Piecing - Round 1

[Denver_2010]

Wow! Lots of good posts since I was here last week. Thanks everyone!

Not planning on updating as often as I used to, but here is a quick one.

UPDATE:

Went camping with W, SS, SS's friend, mother in law and father inlaw on Wednesday and Thursday. Had a great time. On Friday W, SS, SS's friend and myself headed to Vail for 2 nights (yes, W and I spent last weekend there too).

Had a hiccup on Saturday night. At dinner a picture that SS had taken with our governor came up. It was taken during a time when W and I were not talking. I asked SS where the picture was taken. I was just wondering and showing my interest in how he had gotten to do that. Well, it was taken during an outing that W and SS had had with OM. SS came up with a pretty elaborate lie about the circumstances of the picture. I knew right away and didn't ask any more questions. When SS and his friend went to the bathroom, W told me the actual story of what had happened. Really not a big deal.

But... the conversation triggered thoughts in my head, which led to me becoming distant for the rest of the evening. When we got back to the hotel W and I stepped outside and ended up in an argument. As much as I tried not to, I ended up telling her how I felt about the whole situation with OM. We obviously will never agree about what to call that R, so I don't know why I did this. Anyway, we went to bed angry with each other for the first time since she returned home.

The next morning we had a follow up argument about it. Basically the same stuff from the night before rehashed. She says that she left me, that she was DONE, and that she chose to date OM. She told me that she chose to approach our S differently than I did and that that is the way that it is. That we can't change the past. She is right.

After our argument on Sunday morning, I took about 30 minutes to myself to regroup. I managed to reign in my emotions and regain my perspective on things. I went down to the pool where W and the kids were. I told W that I was sorry that we argued. I told her that we are never going to agree on the subject, but that she was right, it is in the past and that we just need to move on from it. I told her that I was working on it, but that it is going to take me some time to get to a place where I don't think about it and where my emotions are not triggered by certain topics or conversations.

Things were better, but not great, the rest of the day. We drove back to Denver and did some unpacking at the house. At the end of the night, we watch an episode of Game of Thrones together. We shared a couple of laughs about the weekend and the kids. By the time we went to sleep, we were holding each other. Today, the argument seems to be done with.

The other thing that has happened since i last posted is that W has notified the owner of the music company that she works for that she will no longer take gigs that OM is on. For those of you who don't know or don't remember, my W is a professional vocalist and OM is a ridiculous trumpet player. They typically have half a dozen or so shows together ever year. She will no longer be doing this.

OM texted W yesterday... "Am I allowed to ask how you and SS are doing?"... W did not respond to it. Later, he texted again... "K. Guess not."

W was honest and forthright about the contact.

Oh, and I forget if I mentioned this or not, but OM tried to friend me on FB last week.

A few responses to some of your posts:

Denver_2010,

I saw this in a previous thread you wrote, possibly over a year ago (the bold and underlined bits are mine):

I did not defend my W when my family criticized her about an issue that I will not go into here. I told my W that she needed to just get over it. I yelled at my W. I showed my W anger. I threatened her with financial superiority and control. I did not spend time with my W and/or my SS. I did not communicate to her. I did not tell her that I cared what was going on in her life. She told me numerous times that she was 'lonely'. I did not care. I thought my W was spoiled bc I provided for her.

I did not respect my W. I did not live up to my marriage vows. I sat and slept on the couch, watching t.v., expecting that things would fix themselves. Literally convincing myself that I did not care if my W left or stayed.

For 7+ years my W loved me despite my failings, despite my flaws, and despite how I made her feel that she was not good enough for me. She was faithful to me during all of that time. Despite everything.

My W had threatened to leave me a few times, and I always called her bluff. I honestly never thought that she never would. I thought that she needed me. I did NOT believe that I needed her.

My word Brother, I could have written this. In fact I think I did.

Thanks for reminding me of this GH! LOL!

Yeah, I was not a good H. I've learned so much from this. And I work everyday to not be like that. To not only be a better H, but to be a better man.

It also reminds me of how much I really do love my wife and my two children.

Please forgive your wife. It will be tough Denver, and it will a process, not an event. Waves of extreme hatred, bitterness and resentment will come and you'll want to rehash everything.

Don't.

Exactly what happened this past weekend. I got SO angry in my head that I could not control my actions or my words. On the brightside, I was able to pull myself out of it. In the past, I may have gone weeks without speaking to her. I am working on it.

And yes, it does remind me of how much I love my W. Sometimes, when she is not paying attention, I just look at her and am in disbelief that she is there with me. I sometimes even tear up when this happens. While I feel that I have forgiven her, I do still struggle with the 'why' of it all. Why did she make the choices that she made. But I think that you answered it with the rest of your post...

Affairs act like a drug in the cheater's blood and the putrid chemicals that infect their brains render them incapable of empathy, sound judgement, rational thought and all the best attributes of being a human being. These faculties are "switched off" - often for a couple of years.

Yup. And I'd also add that in cases like mine, the WAS often has divorced us in their mind and in their heart (emotional D) even if the legal paperwork hasn't been filed. In these cases, the WAS truly doesn't see anything wrong with their R with OP. And maybe they are right.

Thanks GH.

I am confident that my W has ended it. That actually occurred about 6 months ago, but he lingered around until about a month ago. She was very clear with him this time. Blocked him on FB (although he did try to friend me last week LOL) and blocked his number on our cell phone plan. I've heard it before, but I sense a real difference when we talk about it. I could still be wrong, I know, but are there ever any real guarantees? She does know that if she resumes any real contact with him, that I am done and will file. There is no gray area anymore with me. I've made that very, very clear to her.

Those real guarantees come with time and the rebuilding of trust.

