Should I initiate R talk?

[25yearsmlc]

This is mad. After such a high yesterday I feel so miserable today. There should be no reasons why today is worse than yesterday but for some reasons, OM is on my mind and I can't seem to shake him. I replay our evening of yesterday and I can just see her, laying in bed next to D8, looking so beautiful and then, it's like OM comes from out of no where and teases me and I push him out of my thought but her just comes back.

I thought I was ok, but I'm not. How do I move on from this stage?

Choosing to forgive, even when you know you played a role in how you two got here when you shut her out and down b/c you were depressed but never told her...

regardless - it's just a choice you made to BEGIN a process. The process of forgiveness for many of us, is a learned skill. I did not see it growing up so I didn't know what it looked like.

You can get some books on it, like "After the Affair", which I heard helps and that's for full blown physical affairs where the WAS feels "SO in love with their soul mates" and 'never felt that way before" and yada yada...as if the marriage to their partner never happened in their hearts...

(BTW chapter 1 or more, of DBing is on this site somewhere, so you can get started reading it. It's not the "how to" part but it gets you started on the books)...

For now I'd do the "Stop Sign" imagery thing so that whenever OM enters your mind you see a STOP SIGN in your head, and then change the image or topic to a neutral one OR a happy one of you and your daughter... AND then DO something physical. It really does help.

You may need a soothing mantra or two, to use in those moments. Stay calm and don't let those thoughts go wild in you. Practice mental discipline on this or you'll say some things you will regret. And you'll feel horrible too.

No, they are not having wildly satisfying sex all night and laughing at you and having one fantastic conversation after another and sharing ALL their insights and dreams and blah blah blah...it's NOT that way.

It's much less fun, much more complicated and there are many UNFUN emotions in her at this time...she's a mother, and that's a big deal. She knows what guilt feels like, and it's not always neurotic shame - but a conscience.
She knows OM has a FAMILY too. His willingness to leave them, MAYBE, is not necessarily seen as an act of pure love, but of at least some selfishness...and a possible pattern...

She knows the OM isn't a long term deal. He's a player who MAY find her appealing at the moment but in his line of work in that culture, I think his other options will appeal to him sooner rather than later and that MAY crush her..OR NOT...

she is not a stupid woman. But she has been hurt for longer than you realize and when you say "I ignored her b/c I was depressed but did not know it"...you are admitting something important, but then you seem to minimize it with a line or two that "explains/defends" your behavior which, no offense, sounded sh!tty to me.

So,you weren't "able" to be there for her, & she fell into OMs arms and then you went on to kind of go on about your pain. I'm sure that does NOT help you NOW.

We're solution based. Remember? What can you DO?

You hurt her. So, rather than emphasizing how hurt you are NOW when you merely imagine things you fear,

you could either recall what she was actually going through back then and what she saw in you that made her turn away--or got pushed away--

BUT ONLY IF YOU CAN BE PRODUCTIVE W/THAT imagery. If it only brings you down in shame, don't do it. but If it helps you stay focussed on the mirror, use it. Make sense?

How do I live with the knowledge that the woman I love more than life itself is in the arms of an OM.

1) You don't KNOW she's in his arms. OR loving it. And 2) you teach yourself how to change the way you think

which is what your goals are anyhow, correct? Changing yourself. Where the head goes, the heart will follow.

you can do this--this thing called change.


And then I get angry! I ask myself, how can she do this? How can she believe that this is going to help her find herself?

My DB coach told me that "asking things like 'HOW CAN MY H do this?" or "WHY are you ruining our family?" are SO NOT productive.

They are actually intended to elicit a defensive response from them and that's what you'll get.

You'd think I'd know that b/c I examine/cross examine witnesses but it never really occurred to me that way. YES---I DID see those questions as ways of me "scoring points" in litigation, but good grief, that sure does not belong in a marriage relationship. But I did it for YEARS! So I Thank God for my DB coach, what a Godsend she was...literally I think.

So w/those questions that we all FEEL like asking at some point, won't get you the answers you want. (Is there an answer anyhow? "OH, b/c I'm a selfish whore" or "B/c you deserve to be treated crappy" or "b/c I'm insane"??? See there's no good answer to those questions. Plus---

She'll probably tell you exactly how SHE felt when you belittled her for so long, and she'll recall 100 times more things than you recall. And she'll remember her pain that you either glossed over or didn't even know about but it was real...

She MAY tell you that when she's around OM he's "kind and complimentary and sensitive and cares about others"---

and in her eyes she'll SAY that he has or is who she needs/wants (and wished you were)...Do you want to hear that?

She'll tell you that you pushed her into his arms when you cruelly turned from her in HER time of need...and she believes that.

**Realize this--IMO, while your wife never wanted to hurt you intentionally,

I believe your wife felt justified in her feelings and does not believe she was morally wrong to feel that way. So you making her wrong now, won't help YOU.
She rationalized it and most women DO. Men sometimes go for 'quick easy no strings sex" but it's NOT like that for most women, including your wife.

