I think I did okay with the keeping things light this evening, not great but it take practice, right? H was here this evening for dinner and our sons bedtime routine. There was light conversation for the most part. He wanted to talk about going back to his IC. I think I mention previously that he stopped seeing her because he thought that was what I wanted base on a conversation and letter I emailed him. We talked a little about that and it came down to what I meant and what he understood were different. I said that I didn't expect or want him to stop seeing his IC, I was just concerned that his IC and our MC were taking us different directions. I said I appreciate that he did that in the effort to lessen my concern but that wasn't my intention. I said "but I see how you could see it that way" He stated his position again, i replied with I don't know what else to say (no apologies) he said "nothin'". Basically, we both see where things were misunderstood, enough said. I think it was a good exchange but I think it could have gone better. I get so nervous when we talk about this stuff, he has a way of arguing circles around me. So, after all that he said he wants to go back to his IC. I said I'm glad that he does and I am. He needs to work out a lot more that just our marriage crap, things like; his childhood, possible PTSD, depression, 2 other failed marriages and the guilt and pain he still carries, control. I think these last few weeks that he hasn't been seeing her and now that he's moved out, he can see the value in talk therapy.
His concern for my feelings felt nice. I'm realizing he does that a lot.
I love this man so much and I hope he can find a happy place again. Although I hope, with all my heart, that we can come back together, I'm afraid he can't get past all of this. I know I can survive and move on eventually but it's not what I want. Not for our S especially. So, I will continue to improve myself, find happiness and allow him the time to figure things out, all the while trying to not letting my impatience trip me up.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
So I've been pondering things that happened Monday evening. Not mentioned above because I was focused on that evening events.
We had a meeting at our S's school. He sat close enough to me for our legs to touch on occasion. I know, very HS girlish, it definitely gave me that insecure teenage feeling of does he like me, is he playing a game, will he ask me to the prom!?! I've been trying not to speculate because although I want it to be a good sign there is a distinct possibility he's putting up a front for the people there that know us and don't know what's going on. ***SIGH***
Next, he tends to be very critical of people, including me, and that evening I did my best to ignore it or make a joke of it.
Finally, what is the deal with the cell phone. I was leaving to go sign us in I hesitated because I didn't want H to snoop, then I thought better of it, H took notice and he let me know with a lot of hand gesturing and attitude face that he noticed my hesitation and it pissed him off or hurt his feeling. I trying to not acknowledge it but was not successful, IMO. I'm not really sure what to do about this, I've become very protective of my phone because, ya I'll say it, he is of his. Also, I do have things on there that discuss, with a few mutual friend, our situation. He has a hunch they know but I haven't confirmed it. Plus, sometime the OW's H texts me to commiserate, I never initiate contact with him. The OW's H had been texting me that day. I didn't want H to see them and feel betrayed. The OW's children are much older than our S and have a better sense of what's happening, I've known (been their "auntie") since the oldest one was 1yo. I have great concern for them and what they are doing through. It's going to be a huge blow when the put the pieces together and realize what their "uncle" and mother did. The OW is pulling away from them and moving out next week.
Other things that are on my mind...
I do have concern that H and the OW, with their increased freedom, that they will arrange to meet. To meet in the middle would be 45mins to an hour drive for both. I'm trying not to think about it but it's hard. I won't bring it up with H but I'm scared. Scared that things will go further between them. Since I know both of them very well I know it won't last the test of time. I know that this was or could still be 2 people needing intimacy and affection that they weren't getting from their spouses. But beyond that, when the shine wears off, the reality will set in and regret will replace that "new love feeling".
I keep telling myself to believe what he says and trust that he has the best interests of our S as the priority, but I slip and it hurts, that leap of blind faith that he destroyed is proving hard to rebuild. I know I need to get there but it's hard to when all I see is the work I'm doing and how much I'm reaching out (with my heart, not pursuing). I try to remind myself that he is working on something, if not why the IC, why the MC, what is the point? Would he really put himself in a position where he feels attacked every week to keep the EA+ going?
Little things I notice or discover pull me in so many directions? I get so confused and I don't understand some of his actions. But I keep it to myself.
So I have a question for anyone that has dealt with MLCer. Is getting or doing something that seems to be out of spite a symptom? Something like getting a new toy that he knows I won't approve of, and never did. Sort of like screw her I can do what ever I want? One of you smart souls out there picked out a classic statement by MLCers "I deserve to be happy" Stated clearly by H.
He actually mentioned MLC very early on, and everything he remembers are the unhappy memories.
Can this man be going through a MLC? On top of everything else? Am I really in for years (he think it all started on his 49th bday) of dealing with this behavior and stress?
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
Arrived home to a slightly cranky H because S was acting up for him.
