Need help with detaching and hoping to reconcile.

[lillystillinlove]

After reading the note and going through your posts, I noticed that you make alot of excuses. Yes I understand your depression, etc. But the bottom line is that alot of the problems stemmed from that.

I totally agree with you.

For years my W would push me away when I wanted to initiate sex and it does feel very emasculating. I have a feeling that this is the reason why your H feels that whatever change you say you are making, that it's not going to stick. In fact, I have a feeling that in your C sessions, you validate how he's feeling but then come up with the valid excuses why you acted the way you did.

Yes, I would agree with that, all of it.

This is what you need to do. You need to apologize and that's that. And then live the changes that you've said you made. Don't say 'I'm sorry, I know how you feel, BUT you know I was depressed, etc." He knows you were depressed but in the end his FEELINGS are what matters.

I agree I do that when very frustrated (which is more often than not). I need to figure out how to be calm when in our MC sessions, that is a big trigger for me. I'll do better when it comes to outside of the session and email contact for sure. I'll work very hard in session to remind myself no excuses and stay calm.

It's no wonder why he went out to get validation as a man from another woman. Validate him some more with no excuses. Then just give him random hugs and tell him how much he means to you.

Ouch... I understand what you are saying but Ouch. I wish I could give him random hugs, he won't let me touch him. I need to find ways to express how much he means to me that don't come across as I Love You, he feels the words are empty and saying it feels like pressure to him.

Thank you for all the insight, all is duly noted. I'm happy to have your POV it will definitely help me understand my H's POV better.

I have to admit, I wanted to "explain" more of the dynamic but decided it would sound more like an excuse. Learning already!

I'm sorry you when through so much with your W.

[lillystillinlove]

Labug, Thank you for the books. I've looked at the 5LL website but I haven't gotten the book yet. The others I will look for today.

The physical contact is a non-issue right now. He does not want me to touch him.

[adinva]

I also told him that if everything I've gone through means that he's finally getting the help he needs then I'd do it all again tomorrow. That, to me, is love.

I like this.

I also like the discussion of SSM. I get that it's emasculating for a man to be pushed away, and that the W having a good reason doesn't change how the man felt and doesn't help now. Over the past year I've learned a lot about myself and understand a bit more now about why I lost interest in ML with my H and sometimes wish I could explain it and then he'd get it and be sorry he made me feel that way. But that's not how it works. He didn't make me feel that way. I interpreted him incorrectly, felt bad based on my interpretation, allowed my bad feeling to affect our intimacy, chose to find excuses not to seek help, and so on. If we can wipe the slate clean and rebuild I think we can do better, but I've given up on expecting that if I could just explain to him how bad he was he'll be sorry and be better... that's just not going to happen in this lifetime.

[lillystillinlove]

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
Sorry...bit of a hijack.

No problem, it all data I can use to better understand my situation.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
Questions is whether there is anything in H's email that you can build from. I think so, and you've heard most of it before.

1. He feels pushed. Back off any R talk, any MC/IC talk, any questions for him that don't relate directly to your son.

Are you saying stop going to MC? Outside of MC we only talk about our son unless he brings up another topic. We rarely speak, if at all, of our R out of session. He prefers not to because of my reactions is session. He's not sure how to handle me. I've never been this way before, very out of character for me.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
2. His C sessions. Avoid putting your M in his head as fodder for these. If, as he says, his IC is focused on him, let that be. If you stop pushing your M, he will probably stop talking about it. Until, of course, the fog begins to lift and he begins to remember the good and the value of your life together. And that's a different conversation. No guarantee, but if you bring his focus to your M when things are bad, nothing good can come of it.

Never thought of it that way,I took all of this C as a means to an end, the marriage repaired. I hoped he would work out other things too only colored by the lens of working things out. Unfortunately he's stopped going to IC for now.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
3. His feeling rejected. You will need to be subtle about this and expect a long road. Figure out his Love Language and use it to your advantage.

I'll get the book to verify, but I think I have that one pegged. Physical Affection. The problem there is that I can't use it at all, he won't let me near him.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
4. Telling him you will eventually date. STOP! His response suggests that he still does care for you and value your M. Run with the bull, you'll get the horns. And you don't want'em. Jealousy won't work at this stage.

Not what I said but that is what he heard. I wasn't going for jealousy not in my nature, it's more his game. The first statement was in regards to the changes I've made and that even if we are not together, I may at some point in the future, be in a relationship that I need to be healthy for. The changes I've made are not exclusively for him but for my son and for me also. The dating statement was an attempt to ease my mind after he moves out. I asked that dating be off the table while we are trying to figure this out and that any new relationship has the potential to hurt our son. He is already away from home so much adding that to his list of obligations would leave our son even less time to spend with him.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
5. Your lack of desire for sex. Do you fully understand the root of this? Yes, you were depressed, but in my mind depression is a context not a reason. For some reason(s) you didn't want him to get close. What are those reasons? Have you worked through them? Were there other ways you pushed him away? I feel strongly about this because my H pushed all intimacy with me away, and a couple of months ago admitted to "every time you tried to get close to me I'd push you away. I hated what my behavior was doing to you. I wish you had met me after I dealt with all my issues." If you look closely you might find that you pushed him away in more ways than one.

