How Should I respond to her advances

[25yearsmlc]

I'm reading through all of your thread and wanted to finish it before commenting. You are certainly in good hands with kaffe Diem...

but there are a few things I don't want to forget to mention so I'm going to go ahead and make a few remarks here before I forget these issues as they struck me...

Yeah, her family was never very religious either and W isn't too much into Buddhism but she said it seemed the least harmful of the ones to chose from.

What were her realistic theological options in her country? And are you saying, in a way she's really agnostic/atheist

OR that She's searching for a good fit, spiritually?



She has been quite angry lately with a lot of things which are happening in her country right now re:religion and fondamental groups as well as government not protecting the minorities.


Sounds to me as if she's becoming more intellectually aware of social injustices in her society?

Her anger does not sound personal, so much as the anger of righteous indignation of someone bravely beginning to wake up...

For Asian women in Muslim countries, from what I gathered serving in the Gulf, that's a brave and frightening thing to do...or even think of doing.

She'd been disillusioned for a long time with the merits of Islam and often voiced her opinion that she doubted it was a religion of peace. As for me, I was never a practicing Muslim so i didn't bother switching as it's just a piece of paper. Only the locals must have their religion on their ID.


Couldn't help but shake my head at that sentence. Politics aside, in our nation at the moment there's a huge debate about border politics and the "border wars" in Arizona. If they only knew what goes on in other countries we might remind ourselves more often, of how lucky we are here.
ANYHOW...


The EA was/is(?) with a local (the drummer in her band) Muslim, married with two Kids and living apart from his family.

I read the thread but don't have a grip on what this "EA" is about. What does she SAY or ADMIT, about him, about their r, and why do you call it an "EA"?

I don't think she has embraced Buddhism although she has read on it and about the concept that nothing matters and we all are one with the universe anyway(which she used as a reason why it doesn't matter whether or not we came back together) but i have investigated it


no offense but now is where you get a small "2 x 4" in Div Busting land.
Seems to me you got way off track of your own path to empathy and being UNcritical in the way you live. You want her to notice your changes but...

do you notice anything critical, condescending or judgmental about your tone here?

She seems to be on a genuine spiritual quest that includes increased political awareness and possible activism about her nation's problems...

Most people, especially artists, are on a journey of sorts and it's serious to her. It's meaningful.

But the way I read your words sounded to me as if YOU are judging what you think she has read, your analysis of her reasoning, and then you say you have "investigated it" and that's an odd phrasing if ever there was one.

Just think about it. Food for thought okay?

nonetheless and I now meditate everyday. She on the other hand, never put much effort in meditation (she said she tried it a few times but that she could never concentrate and then she gave up)

^^^more judgement by you of HER efforts at Her own religious interest.

You say you did not share the interest in Buddhism that she did,

but You took up meditation??? and b/c you said it helped you,

you claim she also tried it but not really well enough for your tastes...

(SIDENOTE--seems to me, if she had seen genuine marked differences in your behavior - and credited those changes to meditation, she'd have gotten into it a lot more)

REGARDLESS....

when you say she "never put much effort into it" that's you assessing & mindreading & judging her efforts in a private internal endeavor and

since there was a conversation about it, I assume it means you then asked her about why she wasn't getting more out of it, like you say you did...so she had to defend herself...

(the way it struck me was not as if it was a compliment coming from you)

and maybe it is true or maybe not...but so what?

Isn't that totally, exclusively, HER business?

She wants space and less criticism...but it seems she can't even meditate without you grading her.


although she acknowledged that it seemed to have changed me a lot and I (gently) suggested that she gave it another go (even telling her how i went about it) because it had been instrumental in my figuring myself out. i think she is afraid to figure herself out. She's afraid of what she might find.


So here we have yet more mind reading on your end, and it's pretty much always got a negative spin on it too. Seems You believe you know her most inner feelings even more than she does? Really?

What is it she'd fear finding? Something bad in her? Really? B/C She sounds altruistically concerned with the world around her, she wants to help others less fortunate. She's artsy and sensitive...

You say you are working on not being critical and learning to have empathy for others...

Why not keep the focus on YOU and YOUR GAL and your own personal growth since you admit you have issues of your own...and b/c you are the only person you can control in this life.

You don't get to shape HER and how she lives/thinks/meditates or feels, b/c she's in charge of HER life and you are only in charge of yours, and doing right by your d.

Your efforts will be more productive if you keep the focus on YOU and YOUR WORK...not hers.


Thanks for the encouragement on the music front. I really hope I can pull this off because it would be a real GAL/180 for me to do it on my own, not relying on her talent to do this for a living.

Your final comment might be very accurate. She has been told over the year (by her sister) that she was no longer acting (her nationality). That she was more westernise. Although this is true, it was never all my fault.

Why Must we assume it's a negative trait for which you wish to avoid blame? It's possible her family sees it as a negative but is it, really?
OR it merely someone changing OR EVOLVING?

Having been a singer in bars for nearly 20 years has had a lot to do with it. Besides, her english is excellent (because of this) and she was often the only member of her band who could talk to Western foreigners. She left home at 17 to go to university in another city, against her mom's will (which is not common in this culture) and I remember her mentioning how she often missed just sitting in a local coffee stand and talking about nothing with locals.

