Piecing - Round 1

[GH31]

Hi Carnac,

I would love to see more men get their wives back. However, getting her back takes everything you've got. All the strength, resilience, courage, self control and gamesmanship you can imagine and more.

Most importantly, every single man I've seen get his wife back "manned up" and resolutely refused to get sucked into their drama. None of them tried the appeasement, enabling, groveling or supplicating route. Not one. They all took a very firm stand.

Things like this:

Later that week, still mid-June, she asked me if I wanted to meet her for a drink. I was at home. I told her 'no', but that she could come to the house to have a drink and talk if she liked. For the 6 months that we were 'dating', she would refuse to come to our home bc she said it didn't feel like her home anymore and that she felt 'weird' there.

...and this:

This time I insisted that it was the only way that I would agree to see her.

...and this:

I told her that I was absolutely DONE with OM being her or step son's life at all. That I would no longer be nice about it. That if she would not take care of it, that I would.

This is how it's done fellas. You work on the things which drove your wives away, and if they're having an affair (99% of the time they are), this is how you handle it. Soft, gentle tones delivered without anger but very, very blunt and backed up by resolute action.

Great job Denver!

GH31

[Starsky309]

Hi Carnac,

I would love to see more men get their wives back. However, getting her back takes everything you've got. All the strength, resilience, courage, self control and gamesmanship you can imagine and more.

Most importantly, every single man I've seen get his wife back "manned up" and resolutely refused to get sucked into their drama. None of them tried the appeasement, enabling, groveling or supplicating route. Not one. They all took a very firm stand.

Things like this:

Later that week, still mid-June, she asked me if I wanted to meet her for a drink. I was at home. I told her 'no', but that she could come to the house to have a drink and talk if she liked. For the 6 months that we were 'dating', she would refuse to come to our home bc she said it didn't feel like her home anymore and that she felt 'weird' there.

...and this:

This time I insisted that it was the only way that I would agree to see her.

...and this:

I told her that I was absolutely DONE with OM being her or step son's life at all. That I would no longer be nice about it. That if she would not take care of it, that I would.

This is how it's done fellas. You work on the things which drove your wives away, and if they're having an affair (99% of the time they are), this is how you handle it. Soft, gentle tones delivered without anger but very, very blunt and backed up by resolute action.

Great job Denver!

GH31

BINGO.

[greenblue90]

Yep totally agree.

[Harrier]

Hi Carnac,

I would love to see more men get their wives back. However, getting her back takes everything you've got. All the strength, resilience, courage, self control and gamesmanship you can imagine and more.

But, but, but, but...it's not a game. Utter BS. Of course it is.

And you just proved it.

But I depart from your comment in a few ways.

Doing it to just be a D!ck won't work or be healthy in the long run. You've just replaced a broken dynamic with a new broken dynamic.

Doing it to "show" her or for "revenges" is also not healthy.

Doing it because you read it NMMNG, same.

Doing it because you respect yourself, respect your relationships, respect your SO. Is healthy.

I would also submit that 99% of them did try other things first.

Lastly, this may get your W back, but it's really no way to have a marriage. IMO.

[GH31]

Doing it because you respect yourself, respect your relationships, respect your SO. Is healthy.

Yep.

I would also submit that 99% of them did try other things first.

Yep.

Lastly, this may get your W back ...

Yep.

... but it's really no way to have a marriage. IMO.

Yep.

DBing is whatever works.

Once the affair is over and the withdrawal and grieving process for the adultery partner complete, then a differnt approach is required to restore love, trust and intimacy, and move from strength to strength thereafter.

My wife's A ended some time in July 2009. Funnily enough, she has also stopped acting like a vile piece of slime and has once again become the wonderful woman I fell in love with all those years ago. If I were to behave with "gamesmanship" now it would be absurd. There is nothing that I have to take a "strong stand" against.

Denver (remember this is his thread) will find that in his own journey no doubt as he and his wife work their way out of the place they're in right now. Nowadays I focus on being an alpha male and speaking my wife's love language as much as possible, something I need to do more of while I think about it.

Anyway, Denver this thread is all about you and we would love an update.

best,
GH31

[Carnac]

Great advice guys I appreciate it.

Denver, how are things going now? I know one the piecing begins it becomes an all encompassing focus, but throw us a bone here. Im excited for you and hope that things are going well.

[Denver_2010]

Wow! Lots of good posts since I was here last week. Thanks everyone!

Not planning on updating as often as I used to, but here is a quick one.

UPDATE:

Went camping with W, SS, SS's friend, mother in law and father inlaw on Wednesday and Thursday. Had a great time. On Friday W, SS, SS's friend and myself headed to Vail for 2 nights (yes, W and I spent last weekend there too).

Had a hiccup on Saturday night. At dinner a picture that SS had taken with our governor came up. It was taken during a time when W and I were not talking. I asked SS where the picture was taken. I was just wondering and showing my interest in how he had gotten to do that. Well, it was taken during an outing that W and SS had had with OM. SS came up with a pretty elaborate lie about the circumstances of the picture. I knew right away and didn't ask any more questions. When SS and his friend went to the bathroom, W told me the actual story of what had happened. Really not a big deal.

