Piecing - Round 1

[Denver_2010]

Quick update...

Apparently W telling the owner of the music company that she works for that she will not be doing any shows with OM has created a stir. She told owner that OM had tried to FB friend me and she also told another friend who works for the same company. That friend is also friends with OM. But, he has always been supportive of my efforts to reconcile M and against OM's efforts with W.

Anyway, 'friend' told W that he had spoken with OM and told him to knock it off and to leave W alone. He told OM that W has moved back in with me and that he needs to respect that... that I am her H, not him.

So OM texts 'friend' telling him that he didn't try to FB friend me and details all of the things that he has actually done: look at pictures on my FB accoutn (W has blocked him), texted W last weekend (OM says it was a 'moment of weakness'), and has tried to text step son (his number is blocked on SS's phone though).

'Friend' forwards OM's text to W. W texts 'friend' back saying that OM is 'obviously lying' about trying to FB friend me (she saw it on my phone) and asking 'friend' to tell OM to be an adult about things.

OM texts friend again (also forwarded to W) saying that he will not contact W again and that IF they ever end up working together that he will not talk to W.

W texts 'friend' and owner of company telling them that she is sorry that they had to be 'brought into this'.

W told me about all of this and told me that she would show me the text messages from 'friend'. I told her not to worry about it, that I didn't need to see it.

However, later last evening, W left her cell phone downstairs and asked me to go get it. I checked the text messages from 'friend' when I was downstairs getting her phone.

W told me the truth about all of it.

Kinda disappointed in myself that I snooped, especially since W blatantly offered to just show me, but W has no idea that I did, so it's all good.

I do hope that the drama ends soon. I merely want OM gone from our lives altogether. Like GH said, I'd be happy never hearing his name again.

On a down note, my brother in law is now saying that he is going to divorce my W's sister. They have been tremendously supportive of my efforts to save my M. I talked to bro in law for about 45 minutes today trying to get him to calm down.

... heard all of the same stuff... he is done, not in love with W ... should never have married her... etc.

Made me sad.

Denver

[Starsky309]

I do hope that the drama ends soon. I merely want OM gone from our lives altogether. Like GH said, I'd be happy never hearing his name again.

Denver,

I'm really glad that your wife is sharing the truth of these contacts with you. She's obviously feeling safe in doing so, and that's good.

I do think, however, that she should tell her supportive friend that while she appreciates the friend letting her know what OM says and/or does, that it's actually NOT helping her move on, and unless there's something specific that you and your wife absolutely NEED to know about (like some specific threat or something), that she would appreciate it if things like this are just kept to themselves and not passed along to her.

The reason is very specific: ANY "contact" with OM resets your wife's withdrawal clock to 0:00:00, and she has to start all over again. Even NEGATIVE contact, and even THIRD-PERSON contact. It's just the way the brain is wired, but it actually gives your wife a fresh jolt of PEAs when she hears stuff about OM. Any texts from him or about him is going to set her back, withdrawal-wise, and just take her that much longer to get him out of her system, emotionally and physiologically.


Starsky

[sandi2]

I agree.

[sandi2]

Denver, you said your W didn't feel that she had done anything wrong b/c you were S at time the A with OM took place. You've stated how you want her to see that it was indeed wrong b/c the two of you were still M. Let me ask a question here.....and it's not to argue with what you're saying, but rather to get down to better understanding it.

Do you want her to see this was "wrong" b/c you don't think she has suffered enough "remorse" from hurting you (maybe it's more like regret, instead of remorse?) but if she understood how she truly sinned b/c she was still your W.....then she would have to feel ashamed and be remorseful?
It must make your wound hard to heal, if she doesn't think she's done anything wrong.

It's hard to forgive someone who doesn't realize just how much they are being forgiven of......right?

Is it important, to you, for her to realize the "amount" or "weight" or "value" of everything you are forgiving her? You want her to know everything on that list, right? And her A with OM is a huge part! I'm sure I would, if I were in your shoes.

So, what if she should suddenly see from your perspective? How would it change things for you? How would it change for her?

What if she would be completely overwhelmed with such remorse, grief, and self-hatred, that she was not able to function. She became so depressed that she could no longer sing with her beautiful voice? She could no longer face her children? She could no longer pull herself out of bed and face another day knowing what she had done to her H? Yes, she had your forgiveness, but she couldn't forgive herself?

It could happen. It might be a year or more from now but it could happen. If it does, then it means there will be another barrier to break through.

That's not what you want, is it? You just want her to see what all you have to forgive her for. You want her agree that she did a lot of "wrong" with OM.

