Fighting between faith & reality

[sleeper]

I live about 13 miles "East of Eden."

[RoofTop]

Cripes! I think I'm getting somewhere, but I don't like it. Anger comes "after" denial right? If that's the case, then full steam ahead towards progress with ME!

Sleeper - I don't choose to dream of my W. I have the misfortune of trying to find the triggers that spawn such fun dreams. Back in HS I recall having my first 'lucid' dream and I've been intrigued, to say the least, about dreams ever since. I have a very strong recollection of my dreams and I can often find what it was that happened or what "thought" during the day kicked off my subconcious. Where my W is concerned, I don't know. The dreams had been erratic and 1-2 times a week for months. Eh.....

You all bring up interesting points that offer me knew paths of thought. I have been to a L and I know I'm in a lose-lose situation. The L said the same thing about the car - does she really need that car? I don't care either way I guess since the law will ultimately prove to her what I can or can't do. I don't have any inheritance waiting for me, I've worked for what I've earned and I've never asked anyone for a free ride so she can only take what I can give. I'm not sorry if that doesn't work out for either of us.

Am I angry? Yep. I knew it was just a matter of time before she would have something to say to me after all the paper work I provided her. She zeroed in on the fact that I should have said something about buying new school shoes for the kids because she had a coupon ( which EA/OM has gotten for her the last few years ). That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that she's going to go school shopping for the kids and send me the receipts so I can see how much she spent when we split the difference. I don't mind splitting the cost, but where did she see in all the papers I gave her that I have ANY money?! When does she think it's going to magically appear for me to pay her back when she needs it?!

That's where my anger is coming from. I sacrifice my word by continually jumping on the grenade and my word still gets cast to the side as if she's swatting at a gnat.

I'm also aware that I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to get past what S12 said to me the other day. He's angry that I care about his mom even though she talks bad about me to others. I never told him I care about her, but I'm not telling him right or wrong on that - kids don't need to hear that and I don't like lying about it either. I don't care what my W says to others because even if she didn't say anything to anyone I'd still be the bad guy.

I got upset with S12 yesterday when EA/OM's son asked if S12 wanted to come with him somewhere. S12 did what he's always done and said he couldn't because we're going somewhere. I told him, as I always do, if you don't want to do something don't lie about it! Just say you don't want to! So as I expected, EA/OM sent me a text asking if S12 wanted to come with them. UGH!!! That insufferable man and his kids never take 'no' for an answer. I replied back that S12 said he didn't want to go, he wanted to wait for his mom. That's when I got upset with S12. I told him that he needs to stop using me as an excuse. "We're" not going anywhere and saying that we are makes a liar out of me. When he's being dishonest, I get a text from EA/OM or my W. I calmed my voice when trying to address him with reason - If he's so concerned about how his mom talks bad about me to these people, then why would he lie and tell them something that implies that I'm involved in his decision or making it for him?

He seems to understand, but I doubt it. EA/OM, his family and his and my W's friends all treat me with white gloves as if they expect to see something from me similar to how horrible his soon to be XW treats him. It's so condescending and I've never in my life been like that. I'm eternally grateful that I have very limited interaction with any of them.

S12 concluded the other day that everyone liked me until his mom started talking bad about me. I don't know what that means since I don't know what she says, but as far as I'm concerned, their idiots for believing 1 side of the story. I have nothing to say to anyone ( except here ), so my W must be right. That kind of logic is how cults are formed. Idiots.

I am angry and I am focusing on it because I want to burn it out of me. Right or wrong, I'm trying things for the sake of trying so for now I'm stoking my inner fire in hopes of seeing the dawn of a new day - before next semester starts. S12 keeps telling me that his mom won't listen to him when he tries to talk to her about his feelings. She constantly pops off about - "You don't know what your dad did to me." He asked me what that meant and I told him that aside from not being there for her all the time due to my being selfish and lazy, I have no idea. I never insulted her, harmed her or cheated on her so I have to take her word for it. Whatever that is. - That's the most insight I've given S12. He asked and I answered as best I could with what little I know about her line of reasoning.