When my H and I met I was working through problems stemming from childhood sexual molestation. Dealing with male authority figures was not a happy thing for me and being in the military at the time did not bode well for my state of mind. H was great about the situation. I figured a lot of that stuff out at the time and was able move on. I think. There are so many pieces and parts to this story that I don't know if any of it is correct so there are a lot of maybes here and what would be considered excuses. H did start feeling like and authority figure, I rebelled early on in the marriage (he still is hurt by it) but after a while I started to submit to his will but I was am the authority figure when it come to sex with me. Not a conscious decision for sure but I could see how, with my history , it may have contributed. Then more stuff, daily 2.5 hour commute (RT) working long hours in a salaried position, sleep starts to win over intimacy and sex. Lucked into a job that allow me to work from home and pay more, sweet! I am pregnant? what? ok... sweet, lets do this! Difficult pregnancy then Post Partum depression. Now I have 2 full time jobs, and no energy due to sleep deprivation, sex? really? you gotta be kidding! Then, when our son is 6 months old my knee gives out and after surgery something got screwed up, my leg is paralysed from the knee down, depression sets in for the long haul. Now I have depression PT, Baby, Job, I'm fat, have a nerve damage in my leg and I have the lions share of the domestic duties. I sought help again for the depression and took meds, was convinced there was something physically wrong too. Yes, lots of contributing factors. Then all the stuff that lead up to this point. Since the bomb the depression is better, even in this situation, due to stronger meds and a Dr that found the physical contributing factors and my leg is better, lost weight have more energy. I grown a lot and learned a lot over the past few years. I understand now that not having sex, regardless of the situation or my history was wrong, I actually was trying to work on this prior to all of this but he was already done and I didn't have the right tools in place to try and fix it then. Tired of reading yet?? I know, everything listed he knows and bringing them up sound like excuses.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
6. "I want to be happy, I deserve to be happy." This is classic WAS, depression. He will eventually realize that happiness comes from inside. He needs to travel that path unhindered.


He actually mentioned that once very early on, I do think there is a lot of truth in that. He thought it was a culmination of events, he feels his body is falling apart on him, MLC, his 49th BDAY, me... He is definitely depressed but resistant to admit it. I hope he realizes that, I'm working on that myself. As for the path he's traveling, I'm making it bumpy. I need to stop that.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
7. Your separation. Sounds like it's a trial separation. That's good. It is possible that he's trying to lessen the blow for you, but let's assume he's being honest. Dig in your heels and become the awesomest Lilly imaginable! Find your power, find your happy, be someone everyone wants to be around. It's gonna be tough as nails, but you can do it. Fake it 'til you make it.

I'll try to remember to trust his word, that it temporary.

I'm on that path now GWN, yes it is hard and yes I'm faking a lot of it right now.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
I told H that I love him so I am willing to give him what he wants, and wish him peace, strength and happiness. We rarely see each other, and last time I saw him he looked very much like a troubled man. BUT he is now working on his issues. I believe that once he deals with everything he will be a completely different person, and know that it will take a long time. I also told him that if everything I've gone through means that he's finally getting the help he needs then I'd do it all again tomorrow. That, to me, is love.

It's tough, but you need to let your H go knowing that it comes from a place of love and trust. Then you dig in and focus on you. Your self control regarding communication with your H will develop over time. You've got a lifeline in this board.


I know intellectually what you are saying is the right thing to do, I just haven't gotten there, my heart is overwhelmed.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
Kudos for not sending the email.
Kudos for getting out of the spying game with OW's H.
Don't think about your H and the OW.

Work on forgiving your H's transgression. (BTW I don't agree with Bond that "it's no wonder" he stepped out. His choice is not your fault or your responsibility. Your H could have chosen to express to you the direness of the situation, but instead he chose to go outside the M. His choice. But to err is human and to forgive divine.) That doesn't mean it's OK, it doesn't mean you don't care and it doesn't mean you're not hurt. It just means that you have chosen not to carry around the anger. It's hard but it's necessary for moving forward.


Thanks for the kudos. As for forgiveness, I'm close, I don't dwell on the A too much, I know the why and my part in it. I agree, the choice was his to make and I take no responsibility for that. I think I'll know when I'm ready, it's will be when I no longer get that punch to my chest when "old times" come up. They were such a big part of our lives that it pains me to relive them in discussions. I am really working on me but I see how easy it is to slip into old, well established habits.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
Check out the book Depression Fallout (I forget the author). It's about the impact of depression on relationships. Lots of insight.