But... the conversation triggered thoughts in my head, which led to me becoming distant for the rest of the evening. When we got back to the hotel W and I stepped outside and ended up in an argument. As much as I tried not to, I ended up telling her how I felt about the whole situation with OM. We obviously will never agree about what to call that R, so I don't know why I did this. Anyway, we went to bed angry with each other for the first time since she returned home.

The next morning we had a follow up argument about it. Basically the same stuff from the night before rehashed. She says that she left me, that she was DONE, and that she chose to date OM. She told me that she chose to approach our S differently than I did and that that is the way that it is. That we can't change the past. She is right.

After our argument on Sunday morning, I took about 30 minutes to myself to regroup. I managed to reign in my emotions and regain my perspective on things. I went down to the pool where W and the kids were. I told W that I was sorry that we argued. I told her that we are never going to agree on the subject, but that she was right, it is in the past and that we just need to move on from it. I told her that I was working on it, but that it is going to take me some time to get to a place where I don't think about it and where my emotions are not triggered by certain topics or conversations.

Things were better, but not great, the rest of the day. We drove back to Denver and did some unpacking at the house. At the end of the night, we watch an episode of Game of Thrones together. We shared a couple of laughs about the weekend and the kids. By the time we went to sleep, we were holding each other. Today, the argument seems to be done with.

The other thing that has happened since i last posted is that W has notified the owner of the music company that she works for that she will no longer take gigs that OM is on. For those of you who don't know or don't remember, my W is a professional vocalist and OM is a ridiculous trumpet player. They typically have half a dozen or so shows together ever year. She will no longer be doing this.

OM texted W yesterday... "Am I allowed to ask how you and SS are doing?"... W did not respond to it. Later, he texted again... "K. Guess not."

W was honest and forthright about the contact.

Oh, and I forget if I mentioned this or not, but OM tried to friend me on FB last week.

A few responses to some of your posts:

Denver_2010,

I saw this in a previous thread you wrote, possibly over a year ago (the bold and underlined bits are mine):

I did not defend my W when my family criticized her about an issue that I will not go into here. I told my W that she needed to just get over it. I yelled at my W. I showed my W anger. I threatened her with financial superiority and control. I did not spend time with my W and/or my SS. I did not communicate to her. I did not tell her that I cared what was going on in her life. She told me numerous times that she was 'lonely'. I did not care. I thought my W was spoiled bc I provided for her.

I did not respect my W. I did not live up to my marriage vows. I sat and slept on the couch, watching t.v., expecting that things would fix themselves. Literally convincing myself that I did not care if my W left or stayed.

For 7+ years my W loved me despite my failings, despite my flaws, and despite how I made her feel that she was not good enough for me. She was faithful to me during all of that time. Despite everything.

My W had threatened to leave me a few times, and I always called her bluff. I honestly never thought that she never would. I thought that she needed me. I did NOT believe that I needed her.

My word Brother, I could have written this. In fact I think I did.

Thanks for reminding me of this GH! LOL!

Yeah, I was not a good H. I've learned so much from this. And I work everyday to not be like that. To not only be a better H, but to be a better man.

It also reminds me of how much I really do love my wife and my two children.

Please forgive your wife. It will be tough Denver, and it will a process, not an event. Waves of extreme hatred, bitterness and resentment will come and you'll want to rehash everything.

Don't.

Exactly what happened this past weekend. I got SO angry in my head that I could not control my actions or my words. On the brightside, I was able to pull myself out of it. In the past, I may have gone weeks without speaking to her. I am working on it.

And yes, it does remind me of how much I love my W. Sometimes, when she is not paying attention, I just look at her and am in disbelief that she is there with me. I sometimes even tear up when this happens. While I feel that I have forgiven her, I do still struggle with the 'why' of it all. Why did she make the choices that she made. But I think that you answered it with the rest of your post...

Affairs act like a drug in the cheater's blood and the putrid chemicals that infect their brains render them incapable of empathy, sound judgement, rational thought and all the best attributes of being a human being. These faculties are "switched off" - often for a couple of years.

Yup. And I'd also add that in cases like mine, the WAS often has divorced us in their mind and in their heart (emotional D) even if the legal paperwork hasn't been filed. In these cases, the WAS truly doesn't see anything wrong with their R with OP. And maybe they are right.

Thanks GH.

I am confident that my W has ended it. That actually occurred about 6 months ago, but he lingered around until about a month ago. She was very clear with him this time. Blocked him on FB (although he did try to friend me last week LOL) and blocked his number on our cell phone plan. I've heard it before, but I sense a real difference when we talk about it. I could still be wrong, I know, but are there ever any real guarantees? She does know that if she resumes any real contact with him, that I am done and will file. There is no gray area anymore with me. I've made that very, very clear to her.

Those real guarantees come with time and the rebuilding of trust.

Six years later? That last time I looked at my wife's phone...was a year ago? I don't know, I know I did, I know that I look forward to saying the last time I looked was over two years ago.

