Hi, all of you

[ericmsant2]

AA

IF I were to tell you NOT to touch a hot stove because you would burn yourself do you think you would still touch it?

I confronted my W, and as Eric is saying, I am not ready yet.

Okay you know you were not ready but did it anyway. Know why? Here is why….

Still, I could not stop my self

So let me get this straight…..YOU cannot STOP YOURSELF BUT YOU EXPECT HER to believe you have changed. Hmmm….how would you feel if the role was reversed?
AA – you CAN stop and YOU can CONTROL YOURSELF. YOU CHOOSE NOT TOO. I understand that right now you are emotional and that everytime you see her you struggle – I get that. Don’t give yourself anymore excuses – IF you do not want to confront her DON’T. Period. A lot of times we blame the other person for OUR actions, a lot of times we tell ourselves “I couldn’t”, “had to”. Excuses, excuses, excuses – Don’t fall victim to your own excuses man. You can do better. Now don’t go beating yourself up – learn and keep moving forward toward making positive changes in yourself.

that I am will not tolerate any of our behavior

This statement appears to me as if YOU are TELL HER that you will not HER behavior. You can’t control her – Maybe next times consider your statements so that you only speak about you and your behavior – less about her behavior.

I told her that I knew she was with other man

Were you there? Or did you “think” or “feel” she was with OM. I have a funny feeling you “feel” like she was with om. I would suggest not saying this as if they were a FACT…when they really are just what you are FEELING.

I told her to be true to her self and ask her own self as to what she wants. I remarked that she is not respecting either of us, and that it needs to stop.

“I told her”…yeah you told her alright….you told her that she was not respecting herself…you told her that it needs to stop, which in other words was telling HER what to do. A subtle difference but a difference that she may have (and I don’t know her) interpreted as telling HER what to do.
AA, as Jack said you are new to this and maybe I giving you too much to process….
Stop TELLING HER what to do and if you are gonna say something (FTR, I suggest that you learn to STFU) you can explain to her what YOU will NOT accept FOR YOURSELF. Let me give you an example…..”I understand that you (insert her name) have made choices for yourself, I do not agree with those choices but I will respect them and accept that this how you choose to live YOUR life. That said, I will not accept in my life the following (insert whatever) as they are not good for ME.
Can you see the difference?

Your conversation with her appeared (based on what you wrote) to be laced with self sacrifice, guilt, control and passive aggressiveness. Why would I say that?

1) You will her and OM blessing? Hey maybe you are a better guy than I am but I wish that the dude would go the F away. So IMO, you wanted her to FEEL like you are the “better man” by telling her you are blessing them. The better man, IMO, would have said as little as possible.
2) “And whatever the outcome it would be for the better”. Are you chitting me…the outcome may not be for the better. Why would say that? Will it be better for you to lose the women you love. Better for the kids? Com’on man be real. It MAY be better but is that what you want?
Did you listen to what SHE said to YOU or were you reveling in the fact that you were feeling like you took your nuts back? Cause if you listen to her (CAREFULLY) you may have heard her confusion.
She told you that she was scared (the issue she has), she said that he was buying a house for her (probably to try and make you jealous, which is good thing in a way), she said she could END it anytime (i.e. leaving the door open). My take (and FTR, I am no professional and I do not know her) is that she is confused and wants you to fight for her. So what does fighting for her mean and how do you do it?
I have already said it…but I’ll say it again…
FOCUS ON YOU and BECOME the BEST man you CAN BE.
How does one do the above? YOU learn to communicate, you learn how to be HONEST with yourself, you learn to LISTEN, you change the chit about yourself that YOU want to change.
YOU LEARN to STFU …translated “shut the XXXX up”
How? You keep your mouth shut. This allows you to LISTEN to her.
YOU LEARN TO RESPECT YOURSELF
You do not need to announce this with words…no your actions will do it.
Hey I have to go make dinner now and then jump on a conference call……so I’ll check back tomorrow.

I have a lot more to say..but I want you to really think about your actions today……So do me a favor…DO SPEAK TO HER IF you can. I’m not saying hang up on her….I’m saying take sometime for yourself today…if you do have to speak or see her a simple “I have a lot on my mind right now” should suffice.

Peace

[doubleAA]

Eric,

Yes Sir, You are giving specific instructions that I have just ignored. It is true on what you are saying, I CAN CONTROL, MY SELF, I JUST CHOOSE NOT TO. I am a man, and know how to take critisism when I know I am wrong. Do not hold anything back, I do want to grow, and be a better me.