I was so full of so many negative feelings that I couldn't feel remoreful--even though I knew I had done wrong! It took me a long time before I could humbly seek forgiveness from my H. Then I had to live with myself and what I'd done. Talk about triggers! I have had them, and the feelings are not good for the WS, either. But one day something made made my mind think of OM......but I couldn't remember his last name! Seriously! I caught myself trying to think of it....and then realized what I was doing. I didn't know if I should laugh (b/c he didn't mean anything) or cry (b/c I'm losing my memory)! I chose to just smile a little.

I believe one of the most loving and true forms of forgiveness...is when the one forgiven has no idea they've done anything wrong. You have this kind of forgiveness, Denver.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Kinda disappointed in myself that I snooped, especially since W blatantly offered to just show me, but W has no idea that I did, so it's all good.

Better ot be kinda disappointed than...kinda furious, or kinda feeling like a fool.

Denver, this is the hard part of Verify...as in Trust but Verify.

AND I hope to GOD that you have already talked with her about how you WILL be doing that at times, simply because it is human nature, and as long as your trust is validated how it will stop over time.

Brother, do not feel diasappointed in yourself. Rather? Feel good that you're...what? Your decisions to give her this last chance is working out.

I do hope that the drama ends soon.

I bet she feels the same way. I really do.

You know? It would be nice if she did everything the way we wanted her too it, it'd be nicer for you if she did everything the way you wanted her too as well.

Like it or not, her and OM had a realtionship, and I don't know any of those that end any way but messily for awhile.

"Hey I was thinking...You too!? Awesome, good luck in life, and high five for all that sex, yeah...say bye to your parents for me."

I'd like pony too.

[Denver_2010]

I do hope that the drama ends soon. I merely want OM gone from our lives altogether. Like GH said, I'd be happy never hearing his name again.

Denver,

I'm really glad that your wife is sharing the truth of these contacts with you. She's obviously feeling safe in doing so, and that's good.

I do think, however, that she should tell her supportive friend that while she appreciates the friend letting her know what OM says and/or does, that it's actually NOT helping her move on, and unless there's something specific that you and your wife absolutely NEED to know about (like some specific threat or something), that she would appreciate it if things like this are just kept to themselves and not passed along to her.

The reason is very specific: ANY "contact" with OM resets your wife's withdrawal clock to 0:00:00, and she has to start all over again. Even NEGATIVE contact, and even THIRD-PERSON contact. It's just the way the brain is wired, but it actually gives your wife a fresh jolt of PEAs when she hears stuff about OM. Any texts from him or about him is going to set her back, withdrawal-wise, and just take her that much longer to get him out of her system, emotionally and physiologically.

Starsky

I agree as well Starsky. It is going to be tough to prevent though. 'Friend' is a mutual friend of W and OM... not me (although we are friendly when I go to one of W's gigs). But remember, W and OM work for the same music company. They all seem to love the drama... W never has before, and doesn't seem to care for what is happening now much. But we'll see.

I will have to figure out how to put a stop to it if it continues much longer.

[Denver_2010]

Denver, you said your W didn't feel that she had done anything wrong b/c you were S at time the A with OM took place. You've stated how you want her to see that it was indeed wrong b/c the two of you were still M. Let me ask a question here.....and it's not to argue with what you're saying, but rather to get down to better understanding it.

Do you want her to see this was "wrong" b/c you don't think she has suffered enough "remorse" from hurting you (maybe it's more like regret, instead of remorse?) but if she understood how she truly sinned b/c she was still your W.....then she would have to feel ashamed and be remorseful?
It must make your wound hard to heal, if she doesn't think she's done anything wrong.

It's hard to forgive someone who doesn't realize just how much they are being forgiven of......right?

Is it important, to you, for her to realize the "amount" or "weight" or "value" of everything you are forgiving her? You want her to know everything on that list, right? And her A with OM is a huge part! I'm sure I would, if I were in your shoes.

So, what if she should suddenly see from your perspective? How would it change things for you? How would it change for her?

What if she would be completely overwhelmed with such remorse, grief, and self-hatred, that she was not able to function. She became so depressed that she could no longer sing with her beautiful voice? She could no longer face her children? She could no longer pull herself out of bed and face another day knowing what she had done to her H? Yes, she had your forgiveness, but she couldn't forgive herself?

It could happen. It might be a year or more from now but it could happen. If it does, then it means there will be another barrier to break through.

That's not what you want, is it? You just want her to see what all you have to forgive her for. You want her agree that she did a lot of "wrong" with OM.