As for my statement about letting me go.....it's for whatever is keeping me in this game. I'm not asking my W to let me go, she already has. I'm addressing me and my faith. Do I feel obligated to be there for her? I don't know, but I do know I can't seem to go dark enough since there has to be some interaction with her regarding the kids. I do not text her unless it's in reply to something she needs an answer to and I do not call her, EVER, unless I'm returning a call I missed. I have no guilt and no desire to have any communication with her. What frustrates me is that no matter how many times I say I want out, to be free of this, something gets triggered that makes me doubt that I do. I don't know what that is, but I want it to please stop. How can I not care, but not be capable of letting go? What's doing this to me?

As I seek out answers in me and with MLC I wonder if it's because of what I do know that is holding me back. I can't really say. We know there's a playbook that MLC-ers follow and we live that fact daily. I could probably argue that there's a similar playbook for those of us left behind. I'm in a hurry to get off this train my W is on because I know she can never get off with me on there with her. I don't believe I'm on the train so much as my W sees me there. I haven't turned that corner yet. I'm not free.....

I'm reading what I've written over and over and already I'm not angry anymore, but I'll leave the exclamation points in anyways. I want to stay dark for now. Funny thing about that is that I do believe it's pi$$ing my W off even more. At times it feels like she thinks I'm playing a game or purposely isolating her and making it harder on the kids by showing them that we don't like each other or something. It's my fault the marriage didn't work. It's my fault if the kids grow up unstable. Whatever......

[RoofTop]

I'm back a bit soon. When I read what people are saying about their MLC spouse goading someone into a possible argument, I think of the MLC person sounding mean or angry. It's a generalization I have, but my recent experience has me questioning this.

I received a text from my W asking about a stain on the bed side table that was on my side of the bed....

W: " I just now saw my nite stand that was on your side of bed. what did you spill on it"

Giving her the benefit of doubt and believing she wasn't sending me an angry text, I replied exactly how I felt....

RT: "I honestly have no idea what you're referring too. I'm sorry if it's ruined. I assure you it was an accident."

True I took blame for something I don't know anything about, but is very possible. That's not what I'm here about.

My W called me asking if I saw her text, to which I told her I replied a few minutes prior. Her tone was not mean or angry, but neutral. I told her I was sorry, but I don't recall when a spill would have happened. I appologized again. Her tone never got angry as she went into how it was ruined and that she would have to have it stripped and revarnished, if that was at all possible ( it's a family hand-down so color might be tough to find ).

I let her finish, said sorry again for not remembering anything about it and that it ruined her nite stand.

Then she went on and repeated her quip about wishing I hadn't bought the kids shoes. Again - I'm sorry. She brought up the coupon again and I reminded her that she didn't use it last year because neither of the kids like that brand shoe - I redirected blame away from me.

Then she went on about going school supply shopping. I told her I would get what money I could and set it aside this coming payday. She went on about what she's had to spend money on that she doesn't have on whatever, yada yada yada.....

I wonder if she notices I stop talking when she starts to talk about money or complain. I let her ramble on and I suppose she detects I have nothing to say and ends the call.

She didn't sound angry or intentionally mean at all. Is this what most others experience when their MLC spouse tries to draw them in?

[kml]

Sometimes they're just looking for an excuse to talk to you - this doesn't sound like she was spewing.

[MrBond]

I agree with kml.

And besides, stop taking blame for things that you didn't do. It gives your spouse a negative impression of you which is what you don't want.

[AJM]

I think RT is saying he doesn't really care what she thinks at this point, MB. I think that's the problem he's trying to figure out.

That's where my anger is coming from. I sacrifice my word by continually jumping on the grenade and my word still gets cast to the side as if she's swatting at a gnat.

I think I'm seeing something here. Do you see where part of the anger is coming from yet? Where there is lack of trust...? Which makes sense in some ways.

I'm also aware that I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to get past what S12 said to me the other day. He's angry that I care about his mom even though she talks bad about me to others.

First off, good that you notice that you have some difficulty with it. You don't have to tell your kids you care about her. It's written all over you. You do care. Even if you want to stop caring, you still do. It's not a switch.

