Need help with detaching and hoping to reconcile.

[lillystillinlove]

Hi Lilly,

We are in the same spot - although 4 months since I found out about EA.

How do you feel about S and H being at your house on H's time? I mean I see you are pissed - but is it a issue for you?

My H is still coming over to the house to be with S(5). I've given up on asking H if he wants to take S to his place. Yes, it means that H is 'invading' even though he wants to be alone...
So I did make it a point go out more when H is here, or I will go up to the bedroom... You have some GALS you are working on that you can do at home? Is there a private area you can do them in? I do try to go outside of the house on one of the weekend days...

For me, I think of it as an extended opportunity to 'interact' (ie not interact in my case) with H. Meaning, yes I acknowledge you are here, however I am doing my own thing now and conversation is minimal. (Actually I am on dark day #2 for my sanity right now).

Thanks LIO, Hearing how you are working the NC helps me understand. I'm just so confused by him right now. I don't know what I'm doing half the time. It's a constant battle of trying to gauge the best way to go. I really think I need to try this NC thing. Since Friday H has been out of the house. I initiated contact once. But since then it's all him checking in on S. I slipped last night with the questions about why the change in approach with his new place and S. But he still hasn't spoken to S since Thursday.

[lillystillinlove]

From your tag line, our spouses could be the same person....they even moved out on the same day!

I'm struggling too...it's tough. I think it will get better with time, but right now I'm hurt, angry, and frustrated. I can say for certain my W hasn't thought thru everything, and she certainly thinks she can cake eat like she's been doing while living here. Sounds like you're in the same boat. My plan is to limit contact as much as possible, keep it to texting/email when necessary, draw some boundaries and ensure she deals with her choice to leave without a safety net, and pretend she's dead the rest of the time. Time to move forward. If she comes around eventually, maybe I'll be open to it, maybe I won't. I'm going to try to stop worrying about the marriage and worry about my own sanity.

I'm sorry to hear we are in the same boat, I certainly feel for you. I've been reading through your thread. I'm glad we both found a place to vent and rage and have someone pull us outside of ourselves. I hope that we all get to a place we want to be, when we figure it out. Or at least be able to make the the place we end up as happy as possible.

Well off to continue GALing today. Spend the AM at the beach with a friend and her kids, it was unplanned and nice. Now to get ready to go to a B-Day party for a friends kid. Home tonight to do S's HW, watch more Olympics. I don't expect to see H until tomorrow evening at a meeting for S's School. Trying to keep my self busy!!

I guess this is what my IC has been telling me to do. Stay calm and distract myself from the drama in my life. Trying hard to...

Best of luck to you Breakdown.

[lillystillinlove]

Ok, I made a judgement call on contacting H. Upon returning home from GALing with S, he (S) was heartbroken H wasn't here, he was crying and saying how much he missed daddy. My heart is breaking for him. Thanks so much hubby. I couldn't take it so I text him to call and speak to S. As soon as he called I passed the phone off to S, which calmed him down quite a bit. H asked to speak to me to ask "What's up?" I said "exactly what S said". He told me what he wanted to do with S the next day which of course told me he forgot the already established plans. I finally had the opportunity to end the call first though, yay.

Previous to this text and call exchange, all attempts at contact were from H. I answered 1 call and I hung up before he was done (I honestly didn't know he wasn't finished) and he called back.

For the 3 days prior I made first contact one other time to see if he wanted to go to the birthday party today. He declined because it was more important to continue his nesting. All other contact was initiated by him and I wasn't at his disposal.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[labug]

You said:

Control was never an issue for me, but in this situation a sense of direction would help, I thought I was doing better at not asking for information over the past week to 10days, but if he gives it shouldn't I be able to expect is accurate? I'm not asking or trying to control what he's doing, but if he says he's going to do something one way shouldn't happen that way. Hold himself to the same standard that he expect me to operate at?