When I told her about disrespect, I meant the other guy. Yes, Is like you are saying, I wanted to be the better man, [censored]...

Oh, one other negative I need to change. I need to learn how to STFU and listen. Really, need to learn how to STFU and listen, again, I need to learn how to STFU and listen. Denver has given me that advice, and again I need to STFU and listen.

It is pretty hard as you are saying being around her. I am struggling with my emotions and want to have them under control.
I do not want to beat my self on this or any other issues with W, and right now I feel better, than what I tought I would feel when this situation happened. In other words, I still feel the pain, but is not as painful as I tought it would be.

Yes, I do wish for this guy to go away, but still "love your enemy as you love your neighbor". With that said, it is not that I want my W with him, it is that I pray for him to be blessed with the understanding of leaving, and if possible without damage.

I feel you, I need to be the better man by STFU.

On your comments when I said it was going to be for the better.
I do not want to lose the woman I love, or what is going to happen with the kids will be for the better. Man hard words on your part, but like I said, keep it real and do not sugar coat any of your advice. I feel disrespected when things are NOT said straight forward. And for right now this is the only way I am going to understand things.

When she was speaking about OM buying a house for her, and that she was scared and that she could end her R with him right away, I did listen to her, again I CHOSE NOT PAY ATTENTION TO HER. Instead, I tried to make her see that I am the better choice to clear her confusion. Yes, I know she is confused and is hurting real bad, but I am being ignorant of this. I am focusing on my stupid ways of telling her what to do.... and I need to stop this behavior on my part. I am not her Dad, and I do ont want to be her Dad. Everything comes to one point I need to learn how to STFU.

Eric, once again man, thanks. You once posted when you were going thru your problems that you wish you were at the point of confidence Jack, Cadet and the many other were at the time. Man I wish the same, I will get there..

I guess your advice is not to speak to her, right. Well, I am not going to contact her, enough damage was done in five minutes. I will let time pass by, and focus on my self, I am in deep need to soul search my self and learn from this. I need my own space too, like a lion to lick my wounds, heal my self and come strong again....

By the way, I am from Parral Chihuahua. Chihuahua is on the north of Mexico and Parral is a southern city known as the Capital of the World, about 120 years ago it was the world's top producer of silver in the world and that is how it got this nickname.

When I am done with the firebird, I will ship it to you.. at least a picture

[doubleAA]

Guys,

I am here again, I have screw things royally with W today and have disregarded your valuable advice too.

I do not want to do either one anymore, so I is next, I love my wife and do not want to lose her, I understand I need to do the good changes for my self. As Eric said, it is not for the better to lose the woman or my kids, who I love with all my heart. The way to regain my W and kids trust in me, is by regaining the trust in my self. I need to be humble, no humiliated, specially by me, by pretending I am in control of her and that I have all the answers she needs. I am not even in control of my self and I need to learn that the answers I need are not in her either. I have been thinking, without beating up my self, what did I do wrong today with W, the answer is simple EVERYTHING. With a clearer head, I have gone thru what she was telling me, man, was I so deaf not to listen. She is basically telling, "I love you, so please, make feel I am safe at your side". Eric, point that out in different words, I went to the gym and meditated on his remarks, by God, Eric is right.

I know I am not supposed to get in communication with her and if we do, I should say as little as possible and just listen. I am going to be strong about this, but the little things that I might say, what should they be?

Things I do understand and need to reinforce:

1. I can only change my self.

2. These changes are for my self only.

3. I have to respect my W desicions, even though I do not agree
with them.

4. I have to stop controlling her.

5. I have to be humble and learn how to listen.

6. I have to detach.

7. I have to stop pursuing her.

8. I have to make time to heal and forgive my self.

9. I have to GAL for my self.

10. I have to be greatful of the little progresses.

I have been reading the book of Proverbs in the bible this past days. I have to pay attention to the Word of the Lord. Everything in these book of Proverbs is what I have to do. I will work not to ignore His teachings and commandments and also the advice of you guys.

I will leave with this readings from Proverbs that have made feel better:

1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels.

I want to be this wise man that knows how to listen to increase my learning thru the understanding of your good advice.

2:11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee

No more of todays behavior with W, I have to shut my mouth and listen, I am better of that way.

