Piecing - Round 1

[Carnac]

Denver and GH, both awesome posts. There is so much to be learned in all of that. I can identify so much with what went on in your situations. I dont know if my wife is EA/PA or nothing, and at this point im not really concerned about it, but I am concerned about giving the time and space needed to overcome whatever it is she needs to overcome so that hopefully one day we can work this out.

Jack: Great advice, unfortunately i've been that passive agressive guy in the past. Although there are triggers and it will happen, the worse thing i ever did was fake triggers to get reassurance. I held her seeing someone over her head for way too long even though she did everything i asked..changed numbers, sent back gifts, changed jobs and we moved.

I know at least part of why its so hard for her to trust me now is because of how I acted then. Im looking for chance #2 at DB and its harder this time b/c i/we both didnt "fix" it the first time, just put a bandaid on it.

Denver: Don't stop working on it....a year from now when things are great keep working toward better. Complacency bit me on the @ss and im paying now, but still not giving up.

[GH31]

This is true.

BTW, Denver probably doesn't want to ever discuss OM again, at least not when his amygdala isn't pulsating (correct me if I'm wrong, Sir).

But once something seemingly trifling and inconsequential triggers him (the worst thing about them is that they can take you completely by surprise), his instinct will be to do battle with his wife, rehash everything and it will do far more harm than it ever will good.

I haven't brought up OM for a year now and have no plans to so. No good whatsoever would come of it. It's much easier now than it was a couple of years ago, to the point where I no longer even think about it. Life is too full to let those thoughts hijack my brain.

One of the great things about piecing is that the brain is plastic. Over a period of a couple of years you really notice that.

It's great to chat with you fellas about this topic.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

It's great to chat with you fellas about this topic.

agreed. : )

[Denver_2010]

I think it's more than he was triggered. I mean he wants his W to see her "R" with the OM from his perspective. She isn't ready to see that and she may never be.

Denver, you just has to accept that. I mean I'm sure there are 100s of little things you don't agree on (I know this is a big thing) You have to treat it like that. I don't know if you can do much more than that. I do wonder why is it so important to be "right" about this?

Also, I would remember what 25 has said time and time again. Your W has to feel that you won't hold her time when you where S over her head for the rest of her life...waiting for that it to fall. You won't hold OM over her head.

I mean we would not accept our W's holding our past mistakes that led to the bomb over our heads forever. You have to find a way to move on ... or at the very least don't bring it up to her again and again. It's part of the trust factor with her.

All very true Harrier. I do know this, but am still learning to apply it. I have been better the past couple of days though.

[Denver_2010]

Complacency bit me on the @ss and im paying now, but still not giving up.

Thanks Carnac. Yup, complacency is, by far, my #1 concern.

[Denver_2010]

BTW, Denver probably doesn't want to ever discuss OM again, at least not when his amygdala isn't pulsating (correct me if I'm wrong, Sir).

I would be ecstatic if I never discussed or thought of OM again. You are correct.

But once something seemingly trifling and inconsequential triggers him (the worst thing about them is that they can take you completely by surprise), his instinct will be to do battle with his wife, rehash everything and it will do far more harm than it ever will good.

Yup. No question that no good will ever come out of doing battle with my W over this issue. As Harrier reminded me, I cannot hold this over her head.

One of the great things about piecing is that the brain is plastic. Over a period of a couple of years you really notice that.

Interesting way of putting it.

[Denver_2010]

All sounding very familiar I have to say although your wife is considerably more remorseful and contrite than mine was at the beginning of us recovering. I really do think you have an excellent opportunity here to make your marriage better than it has ever been.

I would not classify my W as being remorseful. I think that she does recognize what OM was for her... as she put it, he was an 'escape' for her from the problems that she was having with our M and the other problems in her life. But she is very adamant that she did nothing wrong because she left me first, moved out of the house, and we were not 'together'. Try as I might, I cannot get her to see that we were married the entire time and what she did was wrong. But I realize that it is a matter of perspective. Cat, 25, and others here have reminded me that my W did consider herself emotionally divorced... she was moving on with her life believing that our M was truly over. I will never win this argument with her. I do need to accept that.

The other thing that has happened since i last posted is that W has notified the owner of the music company that she works for that she will no longer take gigs that OM is on.

Mate, this is huge. The fact that she herself is taking the initiative to end contact. Mine did not do this. OM dumped my W when it became apparent she was pregnant with my baby. In the end it was conversations I had with OM that persuaded him to change all his numbers, email addresses and call the police to make sure W wouldn't hassle him anymore. My Mrs. left OM to come back to me but still wanted contact with him and to keep the fantasy (addiction) alive. As you can imagine this was a big deal breaker for me and her ego was severely damaged from being thrown on the sh*t pile.

I think that it is huge too. It s*cks on the financial side of things as she has already given up about $2,000 in shows that she was booked on for the remainder of the year. But, like I told her, our M is worth more than any amount of money.

Wow GH... one of these days I'm going to have to go back and read your threads. It sounds like you've been through hell. Congratulations for hanging in there and making what you wanted a reality.

Any chance you could change the cell phone number? The inconvenience would last 2 weeks maximum after which everyone you'll want to hear from will have her number.