I think you might benefit from reading more about control. Have you heard of the book Codependent No More? Trying to fix things is control, expecting others to act the way you think they should is control, being angry when someone doesn't do what you think they should is control.

Have no expectations of what your H is going to do. Let him live his life. You can only control you.

You said you are concerned your son would be hurt. He will be hurt by this, he has been hurt by this; that's a given. As mothers, it's our job in life to model and teach our children how to handle the bad things that come along. We can't shield them from hurts. I'm sure he's been hurt by many life events before this came up.

Be very honest with your self-I'm sure you did want to help S with the phone call but how much of you reason was to punish H. Reacting in anger allows you to do things that make a bad situation worse.

In your response to me there were a lot of implied "yeah, buts". You know that when you insert but into a sentence, everything before that is negated. Stop making excuses and work on you. It might be helpful to write up a visitation schedule for S. That way you can decrease the contact you have with H until you are stronger. Maybe H can call S at a certain time every evening. Come up with ways that S feels supported without all the drama.

S seeing you angry and reacting to H in angry ways is also hurtful to him. Think about how you want to be in this. I have a friend here who says it's about grace and dignity. That's a good goal for all of us to strive for.

[lillystillinlove]

Labug,

Please help, I don't understand what I'm doing wrong! I'll read the book Co-Dependent No More, but tell me what you see as "yeah but" statements in my last response to you. I re-read my response to you and I don't understand. Are you talking about my expectations of him when it comes to our S? Does it seem like I'm using our S as leverage to exert control over my husband? Because when it comes to anything else, as soon as I feel myself feeling or thinking that way I shut it down. How do I minimize the effect of all of this on our S (per H's request)? I know you said "implied" but I'm not seeing what you are saying about my response to you.

My son doesn't see me get angry at H or see us argue. The call wasn't to hurt H, if it did so be it. I sent a text that was to the point and when H asked to speak to me we discussed the next days logistics, that's all. No comment on being MIA. The call had the desired effect on S, he calmed right down and felt a ton better.

I really thought I was not making excuses.

As for a visitation schedule, I've done that in a manner of speaking. I've sent H my view of S's daily schedule. I stated in the email that this is in no way set in stone and to make changes as he see fit. This is the first week of all of this so we'll see over the next few weeks what works. I made no demands or set any expectation.

Labug, I hope you can help me figure this out.

[labug]

I've read back over your posts again and you've gotten some very good advice from scared silly, GWN, others.

You are still very angry and we all get that, we've all had to figure out where that was coming from and move out of it. I am a controlling person. I thought I was helping people and fixing things and making life easier for them but I wasn't, I was trying to control.

I controlled because I was afraid of the uncertainties of life.

When I couldn't control things, I was extremely fearful and that came out as anger.

I blamed my anger on many things, mostly to do with my H. That didn't work so well. And it was unfair to him. Just because he didn't do things my way, didn't make him wrong but it did make me uneasy because I wasn't in control.

I can only control me.

I can't control my thoughts (emotions, anger) but I can take responsibility for my reaction to my thoughts. I can control that.

So I've had to really sit with my anger and tease out my feelings. Why am I angry? What is my fear here?

As you move through this experience you will survive and you can do even better than that, you can become a person you haven't even imagined. But it takes a lot of work and patience.

It also takes facing down your fears.

Drop the rope with H. Don't contact him unless you have to. Believe only 50% of what he says. Have no expectations of what he will or won't do. Don't worry about what he's doing. Create a new life without him as much as possible. He may turn around one day and see that you are no longer there, that you've moved ahead of him. He may decide he wants to pursue, he may not.

But at that point you'll have moved ahead and it may not matter to you.

You said you read HTIYMWTAI (How to improve...) What did you think about it? Did you see yourself and H in it? In what ways?

You're doing a good job of this-it's just d@mn hard.

[lillystillinlove]

Hard is an understatement. I did read HTIYMWTAI, it was very eye opening and it explains a lot of my behavior and H's, I'll be reading it again.

