she decides she's interested, you're going to live your life and take what comes.

When you pull back, she will pull back more. This is a ploy to get you to pursue her again. She wants to make you uncomfortable enough to come running back professing your love and telling her that you miss her, etc. It's a self-esteem boost for her and a return of the comfortable insurance policy. Don't do it. Eventually one of two things will happen -- either she'll make an overture to you (or start pursuing you), or she won't.

Accuray

I dont think it could be said much better then that!

[roughenough]

My S called me this morning. I am excited because I get the kids this weekend. There’s a really big park by my house and they have a free concert every Friday and the stage is right by a giant water fountain that all the kids play in, it should be a lot of fun. It’s bitter sweet because I always end up wondering what W is up to. (I need to stop that.)

I ended up having a phone conversation with W after I was done talking to S. She told me she wasn’t sure how much longer she could live in her apartment. I guess she doesn’t like it and there’s always problems with the neighbors, she really went into detail regarding her frustrations living in the apartment, I just validated. This type of conversation might seem very minor however I really like when she shares this kind of stuff with me. Even if it’s something that’s difficult for her. I miss my W so much!!!! Part of me wants to send her an email letting her know that I understand how tough living in the apartment is, because I know she doesn’t like it. I know smothering her with care and understanding probably isn’t necessary. Anyway, I know that’s not a good idea, so I will refrain.

BTW, sorry if all my posts come across as depressing. I probably wouldn’t be here if everything was one big ball of joy. You probably can’t tell but I am usually a very jovial and upbeat guy.

Why do people keep saying I’ve been given a gift, the gift of time? Sh!t, this doesn’t seem like a damn gift!!!! Is it because some couples go straight to divorce?

[Carnac]

Rough:
Man I needed a chuckle this morning and you gave it to me. That line about the gift of time is awesome...even though I know its a gift its still a pretty crappy one to me. And yes, its very much b/c many go straight to divorce without ever slowing down...so its very much a gift to have time to work on changing and letting them see those changes.

The second part of the gift of time is that it lets their emotions "cool off" and they will at least at some point have to sit down when a cooler head is prevailing and decide if this is still what they want.

Good your gonna have your kids, mine is going away this weekend with a church group which would normally mean that with him not being with me or her I would sit the entire weekend wondering what she was doing...where she was etc. Lucky for me im in a golf tournament this weekend with a great friend of mine so i'll have that to occupy my time and mind.

Don't even sweat your posts sounding depressing, in my mind this place is here so we can get and give advice to one another, but its also a safe place to rant/whine/be angry and have some community with others who are feeling the same way. It gives us the opportunity to not only get it out, but to gain/give encouragement that whatever it is we're going through we're not alone.

And just to reinforce, I know your not gonna email her, but dangit don't email her. You did a great job of being a listening ear and validating, if she feels the need to say more she will, but your done with that conversation unless she revisits it. Trust me I fell EXACTLY the same way...I miss my W so dang much I want to talk about anything with her, hell if she called and wanted to discuss her period right now i'd be more than happy to talk to her about it just so I could be talking to her.

But we have to stay strong...go back and read the last line of Accuray's post that you quoted...eventually one of two things will happen, either she'll make overture's toward you or she won't. Its that simple, and I can assure you if she keeps getting calls, emails etc from you without having to make that overture then it will never come.

Stay strong my friend, here's to a great weekend....cheers.

[Denver_2010]

Why do people keep saying I’ve been given a gift, the gift of time? Sh!t, this doesn’t seem like a damn gift!!!! Is it because some couples go straight to divorce?

Hahahaha... Yeah, tough to see this as a gift for sure.

But it is in ways. It is the gift of time for you to work on you, your personal shortcomings as a H, a father, a stepfather, or whatever... to work on making you a better man.

Unfortunately, sometimes to learn and grow in this life, we have to suffer through terrible times. At the end however, if we have grown and learned, we are better for it.

If that is the outcome of this, you will ultimately see it as a gift... but you will never see it as one of the better times of your life.

Believe it and you will get through it.

[Denver_2010]

even though I know its a gift its still a pretty crappy one to me.

Yes! It is a gift wrapped in a sh!t sandwich. LOL!

[Accuray]

Remember roughenough, always end the call first. If you want to take things up a notch, let her vent a little and then tell her you have to go, you have something to do, and that she can call later if she wants. Don't be her emotional sponge, that's just one step short of pursuing.

Cutting her off is going to make her surprised, and potentially angry and frustrated, but more importantly, it will be a 180 and will make her wonder what it is that you'd rather be doing than listening to her -- and that's the kind of wondering that's going to work in your favor.

You took a step back by not pursuing. Take another step back by being less available. Think of it this way -- "if I'm not getting the love, I don't want the stress"

Accuray