I smiled or at least didn't react to a little criticism then left him to him own devices. I still feel like I make excuses for decisions I've made concerning S when H is critical. He said I was too "severe" when I watched S poor out a full glass of milk. I said water to drink for the rest of the day. I didn't think it was too bad but his view was it was the way I said it, no it was what i said, no well it was a combination of both, well any way you know what I mean...
He doesn't want S to think water is a punishment. Okay well... **sigh** Do I really want a fight? He seems to be trying to be nice but it drips with criticism sometimes. Does he just not get it? Does he not understand what he's doing? Or is he trying to provoke me? Well, I didn't jump. Water off a ducks back. There was something else I did similar to the water thing. I have to admit that I can get short with S but H is no angel either. I don't think I'm critical of H's parenting skills. It can't be tit-for-tat. Oh and is it really a problem that as a mom, when my S is sad or hurt or whatever that I want to hug and comfort him? Why does H have such an issue with it? He will stop me dead in my tracks if he thinks I about to do that, and then eventually he'll do it. Sorry, had to get it out, I held it in while H was present so you all get the pleasure of my rant.
Oh and H, thanks for reversing the effects of the massage.
Breathe and remember what he's going through. Work towards compassion.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
Too bad you allowed your H's actions reverse your good feelings.
Your posts are all about H. It's good to have compassion for him and yes, he is going through something. We all are, everyday. To have compassion for others you also must have compassion for yourself. Take care of yourself first.
Forget about what he and OW may be doing (I know, difficult) but you can't change it. They will do what they will do. Worrying about it only hurts you. When you start to wonder, STOP! Train your mind to think about something else. Very difficult in the beginning but it get easier.
This is worth some thought:
Quote:
like getting a new toy that he knows I won't approve of, and never did.
This is a judgmental statement. Remember you said you didn't think control was an issue? Were there other things you "didn't approve of"? Maybe he just knows he can do whatever he wants now and is doing it. No MLC needed, no spite involved, he's just living his life.
As far as MLC or not MLC goes, don't get too concerned about whether it is or isn't, you still work on you and let him worry about him.
And about the milk thing, it might tie into the above scenario.
Quote:
I didn't think it was too bad but his view was it was the way I said it, no it was what i said, no well it was a combination of both, well any way you know what I mean...
Pay attention to this, as I think your H is telling you something. Words are a very small part of communication, body language and tonality account for greater than 90%. I was a master (and have to watch myself closely to keep from reverting) at saying something but using tone and body language to get my real message across. It did a lot of damage.
Think about how that might apply to you.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Too bad you allowed your H's actions reverse your good feelings.
Your posts are all about H. It's good to have compassion for him and yes, he is going through something. We all are, everyday. To have compassion for others you also must have compassion for yourself. Take care of yourself first.
Forget about what he and OW may be doing (I know, difficult) but you can't change it. They will do what they will do. Worrying about it only hurts you. When you start to wonder, STOP! Train your mind to think about something else. Very difficult in the beginning but it get easier.
This is worth some thought:
Quote:
like getting a new toy that he knows I won't approve of, and never did.
This is a judgmental statement. Remember you said you didn't think control was an issue? Were there other things you "didn't approve of"? Maybe he just knows he can do whatever he wants now and is doing it. No MLC needed, no spite involved, he's just living his life.
As far as MLC or not MLC goes, don't get too concerned about whether it is or isn't, you still work on you and let him worry about him.
And about the milk thing, it might tie into the above scenario.
Quote:
I didn't think it was too bad but his view was it was the way I said it, no it was what i said, no well it was a combination of both, well any way you know what I mean...
Pay attention to this, as I think your H is telling you something. Words are a very small part of communication, body language and tonality account for greater than 90%. I was a master (and have to watch myself closely to keep from reverting) at saying something but using tone and body language to get my real message across. It did a lot of damage.
Think about how that might apply to you.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
MC today, I almost held it together through the whole thing. When we discussed what, if anything have I told friends. Well really not too much, I've explained that all I've said to anyone that matters is that we are having problems and if I expressed more, I never cast H in a bad light. IMO,In the grand scheme of things my offence to the marriage (severe depression) is easier to forgive when it comes to the outside observer. I said that I suffered from severe depression and H finally had enough and he is having a difficult time, rightfully so, figuring out if he will want to remain in and save our marriage. My intention is to preserve his relationships and friendships should we reconcile or to not damage his "reputation" (not sure if that's the right word) if we don't for the sake of my son, he doesn't need that burden. This discussion made me cry, but not to the point of an anxiety attack, not really sure why I was upset. It might have been that he doesn't believe me. My H's concern is that friends, that the other couple and we have in common, are aware of the details. He concedes that, because of social media (if they are observant and notice "friendship" status changes), that they figured it out and if they haven't they are idiots. I said, calmly, that if they do, nothing was said to me and I haven't confirmed anything that was done by you (EA+). I know this is hard for him but I can't do or say anything else about it. He still doesn't believe me and I say you know there are 2 other people involved and "they" sent their 2 Ds to spend 3 weeks with one of the couples he's concerned about knowing. I know talking about him again right! My point here is that, even though I cried, I handled the situation a lot better than I would have previously. Much calmer, not accusatory, no yelling, no anger, and even though I cried I'm happy about how I acted in the MC.