Control, at least what I can see as controlling on my part is a recent change in me. I have never in my life felt on such shaky ground and my fear about potential outcomes has me asking questions and requesting defined boundaries. Looking for stability from him. Once I read through DR and came to the board I was doing things like that daily. Since the help I've received here I have made extremely positive changes. I ask no questions and make no demands of H. Although I am disappointed by some of his choices (I'm allowed to do this if I don't comment, right?). I have been trying to live my life for my S and me. I try not to do anything that may seem spiteful but if it's taken that way I don't try to explain or make excuses. I am trying to not fall back into the "explanation/excuses" diatribe when we are in MC because of this board and everyone's help.

Anger, every time I feel anger well up inside of me, I try to temper it, to the best of my ability, by trying to remember his side and where his anger comes from. The HTIYMWTAI book really helped me better understand the unconscious thought process behind the anger. I can look back and can see how things happened and why logic from the conscious won't really help the situation.

Labug, yes I'm angry, the betrayal by my H and close friend (the OW) was crushing. The hate and anger that I feel about it can be overwhelming and all consuming, when we fight and I feel that way I can't remember things I've said, it's almost as if I black out. Fear and Shame are powerful feelings. I'm trying very hard to keep myself in check. If some comes out in my voice or my expression I can feeling and I try to look at his POV, under all the craziness, to calm my anger.

I've been trying to figure out how all of this got started, outside of my depression. I'm thinking shame from H and anxiety of isolation and being shut out on my side.

Up until recently (H got a 9-5 paycheck job and still does all the other stuff) and after H retired from the military, H's job was to maintain out rental properties for the last 10 years which really isn't a cash flow business, it was for our future, our retirement. I am/was the one that provides the monthly income that pays our bills and for our daily lives. H was teased, sometimes he made jokes himself, about "not having a job" by friends, family, and even me. That could be where his shame comes from because before that point his paycheck was bigger. Years ago he expressed the hurt and anger he felt from the teasing or rude comments, especially one woman that requested "help" with things in her home, did nothing and didn't pay my H as she stated she would( he basically did a remodel of her first floor except the kitchen). Since he told me how much it hurt him. I stopped the teasing (but occasionally I do slip to this day even, but not in his presence). But the damage was don't, a simple I'm sorry didn't cut it. He started pushing me away using all the classic self defense mechanisms mentioned in that book especially control, annoyance and shutting down and that's when my interest is sex started to slip and started us down this path. I think that is the underlying problem with us, we became entrenched in this way of life and didn't realize what was happening. Then layer all of the other crap on top of it, I'm wondering why we lasted this long too. I'm not using this as an excuse, just putting my thought down, trying to sort out why things happened.

I want to get to a point of sincere compassion for my H so I'm not angry anymore. That book has done wonders for my ability to understand myself and H. I'm starting to get the understanding part of compassion, now I need to figure out how to truly forgive him so I can move on from this place of anger.

I make mistakes everyday. I come here for guidance, to use you guys as a sounding board and to do things like this, sort out my thoughts. So, first need to get very good at not letting the crap spinning around in my head come out of my mouth. Then I need to improve my demeanor around him. Be a happier person in his presence. I need to continue to work on understanding, detaching, and figuring out how the forgive and make it stick.

Everyone that has chimed in on my sitch and all the other threads I've read have helped me put things into perspective. Thank you all for the help you have provided. I'm just getting out of the starting block on this journey so I'm sure I'll be here for a while. Thank you for being more patient with me than I am with myself and being willing to spell things out for me slowly.

No excuses
Remember what he is going through (the beginnings of compassion)
Detach
Breathe

[dj21]

What is the title of the book you are referencing? HTIYMWTAI?

[greatwhitenorth]

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About it

[dj21]

Thanks, I just purchased it on my Kindle. My homework for the next couple of days.