S12 concluded the other day that everyone liked me until his mom started talking bad about me. I don't know what that means since I don't know what she says, but as far as I'm concerned, their idiots for believing 1 side of the story. I have nothing to say to anyone ( except here ), so my W must be right. That kind of logic is how cults are formed. Idiots.

Good for you for not paying attention. But I think you do care a little. It sounds like it. But honestly, I think that this is fairly normal right? I mean, she wouldn't leave a perfectly good man would she? She'd have to be crazy to do that! Nope. She needs people to listen and validate and believe her. Some will for a while. Those that knew you both will figure it out in time. They always do. Those that didn't really know you or are new to the scene, won't. In my case, my ex needed all new friends and some old but disconnected ones for this role. Friends choose sides in these situations. But they also change over time so let it play out...

RT, I think I see some of the anger and the...emotions. I think your counselor was honing in on the absence of feelings because that's far worse than feeling things. Been there. But when all the feelings are so tightly wound together, it can be hard to get them out. But they are there. I see them oozing out in the posts. It's just a matter of time really even though nobody can guess as to the extent. Keep working on the feelings, but make sure they are your feelings and not what "you're supposed to feel" right? I think you know that.

As for your son, have you considered he is hurt too. He is dealing with his emotions as best he can and can't tell anyone other than you. That's a shame, but it's important that you understand he is in pain as well. He may sometimes try and avoid things that make him uncomfortable by telling people he is doing things with you and can't with them. Be patient. He'll figure it out too, although for now his security and world has been turned upside down and his mom is telling people what a monster you are. That's got to be hard for a kid.

The legal stuff will be over soon enough. The raising of the kids will be gone before you know it too.

Finally, have you considered your wife is hurt too? Seriously, I know that sounds funny, but she is. She is trying to heal as best she can as well. Be patient. It'll fall into place...

Peace,
AJ

[sleeper]

RoofTop,

Bottom line: She's confused. It's not that uncommon to get slew from them and then they initiate contact, nice as can be like nothing happened. Mine actually said a few months post bomb/separation, "I think Im depressed. Sometimes I feel like Im supposed to be with you and the kids." of course she cntinued to flip back and forth between spew and kindness eventually filing for D a couple of months later.

Don't try to figue out why she does what she does. You'll go crazy.

I guess that's why many advise detachment. I was never good at it due to shared custody of the kids. Some in that sitch have pulled it off proving it can be done.

[RoofTop]

My two bits on anger....

Today's a new day and even though I don't believe for a second I'm past it, I know that it's not what I want. I've been exploring my anger for less than a week and I've not liked my thought process through these past several days. I feel stress where I shouldn't and I hate it. While at home w/o the kids I've been taking care of things that need to get done and without school right now I've even fit in a few movies. I've been pretty pleased with things, the heat wave that's killed many of the flowers and plants my W left behind have been recovering with my extra attention. I'm excited about seeing how I've been able to help the dead leaves get replaced by healthy green ones and the plants I've started a few months back are doing great. I've never had a green thumb and this is fun.

Then I met with my W to pick up the kids and instantly the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. I couldn't look at her, I detested her. When she looked at me I made certain to be looking at the kids because I was forcing a smile on my face that I didn't want there. I didn't want her to think I was okay with her being so close to my proximity. I was tired after a long day at work and it took me hours to settle down after that exchange. It bothered me that the kids noticed and S12 was asking me if everything was okay. I made sure to not be frowning during those few hours, and with a shrug of my shoulders I simply smiled and said I was tired after a long day at work.

I was so angry with myself and my W. This is not where I want to be at all. Not in reference to her, but within me. S12 went off on me again yesterday about his mom. My heart is shattered about him. He was trying so hard not to cry. He has so many feelings that I wish I could do more about for him. He said some things that got me thinking and not just about how to respond to him.

He said that his mom is always griping to her friends about the things I'm doing that's making her mad. Like how I bought the kids school shoes. Instead of being happy with the fact that she doesn't have to spend money on new shoes for the kids, she's mad I didn't communicate with her because she had a coupon. What's better than a coupon? -> Free. So in effect, she's wasting energy being upset.