I would love for W to do that of course. I'm trying to let her figure this out on her own, knowing of course, that I will not tolerate OM being in our life at all.

I don't think that she will change her phone number unless OM really pushes the limits with his attempts to contact W.

Oh, and I forget if I mentioned this or not, but OM tried to friend me on FB last week.

What an absolute pathetic excuse for a human being.

Yes. They all are GH. How someone cannot understand the concept of 'being married', I will never understand. And then he wants to be my friend. PLEASE. He will never be my friend. I certainly wouldn't be shaking his hand if I ran into him in a dark alley... I might greet him with my fist... but that's about it.

Agree with this mostly. At the end of the day, I did have to do what you quote below. BUT, that was after months and months of showing my W that I had changed, that I did take responsibility for my role in the breakdown in the M, that I was sorry for that, and that I was capable of letting her have the time necessary to forgive me and grow as a person herself.

The same was so for me. I had spent a couple of months showing my wife with actions that I understood why she was hurting so much and that I wouldn’t ever repeat those errors with her or any other woman. I too ensured (without saying the words) that she sensed a sincere change by spending time with me. The more pleasant I made the interactions, the more interactions she wanted to have. My W needed time too and moreover I needed the solitude bigtime in order to confront all my demons. I couldn’t have done it if I were with her.

Perfectly stated. I definitely needed to be away from W for me to fully comprehend the changes that I needed to experience. And I needed the time as well.

My M needed a period of me letting W live her life and figure things out on her own. And while she did that, I ate a huge sh*t sandwich much of the time.

LOL! Sounds very familiar. Man I swallowed a lot of sh*t!! Breath must have stunk for a good few months thereafter.

Actually why am I laughing about that? Will take it as a good sign that the trauma has passed.

The trauma has passed, but the memories are still there. I truly think that I have post traumatic stress from some of the things that I experienced.

I do hope that it all fades with time. I am fairly confident that it will.

Trust me, Denver. You will be triggered again.

Expect it, accept it and above all else be prepared for it. I found it really helped to identify what my triggers were and to mentally rehearse how I would respond. I would usually gently cup my wife’s head and whisper in her ear ”I am about to explode and need to go for a walk before I say or do something I regret.” or I would simply remove myself from the situation and go surfing, running, ring a mate – whatever I had to do. You’ll likely slip up again and your instinct will be to go and rehash everything but have a plan in place for when that happens. If you slip up (and you will) get back on the wagon as soon as you can.

THAT is GREAT advice.

...

Quick question for GH, Jack and others who have reconciled with their wives after an affair...

Did you feel that everything that you experienced with W prior to your 'situation' was tainted by what your W had done?

For example, for me, I look at pictures of me, my W and kids at Disney last summer and I am just reminded that W was with OM after we went on that trip... even though we were in the middle of our separation when we went to Disney, I just look at it as tainted... same with all of the other fun stuff that we did during the times in our S where we were exploring the idea of reconciliation, ie, the U2 concert, Disney, our trip to Buffalo, other concerts...

When I think of those things, and that she was with OM after we did them, I get no joy from the experiences themselves. In fact, I'm just reminded that OM was still in her life during those times.

Not sure if that makes sense. Anyway, just asking.

Denver

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Ohhhh....that makes sense brother.

Some of those things are tainted for me. So I limit the exposure to them. It is a choice. Those pictures of that time...exist, somewhere but are not prominently displayed.

Does that make sense?

When I come across them I remind myself that was the person she was, not the person she is now. That helps, but again I also limit exposure.

But like almost everything else in this Denver...time blunts the sharpest cuts. Seriously. Right now, the image of them lying in bed together from 5 years ago just went through my mind...and; honestly...nothing.

[Starsky309]

Quick question for GH, Jack and others who have reconciled with their wives after an affair...

Did you feel that everything that you experienced with W prior to your 'situation' was tainted by what your W had done?

For example, for me, I look at pictures of me, my W and kids at Disney last summer and I am just reminded that W was with OM after we went on that trip... even though we were in the middle of our separation when we went to Disney, I just look at it as tainted... same with all of the other fun stuff that we did during the times in our S where we were exploring the idea of reconciliation, ie, the U2 concert, Disney, our trip to Buffalo, other concerts...

When I think of those things, and that she was with OM after we did them, I get no joy from the experiences themselves. In fact, I'm just reminded that OM was still in her life during those times.

I didn't experience this specifically, Denver. I still have TRIGGERS when I drive by a place THEY would go, or I hear a song on the radio that was a hit during that godawful summer of 2007, but I don't see OUR experiences together as any less significant than I did before her affair. I try to write it off as "that's when she was messed up," and since our marriage was really very good before that and very good SINCE that (other than the 2-3 years of fits and starts of piecing), I'm able to do so.

But that's just me. Everyone has different sets of triggers and emotions that they go thru, and I certainly wouldn't discount your own if I were you. Own them, try to understand them, and try to heal from them.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

But like almost everything else in this Denver...time blunts the sharpest cuts.

Oh, so very true. It does get easier and easier as the months and years pass.


Starsky