Six years later? That last time I looked at my wife's phone...was a year ago? I don't know, I know I did, I know that I look forward to saying the last time I looked was over two years ago.

Yep. I still catch myself looking at W's phone at times. Not snooping, but when it rings or a text comes in. I am trying to work on not doing that.

Understand that the loser OM that you have described, and we have talked about will likely try and keep trying to contact her. Not...her contacting him, but him trying to contact her.

We have discussed this at length for over a year now Jack! LOL! I didn't believe you at first, but man were you right! This guy is a piece of work.

W says that, from Nov of '11 through April of '12, she was trying to let him down easy... that she didn't want to crush him. This time around, she has told me that she was 'not exactly nice' to him. She has admitted that this is the only way that he is going to get it. Apparently, that still hasn't happened completely.

W is also very aware that I am done letting her handle it in a nice way.

Try not to get upset about that. Barring her putting him down with a bullet, it takes a stalker about two years on average(research on the internet) to find a new fixation. She should be telling you when he does try to get ahold of her. BUT very important here, based upon YOUR reaction to this news will aslo determine if she keeps telling you.

Imagine if you get upset, visibly, and/or more importantly at her for this douche bag trying to get in touch with her. While she is being honest and open and living up to what you want her to do, what is her reward if you get upset?

Think about it. The next time he trys to contact her why would she want you to get upset or worst case mad at her? And if she doesn't tell you and you find out?

We talked about pitfalls? That was one I got stuck in.

So be careful of YOUR reaction to her honesty about something she has no control over.

This guy is a douche bag, with douch bag tactics...do not let this loser impeded you and your wife reconcilling.

Agreed, understood, and accepted. I don't think that this will be a problem. I recognize that when he contacts her, as he did yesterday, that it is not her fault.

BUT, if she engages him in conversation or encourages that contact in any way, I will not accept it. That's just my line at this point. So far, W is good with that and has taken the necessary steps to make me feel comfortable. AND, she has done this stuff, such as contacting her boss about not taking gigs with the OM, without me pressuring her to do so. I merely told her how I felt and she did what she felt was right.

Jack and GH, both of these posts are awesome, so many of us need to hear these things and im glad you posted them here.

Denver, its awesome to hear the stories of those who get their spouse back. Although I know we're supposed to be ok either way, I dont think anyone would be at this particular site if it wasn't for the fact that they wanted to save their marriage. Good for you and keep working and let us know what works and doesn't once piecing starts cause im hopeful to get to that stage one day.

Yep. I never accepted that any of us came here to merely work on ourselves. I agree that it is important, and in most cases, where the benefit of the work will come. BUT I came here to save my M. End of story. But there is no quesiton that the rest has been great and life changing for sure.

Good luck with your efforts! 99.9% of the population would not go to the lengths that most of us here do to save a M. Thus the reason why our D rate is so high... IMO.

Hi Carnac,

I would love to see more men get their wives back. However, getting her back takes everything you've got. All the strength, resilience, courage, self control and gamesmanship you can imagine and more.

I agree with every word of this ^^ completely. It has been the most difficult thing that I have ever done. And the most difficult time of my life, bar none.

Gamesmanship? Yup. Agree with that too. I think that everything that we do has to be sincere and real, and I agree that this not a game, but every move that we make, every word that we speak, is significant and can be what makes or breaks our efforts to save our M's.

Most importantly, every single man I've seen get his wife back "manned up" and resolutely refused to get sucked into their drama. None of them tried the appeasement, enabling, groveling or supplicating route. Not one. They all took a very firm stand.

Agree with this mostly. At the end of the day, I did have to do what you quote below. BUT, that was after months and months of showing my W that I had changed, that I did take responsibility for my role in the breakdown in the M, that I was sorry for that, and that I was capable of letting her have the time necessary to forgive me and grow as a person herself.

If I had done what I did at the beginning of May and asked for a D, or if I had said what you quote below GH, say a year ago, my M would have ended. My M needed a period of me letting W live her life and figure things out on her own. And while she did that, I ate a huge sh*t sandwich much of the time. But I was also showing her a completely different 'me'. A 'me' that she did not know that I was capable of.

In the end, I believe that ALL of it resulted in me being where I am today. Even though many here thought I was making huge mistakes along the way, there are very few things that I have done or said during the past 18+ months of my sitch that I would change.

While it was the worst thing that I've ever had to go through, so far it has been very worth it. Losing something so important, believing that it may be gone for good, and then getting it back... well, nothing feels that good.

Things like this:

Later that week, still mid-June, she asked me if I wanted to meet her for a drink. I was at home. I told her 'no', but that she could come to the house to have a drink and talk if she liked. For the 6 months that we were 'dating', she would refuse to come to our home bc she said it didn't feel like her home anymore and that she felt 'weird' there.

...and this:

This time I insisted that it was the only way that I would agree to see her.

...and this:

I told her that I was absolutely DONE with OM being her or step son's life at all. That I would no longer be nice about it. That if she would not take care of it, that I would.

This is how it's done fellas. You work on the things which drove your wives away, and if they're having an affair (99% of the time they are), this is how you handle it. Soft, gentle tones delivered without anger but very, very blunt and backed up by resolute action.

Great job Denver!

GH31

thanks again GH!

I would also submit that 99% of them did try other things first.

Yes, but sometimes that is necessary Harrier. Being a terrible H and then jumping out of the gate by being a 'man' will end the M. It would have mine. That I know.

Like I said above, yes I did try other things first, but I believe that it was ALL a necessary part of the process that I went through. Very few things that I would do differently if I had to do it over again (which I don't think I could do in this lifetime).

DBing is whatever works.

The most truthful statement ever uttered.

It is.

Thanks everyone!

Denver