I will, looks like I have my summer reading list. I considered 50 shades but it would be pointless right now! I don't need to add to my frustration.

Originally Posted By: greatwhitenorth
Keep posting, and let me know if you get the tattoo and piercing!

I will!!

Thanks so much GWN. This is good stuff and a lot to think about.

[lillystillinlove]

adinva, Thank you, thank you, thank you, that seems to be exactly what I'm doing, trying to reason with my H to help him understand what was going on, the why. In my mind it seems that should be enough. It obviously not.

Unless I am over the top angry about this situation and not thinking straight I've started trying to find a similar situation in our past that he went through with me. It has been helping me balance thing in my mind and calm the frustrations. The hard part for me is doing it in when we are talking in MC. I get so wrapped up in my own BS that I can see the other side and I escalate.

This forum has help so far because it gives me a place to go and get feedback. I'm glad that I waited to make a decision on sending a response to his email until after I heard back from you guys. H and I having a conversation last night about his job and all the additional stress he's under helped too. (Prior to this job he worked for himself, now he has what he was doing before getting this job and this new job). It's easy for me to forget what he is going through.

Looking back on all the excuse I had to not ML seem almost petty compared to what I'm going through now.

A clean slate would be nice.

[MrBond]

"It's easy for me to forget what he is going through."

That's why he needs validation, encouragement and compliments from you. Physical love is a big way that men receive that validation. How about making slow movements towards him first. Rather than giving him a hug, how about lightly holding his hand when you're talking and then smoothly move it away.

Then change it to light touches on his shoulder, then eventually a hug. He's not letting you touch him because he's afraid of being rejected again. Show him it's safe to do so.

[lillystillinlove]

MrBond, I don't think I can approach him with anything physical. He would view it as pushing and has been pretty clear about his boundaries. I also think he knows my position. I've told him via email and in MC that I would accept anything he was willing to give. You don't know the countless times I wanted to comfort him, in a non sexual way and as I stepped forward I was met with a look that said back the F*** up. I realize all of this is pursuing and I have since stopped (several weeks ago). As of the other evening, when I was considering responding to his email and received all the great advice and reality checks, that I will not be initiating contact other than that necessary for our son. If he contacts me for any other reason I will respond with validation and compassion. NO EXCUSES.

My goals for the next few weeks:
1. Don't recoil in fear at the slightest touch (accidental or initiated by him) and being afraid it will be crossing a line with him that may push him further away.
2. Try to remember what it is that he is going through.
3. No Excuses.
4. Breathe.

I don't know how often I will be able to practice this because he gets his place Thursday and I don't know how things are going to work after that. He wants to keep the situation as "normal" as possible for our son, so I think I'll see him everyday dinner time to bedtime and then he'll leave but who know, if I ask I don't really get answers. I still feel like that boat without a rudder.

MrBond I hear what you are saying and would love the opportunity to rekindle that part of our relationship, especially now that I've found a Dr (MD) that has helped me figure some things out and has me on hormone therapy. I really think that if we could get over that hurdle, working on the other stuff would be so much easier. I was never dissatisfied with him as a lover, it was always a matter of getting my engine going. Now that my engine is tuned up I have no driver. Is that called irony?

[Arsene]

Hi Lilly,

I really feel for what you must be going through right now. My W and I have been separated for just about a week now (actually 2 months but since she dumped me by email while i was away for a few months and I've been back for only a week, I've only felt the fact that we are separated physically for a week) and it's been difficult to cope with it.

One thing I've been working on, just like you, is detachment. The thing is, in my mind, she is still my wife so i find myself doing things i used to do and talking to her the way i use to and all of this has huge potential to backfire on me because every time she is unresponsive, I get hurt. furthermore, she might see these things as pursuing and putting pressure on her and this might drive her further away.

My answer to this problem was to take a week away in full NC and try to sort out my issues. Try to build up strength and cry all i have left to cry so that by the time i get back, I should be ready for just about anything she throws at me.

Not easy to let go of the one you love but from reading your thread, I got a lot of good stuff. The main thing is to try to remember what THEY are going through, and as a loving spouse, give them the space, and time they need. I guess it might be a bit the same as seeing your kids leaving home and move on with their lives. We can't hold them back so we have to let them go, lovingly and be there for them always.

[lillystillinlove]

So, I've read quite a few threads of the people kind enough to respond here and many others on this site. Boy, the pain in this forum is profound. But the journey each of you have taken to find a better, safer place is extremely encouraging. I know it's a crap shoot when it come to how my story will end up and I really wish I had loaded dice but the diverse and successful outcomes makes me feel better about the journey I'm taking. Right now I'm ready for the roller coaster with all of your help. We'll see how I'm feeling tomorrow.

[MrBond]

Great goals! Now you have to be sure to stick with them.

"Is that called irony?"

No it's called 'growing'.