She FELT something and that lead her in a new direction. Believe me, she felt justified or at least struggled with it.

***ALSO---The angry questions you want to ask,

WILL FUEL HER NEGATIVE IMAGES OF YOU,

WHICH YOU WANT TO COUNTER...W/POSITIVE IMAGES. Remember? Get it?

So Get the mirror out and work on the ONE person here, whom you can truly change and "control", which is YOU. And only you...

Also, maybe The more you demonstrate forgiveness, the more likely she'll believe in your changes and, the more likely she'll give it a try w/you. Have you asked her for forgiveness? And know that even if she says "Oh yes",

then understand that HER process for forgiveness is also NOT linear or instant...it's a process for her too. Did she see it growing up in her childhood?


When she asked me if I was seeing someone else, I should have told her that no, I wasn't. That I had no interest because in order to find myself, to be able to find happiness within myself, I need to make sure I don't jump in the arms of someone else, and find happiness there. That this is crucial to a personal search. It must be done alone. It's like an alcoholic replacing whiskey for beer. He's still drinking. He's not healing and he's just lying to himself when he says that there isn't as much alcohol in it so it's not the same thing.

I don't think so. I think this ^^^ is you lecturing her some more...it's more of your arguing your case to her, more of you judging her and telling her how SHE can be a better person and SHE CAN and SHOULD do a better search for meaning (a search that you have NOT done yourself...)

How convincing do you think that would be?

You MIGHT say, "I think for me, being w/myself is what I need, for now." Spare her the rest of the speech that is focussed on changing/controlling HER, and taking the focus off you...again...


I wonder if she realizes this. I'd like to hear from 25yearsMLC on this. Am I being too harsh on her? Am I disrespecting her choice to grow the way she chooses? I'm sorry 25, I'm not being disrespectful, I just want to know what would make a woman who is on a search for personal growth do such a thing?


The answer is IN the question. The search for personal growth is often triggered by another person- and how it makes her feel (just as your search was triggered by her emotional declaration).

I will post to you something from a WAW to her LBS h, that may help you understand where she (your w) is coming from.

But The short answer is, PAIN would make her seek out solace from someone offering it. Giving Solace and sharing things, i.e, disclosure builds emotional intimacy and that can lead to physical intimacy and sometimes, love.

And if that person came into her life or consciousness at the same time her partner in life rejected her or dismissed her, etc, (hurt her) then it would be even more contrasting and more noticeable that OM would be seen as different/better than what she had been living with. It would likely make her question other things too....she'd awaken to what was lacking in her m...

like I said, the letter from the other WAW to her h (after he changed a lot and wondered why his wife had any reservations about coming home to him and why she'd still THINK of OM...)

may help you understand better.


I want to understand so that I maybe able to better accept what she is doing. To stop the pain I feel when ever she's not around and my thought imagine her with him.

How can I justify this to myself? I can't!!! i wish I didn't know about him. I wish she'd not told me this way I could simply tell myself that she just wouldn't do that, no matter what the signs are.

This reminds me of the way Denver felt after he took his W and SS to the cinema.

what a horrible feeling.

It is a horrible feeling and I understand that. I used to wonder about the millions of "walking wounded" out there who somehow went to work and functioned in their life. I had a real appreciation for the people at work who someone would summarily describe as "was just divorced" and move on as is that said it all. To me that was like saying "His family just got wiped out in a plane crash...so he'll want to leave at 5 pm" and then sigh that he's not available for overtime...

It changed a lot about how I saw MANY folks in my life/work/neighborhood, etc.

I guess you're still in a newly reeling place but (b/c of your other threads)

I didn't know she got ready for a date in front of you. ??

That was not necessary of her and at best was insensitive. Nothing wrong w/you telling her that it hurt and you'd appreciate more discretion.

But I did not see that thread or post so don't say this if it's not fitting to the context.

To answer another question of yours, yes, couples can and DO recover from affairs. We know this for a fact.

*** But one BIG problem that people gloss over is this:***

When a person has an affair and then regrets it, SOMETIMES the reason the WAS does not return or even try to return is

the WAS fears that the LBSer won't ever forgive.

The WAS may want to come home but if they fear that

the LBS will hold it over their heads like the Sword of Damacles, or throw it in their face every time they fight, the WAS wont' bother trying to come home.
and sometimes their fears are justified, but when they are not justified it makes it even sadder.

But that fear is MORE Likely for her to have, with the questions you want to throw at her.

She'll think "Oh, there he goes! He'll NEVER forgive me; he'll be EVEN MORE Angry and it'll be WORSE than before... and that's the last thing I want to return to..." it will confirm her fears that you cannot change or be kind and uncritical.

At least that's what I believe is most likely w/those questions.

If the time comes when she wants to try and reconcile, THEN you can come to terms with how to rebuild trust, on both ends...certainly not now.

Anyhow, the next post is from the WAW and so, see if it helps you gain insight.

(I think It was posted to Denver, btw...)

((( )))