I also let him do a lot of the talking today and listened, he has a lot more anger to workout that I do right now. I think if we can focus in that direction we'll get further than continuing to argue about the past and play the blame game in MC.
I think H is taking S for Sat & Sun so what GAL activities can I come up with...
I'll let you know...
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
I noticed that you quoted my previous post but I saw no response from you. Or did I miss it?
I'm sure your session felt much better because you were able to be calmer.
You said no anger, does that mean you didn't feel any anger? Or you didn't respond angrily? If you did feel anger, what did you do or say that made this different for you?
Why does crying bother you?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Hi Labug. I did respond but it didn't post. Basically I said my posts are all about H, I'll work on that. Generally my thoughts of H and the OW come in when I don't know where he is or what he's doing and the other times are after I've communicated with the OW's H (he makes contact with me), but I keep it to myself. In any case, the thought of them are less, I'm no longer obsessing. You are right, it doesn't matter what it's called labeling it won't fix it. I do and have been working on keeping myself in check when it comes to interacting with my S. I can definitely get short with him, I've even spoken to my IC about it and I'm working on it with her. Control, that was a long response. I didn't consider the toy (a hand gun) and the one other thing (tobacco product) and my views/desire to not have them be a part of our lives a control. This was discussed before marriage and he was fine with it. Both agreement have been broken is a sneaky deceitful way. There is a lot more to the story but regardless, I'll think about that and how that can be control. Thank you for the insight it really helps to change my perspective, come at things from another angle.
As for our MC yesterday, it did feel better. I think I meant I didn't respond in anger but thinking back I don't really recall getting angry, just sad. I'm not sure what I did different, probably my mindset, keeping his struggle in mind and knowing that I want to save our marriage. Knowing that the anger I've expressed in and out of MC sessions will do nothing to fix that.
Why does crying bother me. I'll see if I can figure that out here. When I was young (in my teens), I didn't really cry because of the "attention" it drew from my father. He was the person that molested me as a child and I couldn't stand to have him touch me. I really don't want to get into details, I've had extensive counseling about it, and that is a whole family dynamic I'd rather not get into. Then for 10yrs after I left that home I was on my own, by choice. After H I felt safe and it was easier to cry because I had a very safe place. Now that the safe place is in jeopardy crying hurts too much, it doesn't make me feel strong. I just feel too vulnerable.
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
I'm not sure what is up right now, I'm feeling very sad. I have a weird sinking feeling in my chest, I'm on the verge of tears, a lump in my throat. I'm feeling hopeless right now. Nothing has "happened". What a freaking mess. What is going on?? Just so much crap. I HATE THIS...
Does anyone else go through this?
I know what I show H needs to be detached, pleasant and polite, but this hurts so much. It's so hard. I miss him so much, I've missed him for years. All this reading of books and other peoples sadness is so painful. Coming to terms with what I put H through is so hard. He didn't deserve any of it. What was I thinking. How dare I be angry about anything he's done or is doing. It's not to hurt me, it's so I don't hurt him anymore. What kind of person am I that I could do this to someone that loved me so much. That I love so much. If the rolls were reversed would I have been there? Would I be trying? I'm so scare to lose him but I'll absolutely understand if he leaves for good.
Sorry all I know I'm having a pity party, I don't want to annoy friends (not that I don't consider you all friends) with my drama anymore. It's so not fair to them.
I think I need to take a break for a couple of days from this board, I don't seem to be doing anything else but posting here and reading. Trying hard to breathe...
lillystillinlove M:43 H:49 T:17 M:16 S:6 Bomb: 1/27/12 EA+ with close married family friend / ILYBINILWY H moved out 7/27/12 H is Extremely angry, stressed and unable to forgive
"What was I thinking. How dare I be angry about anything he's done or is doing. It's not to hurt me, it's so I don't hurt him anymore. What kind of person am I that I could do this to someone that loved me so much."
Let's be honest here. He probably wasn't perfect either. I'm sure there were times when he tested you and isn't this perfect man you're making him out to be. First thing you need to do is breathe and remember that.
We all make mistakes. We're all human.
Have you talked to the MC about how you're feeling and what you're going through?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