I was so full of so many negative feelings that I couldn't feel remoreful--even though I knew I had done wrong! It took me a long time before I could humbly seek forgiveness from my H. Then I had to live with myself and what I'd done. Talk about triggers! I have had them, and the feelings are not good for the WS, either. But one day something made made my mind think of OM......but I couldn't remember his last name! Seriously! I caught myself trying to think of it....and then realized what I was doing. I didn't know if I should laugh (b/c he didn't mean anything) or cry (b/c I'm losing my memory)! I chose to just smile a little.

I believe one of the most loving and true forms of forgiveness...is when the one forgiven has no idea they've done anything wrong. You have this kind of forgiveness, Denver.

That is a great post Sandi. And I agree with all of it. In fact, I've put thought into a lot of those ideas long before W and I were really, truly working on piecing. It's how I'd like to do this. But... sometimes my brain gets in the way... I start thinking too much. Sometimes I just get it in my head that I need to be 'right'.

I'm working on it and have been much better the past several days.

Thanks for the thoughts Sandi. They are appreciated.

Denver

[Denver_2010]

Kinda disappointed in myself that I snooped, especially since W blatantly offered to just show me, but W has no idea that I did, so it's all good.

Better ot be kinda disappointed than...kinda furious, or kinda feeling like a fool.

Denver, this is the hard part of Verify...as in Trust but Verify.

AND I hope to GOD that you have already talked with her about how you WILL be doing that at times, simply because it is human nature, and as long as your trust is validated how it will stop over time.

Brother, do not feel diasappointed in yourself. Rather? Feel good that you're...what? Your decisions to give her this last chance is working out.

I would just like to be able to not worry about it anymore. I wish that I truly had the same trust in W that I had before. I don't. I do trust her... just not to the extent that I did before. I feel that I am always on the lookout. I don't like that feeling at all.

I haven't had that discussion explicitly... but I'm pretty sure that she knows.

I do hope that the drama ends soon.

I bet she feels the same way. I really do.

You know? It would be nice if she did everything the way we wanted her too it, it'd be nicer for you if she did everything the way you wanted her too as well.

Like it or not, her and OM had a realtionship, and I don't know any of those that end any way but messily for awhile.

"Hey I was thinking...You too!? Awesome, good luck in life, and high five for all that sex, yeah...say bye to your parents for me."

I'd like pony too.

Right... I know.

UPDATE...

Well, the drama seems to be continuing. W was told by another person in the music company that OM is saying bad things about her behind her back. She doesn't know specifics, but she is angry. I just bit my lip and listened.

Also, one of the shows that she was scheduled to do with OM has become a problem. It is out of town. The owner is requiring W to pay for the plane ticket for the person substituing for OM... and pay that person for a show he is missing the next night because he will be out of town. All and all, it is probably going to cost my W money to be on this show in CA.

She was livid. Absolutely p!ssed at OM because she feels that he should take on some of it. She is angry at him for 'not taking responsibility for his decisions and his part'... again, I just sat back and listened, nodded my head, and said that I was sorry that she was having to deal with this stuff.

Quietly laughing on the inside though!

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I would just like to be able to not worry about it anymore. I wish that I truly had the same trust in W that I had before. I don't. I do trust her... just not to the extent that I did before. I feel that I am always on the lookout. I don't like that feeling at all.

Standard crappy answer....time. It comes with time. It does fade, does it go away completely?

[censored] man...are you sure you want it too? : ) But yeah...I think it does.

I haven't had that discussion explicitly... but I'm pretty sure that she knows.

Oh good. That should go well then. No room for miscommunication or misunderstanding there at all...since you can read her mind about that topic. ; )

[Denver_2010]

I would just like to be able to not worry about it anymore. I wish that I truly had the same trust in W that I had before. I don't. I do trust her... just not to the extent that I did before. I feel that I am always on the lookout. I don't like that feeling at all.

Standard crappy answer....time. It comes with time. It does fade, does it go away completely?

[censored] man...are you sure you want it too? : ) But yeah...I think it does.

I haven't had that discussion explicitly... but I'm pretty sure that she knows.

Oh good. That should go well then. No room for miscommunication or misunderstanding there at all...since you can read her mind about that topic. ; )

LOL... yeah, I know... TIME. I suppose that I don't want it to go away to the extent that it appears as though I don't care. THAT is how it was before. I don't want that. But I do want to be able to trust my W to have male friends (whom I am also friends with), be able to go to her out of town gigs, etc., without feeling paranoid about it.

I suppose that you are right, I probably should have that convo with her.

How exactly did you go about telling your W that you would pretty much be snooping on her??