I hope your other posts will focus more on YOU and your work and not all about her and your analysis of her life. You have limited time to correct the course your marriage is on and I'm not seeing the value of this pseudo analysis of her history and it makes it all about her and NOT about what you can actually affect, which is YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR...



She's also started to read books written by influential writers of her country and to write patriotic and philosophical poetry in her language. She also is looking at doing more altruistic work to help the poor and weak in her area. From what I've read, all of these are signs of female MLC.


Wow I must admit, That statement ^^^ irked me a great deal. It just reeks of condescension to me. Maybe it's her hormones????

It's as if you see no value in her Growth, b/c that's what it is. SHE is reading books by intelligent, philisophical, theological works and political influential authors and she is writing poetry...

isn't she a singer? isn't that a good thing?

So My first response is to suggest that You try reading more intelligent, less sexist books that don't call this growth a problem when it happens in a woman. But I realize you are only beginning on your own journey so I'll try to just be constructive here.

Ask yourself this--- if you met a man who was reading great books and stretching his mind and seeking out new faiths, and who wanted to do more with his life, to become more altruistic, to make a difference, who took up causes as he became increasingly aware of injustices around him, and wanted to do more to help others...would you call that a mid life crisis of his? Would you belittle it?

Do you realize that is what you just did when you described your w's efforts and changes?

We both know you Calling it "signs of female MLC" is no compliment.

This is what many in western cultures call an "awakening" in women, NOT an MLC.

This is sprititual and intellectual GROWTH in her but you are making it something negative.

I'm not hearing a single positive in the WAY you describe it, although I myself love what I'm reading b/c I get the feeling I'd really admire her.

To me, A woman's MLC involves leaving her marriage AND her family to take art lessons or drive motorcycles to "find" happiness, a person who acts selfishly...she's not.

She seems to be evolving into a better woman &

that is what happens to mature adults as they begin to want more meaning in their lives,

as they begin to want to change their environments for the better.

And as they disconnect from those cultural or religious beliefs (or people) who prevent or hinder them on their journey...

This evolution in lifestyle and ebb/flow of how we view our world and our role in it, is what makes people who contribute positively to our world, do so.

I've told her that all of these things are fine with me and that i would also be willing to partake in this.

When you tell her you are "Willing to partake", what does she SAY to that?


As i said i am not religious but I am very spiritual and environment-
conscious and have always wanted to give back to my community.

Please take No offense at this question but - when did you say ^^^this?

What I read was that you are working on caring about others more.

You want to learn to be kinder and to "Have More compassion for others" and are "trying to have empathy" for people, including those who are different than you. Those are your words.

There's also a lot here about you working on not being so critical and working on your bad temper. You stated that you had impossibly high standards (which is what a lot of critical people say to justify their negative responses...they set others up for failure so they can criticize them.)

I wonder what is it like for you to compliment your wife or d? Trust me I know you love them. But what I'm getting at is what your love language is and what hers are.

Chapman's book "The Five Love Languages" is excellent and reminds us that how we SHOW love and how we RECEIVE love are often OFTEN not the same IN US

and usually not the same in our partners.

My h's love languages are words of affirmation and physical touch. Mine are doing acts of service and spending quality time together. Those differences are not flaws in either of us, but they are variables to work with and to respect.

Those are important flaws to work on b/c they harm others and they harm our r's with others. Those traits do more damage than we care to admit or face...it can be overwhelming to know how deeply we've hurt those we love.

But if we can't admit it, we're not likely to stop doing it.

If a mother sees her child being emotionally harmed by someone, it hurts her to the core. OTOH- if she sees loving interaction between her child and the child's father, it's a moving experience for any mother.

Also I didn't read anything about a spiritual side from you, except you saying you didn't care about religion either way, it was only a paper to you.

Maybe your wife doesn't think you are sincere about this and maybe she thinks it's a tactic to get her to be around you more.

That would be a tactic, and a form of pursuit AND a form of hindering her on her own journey b/c you'd be making it all about you and not about helping others or what she's going through internally.

So, among other things, I'm asking if you think SHE might believe any of this^^?



These things don't need to separate us. This is also why my GAL/180s include the language lessons and also perhaps doing something for my community. When in my country, my D8 was amazed at how there were playgrounds everywhere and i told her that I would try to build something for her and the neighborhood kids when we got back.

This is helping KD. It keeping my mind on the positive. On what's important and helping me to see what i need to do. Thx

It's crucial you keep the focus on what YOU can do. I think building a playground or getting the funds to build one is a great idea. Is this something you can achieve or help create?

And think about getting that book on the Five Love Languages too, (I think ou said you finally got the Div Remedy book right?)

Good luck! You don't know how much time you have together but You do have some so, use it wisely.

Last but not least, the simple fact ("simple" as in, not complicated) to remember in all this is that -


your wife must believe marriage to you

can be better/different than before -

or she won't want to return to it.

She fears you'll revert, that your changes are not real or that they won't last if she returns.

SO

Small consistent changes on your end + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

Terms like MLC and WAW make no difference here. IN fact I think the terms deflect from changes the LBSer needs to make.

This has been going on for 2 or more years by your count and by hers, probably a lot longer. It took her telling you she's out of there, for you to finally get it and say "OMG" and to try and change. The more you argue with her or challenge her choices, the more she'll defend them.

So what are YOU DOING TO SHOW HER w/actions, (not words), that

marriage to you can be better/different than before?