Something went down as well that was minor, but S12 used me as an excuse to not accept an invitation instead of saying that he didn't want to go. I then received a text from EA/OM that he could come by and pick up the kids and save me a trip if I wanted. I wasn't mad that EA/OM believed he would be doing me a favor, I was upset that S12 didn't just say no and I got brought in as though I was the one telling him what to say and do.

I told him I didn't like feeling as though W and her friends are giving me the impression that I'm brainwashing him and his brother to not like their mother. He jumped on me and said that's only because of what his mom is telling others. I told him either way, it's dishonest and that if he didn't want to go somewhere with someone then he should feel comfortable enough to say no and leave me out of it.

And so I thought......and thought. My W is constantly angered by me or what I do or am not doing. Maybe not every day or every week, she gripes about me to her friends and EA/OM. She does this whether I do nothing or anything at all. This is where I saw my anger going. I don't like that at all, it's not me. I know why she gripes to her friends, someone has to believe her that I'm a monster that is still mistreating her and her family doesn't believe her. So I understand and I'm okay with it.

I'm not okay with living like her. I don't want to be angry. I had my first dream in weeks with my W in it. This was different in that we were talking to each other. It was also different in that she was intentionally being vengeful towards me. She was asking money for school stuff and other stuff. I told her I only had $$ left in my 401K and that there was no more to give. In my dream she smiled at me and said "Don't you mean $$?". When I didn't pick up on her clue that she was saying half of my 401K was hers she said it in my dream.

I woke up in a good mood after that dream. I'm not scared of losing a 401K plan. There's hardly anything in there and I was going to use what's left on a down payment on a new/used car. There's almost nothing in it so I'm not threatened. I woke up feeling good, because I'm content with who I am, where I'll be tomorrow and there's no hate in my life. I feel sorry for her. If she follows the MLC script, the part about coming down to earth and seeing the damage laying in her wake, I feel so sorry for her.

I woke up today in a good mood and without anger. It's not gone, but I'm not interested in it by choice. I told my boys yesterday that I was very sorry, that none of us expected this to happen or wanted it too, but I love them and I'm here for them. That whenever they are at home with me, I am here for them and nobody else.

They told me they didn't like EA/OM in that he always curses around them and yells at them at times. I told them I'm sorry that I couldn't do anything about that, that their mom is not happy with me right now and wouldn't be very happy with me passing judgement on EA/OM. I told them that they should never stop telling their mom how they feel about someone and that they should know they have a right to stand up for themselves, even if that means they speak out at the EA/OM.

EA/OM hasn't and wouldn't physically harm my kids, he's not that way, but I disapprove of his fathering skills with his kids and my boys do too. But I know that he's there for my W right now and he's defending her actions when the kids are expressing their anger towards her. He's serving his purpose in her life. I'm sad for her.

The only anger I have it seems is with me for thinking I wouldn't reconcile with her at any cost. That if the day comes that she crashes, I would stand and watch her suffer alone so she could know the depth of the pain she caused me and our kids. Those thoughts make me angry because that's the person I stopped being years ago and I don't ever want him to come back.

[AJM]

I think you are progressing nicely RT. Told you I saw anger, and I still do. Doesn't mean you have to be angry at her. Do you see that now?

I totally relate to the part about p*ssing on her when she's down. I was that way for a while as well. Same with OM. Honestly though, I eventually got to a place where I realized it (you're faster than me) and figured out I only wanted that as revenge. I really don't want revenge because of who I am and have always been. Revenge is not mine and not my place. Don't need nor want it.

I think you said some powerful things to the kids that will help them. I applaud that.

As for not wanting to look at your W? I get that too. I had no desire to see her for a very long time. Eventually, I got to a place where I really don't care either way. I do know that I cannot have a conversation with her (tried many times). It's like talking to a Chinese person - they aren't going to understand my English no matter what I say.

Keep feeling. Keep working on it. You are doing great in that regard....

AJ

[sleeper]

RoofTop,

The shoes issue may be more about her losing control of decisions about the kids more than anything else.