4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

All the problems that I have are in me, and I am creating more of them everytime I do not do any of the above.

Just a note, I am not trying to push religion on anybody. I am just a believer on the Lord.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

AA,

Your pride and stubborness is going to prevent you from listening and actually following any advice we give you.

After all how could any of us KNOW you and your wife, right?

We don't, we are familiar however, with the story, including all the dirty little secrets and plot hooks.

Well brother , the stove is hot.

Some people have to touch it.

You had too.

So Again, the stove is hot.

Several outcomes here.

1 -You listen and follow some damn good advice...like STFU around her and get control of your emotions and mouth.

2 - You don't right away but eventually do...hopefully she isn't tired of the BS by then.

3 - You don't. DB doesn't work for you and you suspect it is all BS anyway. You convince yourself this was supposed to happen, and you repeat this pattern in future relationships.

4 - some other outcome...


AA...

I HATE 'buts' no guy here likes them...all a 'but' does is make it ok to fail or screw up.

Stop saying 'but' Stop saying, I know...but.

[ericmsant2]

AA

Do not hold anything back,

I won’t. I am not here to be your friend. I am here to pay it forward bro.

I do want to grow, and be a better me.

Remember these words up there ^^^^. Repeat them to yourself every time the anger comes or the feeling of uncontrollability or doubt or guilt.

Oh, one other negative I need to change. I need to learn how to STFU and listen. Really, need to learn how to STFU and listen, again, I need to learn how to STFU and listen.

”NEED” or WANT? There is a difference…. I want a new car – I don’t NEED one. It may seem like I am just picking on the “words” you use, but I wanted to share with you my thoughts on the difference and why it is so important.

Denver has given me that advice, and again I need to STFU and listen.

Yep.

It is pretty hard as you are saying being around her

I know man…I know. I lived with my XW for 18 months, while she was with someone else. It was the hardest and yet best thing that happened to me.

I know the hurt brother, I know the pain to look into there eyes…I know the feeling of hanging on to every word they say, every action they do….hanging on looking for something. Feeling like…Oh if she said Hi she must still love me, etc. It will get better AA, but you need to step away from her for a bit. DB tactics are so counter intuitive they really are. You need to let go in order to let HER come back.

I am struggling with my emotions and want to have them under control.

That is why DETACHMENT is so important especially right now. The real hard part is detaching in a loving way, detaching in a way that you let her go and really focus on yourself. It is a process buddy and you are new at this. Give yourself a little break.

Dude, I want to show you something…..

I feel disrespected when things are NOT said straight forward

“disrespected”…… you feel disrespected when things are not said straight forward. Think about that for a second….why would you feel disrespected if someone ELSE was not able to as straight forward as YOU want them to be.

Notice YOU want someone ELSE to be a certain way towards YOU. Reverse it for a sec….should the other person feel “disrespected” because YOU are not the way THEY want you to be?

AA, you cannot change, control or manipulate another and EXPECT everyone to be the way YOU want them to be. Being an ex control freak…I can tell you that a lot of time the ROOT cause of controlling behavior is OUR OWN INSECURITY. OUR own FEAR is another big driver behind controlling behavior. The reason the controlling behavior is applied is so the the control does not have to face HIS or HER FEAR nor deal with their own insecurities. A vicious cycle bro….vicious.

The cool thing is that you can change it. YOU REALLY can CHANGE YOU.

Another thing I want to point out is what I see as a “macho man attitude in you”. I can see it, even though I think you do a real good job of trying to hide it. Your comments of “come strong”, “take my nuts back”, “I will not be disrespected”, etc is a macho man attitude, which IMO, is your attempt to hide you own fear and insecurities (at least for me it was). You can go tell me to F myself but once you stop being pissed off, think about it...can you see it?

INSECURIY = FEAR
FEAR = CONTROL
LOSS OF CONTROL = FEAR

A vicious cycle papa…a vicious one.

I personally much prefer….

CONFIDENCE = PEACE
PEACE = HAPPINESS
HAPPINESS = CONFIDENCE

I have screw things royally with W today

Hmm…as I suspected (cause I have been there) REALTY and FEAR set in. YOU just realized that you may have totally F this up and you are now chitting brinks that she may say F it and go forward with OM.

Here is what I can say….1) a lot of people do what you do and at some point it is EXACTLY what you will need to do – just not now. 2) Get over it and get over it NOW. You need to put this behind you and trust me I know that right now you are probably having another convo with her in your head. You may be replaying the whole convo again and trying to determine what exactly you would SAY differently next time. My advice…..for NOW…forget it. Stop thinking about it….cause hopefully you will not say more than a word or two to her for the next few days.

I love my wife and do not want to lose her,

Do you love her enough to let her go? Let her go just for a short period of time.

is by regaining the trust in my self.

TRUST or CONFIDENCE…..(the real kind…not the one that someone else or something else gives you)?

I know I am not supposed to get in communication with her and if we do, I should say as little as possible and just listen. I am going to be strong about this, but the little things that I might say, what should they be?

“what should you say”? I don’t know…how is “Negra por favor, tráeme una cerveza”. Just kidding. Seriously, you can be civil and short. A simple Hello and Goodbye is fine. Keep it light man, don’t let her suck you into a big conversation. She may want to in order to see where you are…but stay a little mysterious, let HER realize what she is gonna give up.

Oh…and just so that you know…I too believe in God. Just remember, He knows what is best for us EVEN when we do not.

Now please dude...relax and try to have a good night.

Peace,
Eric

[Denver_2010]

Now, she met NEW MAN while we were having problems. And no she is not married to this man, or me..

Thanks, I was confused about who the OM was. That helps.

And FYI; 'doormat'? Don't let anyone but you tell you what that means. OK? What you are willing to do or endure is up to you.
NO.
ONE.
ELSE.

Got it?

EXACTLY.

I struggled with this a lot AA. But Jack is spot on.

[doubleAA]

Guys,

Thanks again. One thing I need to point out, I do not believe DB is BS, it is a great help and something I have to stick to.

Jack, yes sir, my stubbornes and pride are preventing me from becoming a better me. I am seeing all this now, and like you say, I hope it is not too late and she is fed up with the BS.

"Buts", Another big No, I have to change. Like I said i can recognize when I am wrong, and look for the answers on the right place. Your advice is been taken in considetarion, I am taking the bull by the horns in this issue and stop making excuses for my self. I am strong, I know I can become a better me, I am already a better me that is becoming better and better.

Eric, although you are not here to be my friend, you are here to pay it forward. Well, thanks, I do consider all of you putting your .2 cents to be friends. Great, and truthfull advice of this kind comes from real good people.

Eric, the NEED VS WANT, I realized yesterday when I wrote the last post that I was using need on everything. I do not NEED to make any changes in me if I do not WANT to. I went back to everything I wrote on my last post and changed the NEED for WANT. I WANT a better me, I am a better me, and becoming better everyday, that is the mantra I WANT to follow.

Yes, I am working on a better me, and I am in control of my anger, my desperation, my life.

STFU = Wisdom to listen and understand and act on that understanding. Got it!! I HAVE to implement it, NOW!!

DETACHMENT, from what happen yesterday, like Jack point out on the outcomes, and I am going for #1. Stop the destructive behavior, follow the advice, STFU and control my self. This is now.

I am expecting a lot things right now, I have to lower my expectations. Stop controlling, stop feeling disrespected, and keep reminding my self I HAVE to be better, I am better and becoming better everyday.

I see the great wisdom in you guys. Eric, you are right on the spot man, I am wondering if I screwed things rollay and sent W to OM. Yes, I prayed yesterday for it not to happen. Yes, I love my wife enough to let her go, I know this will make me a better me, regain the real trust and confidence. This is the goal..

I am on that vicious circle, fear, control, insecurity. I am dragging W with me on it, and it is why she is pulling out. I am pulling out of this vicios circle, I am pulling out.

I WANT confidence, peace, happinness. I am a better me, and how can I become a better me: Confidence, peace, happiness.

Eric, Jack I appreciate you guys. I wish I can physically stretch your hand and say thank you.

Eric, I was thinking more of "Reina, Hazme una carne Asada, porfas"..

[doubleAA]

Something right quick,

W sent me a simple message, it was just a happy face. I did not answer it. I am tempted to answer, but I would not.. DETACHMENT, right?

[Cadet]

Something right quick,

W sent me a simple message, it was just a happy face. I did not answer it. I am tempted to answer, but I would not.. DETACHMENT, right?

YES it is a start

[doubleAA]

Wow, it feels good..

1st Baby Step..

Another question, What if she drops by?