Yep. I still catch myself looking at W's phone at times. Not snooping, but when it rings or a text comes in. I am trying to work on not doing that.

Understand that the loser OM that you have described, and we have talked about will likely try and keep trying to contact her. Not...her contacting him, but him trying to contact her.

We have discussed this at length for over a year now Jack! LOL! I didn't believe you at first, but man were you right! This guy is a piece of work.

W says that, from Nov of '11 through April of '12, she was trying to let him down easy... that she didn't want to crush him. This time around, she has told me that she was 'not exactly nice' to him. She has admitted that this is the only way that he is going to get it. Apparently, that still hasn't happened completely.

W is also very aware that I am done letting her handle it in a nice way.

Try not to get upset about that. Barring her putting him down with a bullet, it takes a stalker about two years on average(research on the internet) to find a new fixation. She should be telling you when he does try to get ahold of her. BUT very important here, based upon YOUR reaction to this news will aslo determine if she keeps telling you.

Imagine if you get upset, visibly, and/or more importantly at her for this douche bag trying to get in touch with her. While she is being honest and open and living up to what you want her to do, what is her reward if you get upset?

Think about it. The next time he trys to contact her why would she want you to get upset or worst case mad at her? And if she doesn't tell you and you find out?

We talked about pitfalls? That was one I got stuck in.

So be careful of YOUR reaction to her honesty about something she has no control over.

This guy is a douche bag, with douch bag tactics...do not let this loser impeded you and your wife reconcilling.

Agreed, understood, and accepted. I don't think that this will be a problem. I recognize that when he contacts her, as he did yesterday, that it is not her fault.

BUT, if she engages him in conversation or encourages that contact in any way, I will not accept it. That's just my line at this point. So far, W is good with that and has taken the necessary steps to make me feel comfortable. AND, she has done this stuff, such as contacting her boss about not taking gigs with the OM, without me pressuring her to do so. I merely told her how I felt and she did what she felt was right.

Jack and GH, both of these posts are awesome, so many of us need to hear these things and im glad you posted them here.

Denver, its awesome to hear the stories of those who get their spouse back. Although I know we're supposed to be ok either way, I dont think anyone would be at this particular site if it wasn't for the fact that they wanted to save their marriage. Good for you and keep working and let us know what works and doesn't once piecing starts cause im hopeful to get to that stage one day.

Yep. I never accepted that any of us came here to merely work on ourselves. I agree that it is important, and in most cases, where the benefit of the work will come. BUT I came here to save my M. End of story. But there is no quesiton that the rest has been great and life changing for sure.

Good luck with your efforts! 99.9% of the population would not go to the lengths that most of us here do to save a M. Thus the reason why our D rate is so high... IMO.

Hi Carnac,

I would love to see more men get their wives back. However, getting her back takes everything you've got. All the strength, resilience, courage, self control and gamesmanship you can imagine and more.

I agree with every word of this ^^ completely. It has been the most difficult thing that I have ever done. And the most difficult time of my life, bar none.

Gamesmanship? Yup. Agree with that too. I think that everything that we do has to be sincere and real, and I agree that this not a game, but every move that we make, every word that we speak, is significant and can be what makes or breaks our efforts to save our M's.

Most importantly, every single man I've seen get his wife back "manned up" and resolutely refused to get sucked into their drama. None of them tried the appeasement, enabling, groveling or supplicating route. Not one. They all took a very firm stand.

Agree with this mostly. At the end of the day, I did have to do what you quote below. BUT, that was after months and months of showing my W that I had changed, that I did take responsibility for my role in the breakdown in the M, that I was sorry for that, and that I was capable of letting her have the time necessary to forgive me and grow as a person herself.

If I had done what I did at the beginning of May and asked for a D, or if I had said what you quote below GH, say a year ago, my M would have ended. My M needed a period of me letting W live her life and figure things out on her own. And while she did that, I ate a huge sh*t sandwich much of the time. But I was also showing her a completely different 'me'. A 'me' that she did not know that I was capable of.

In the end, I believe that ALL of it resulted in me being where I am today. Even though many here thought I was making huge mistakes along the way, there are very few things that I have done or said during the past 18+ months of my sitch that I would change.

While it was the worst thing that I've ever had to go through, so far it has been very worth it. Losing something so important, believing that it may be gone for good, and then getting it back... well, nothing feels that good.

Things like this:

Later that week, still mid-June, she asked me if I wanted to meet her for a drink. I was at home. I told her 'no', but that she could come to the house to have a drink and talk if she liked. For the 6 months that we were 'dating', she would refuse to come to our home bc she said it didn't feel like her home anymore and that she felt 'weird' there.

...and this:

This time I insisted that it was the only way that I would agree to see her.

...and this:

I told her that I was absolutely DONE with OM being her or step son's life at all. That I would no longer be nice about it. That if she would not take care of it, that I would.

This is how it's done fellas. You work on the things which drove your wives away, and if they're having an affair (99% of the time they are), this is how you handle it. Soft, gentle tones delivered without anger but very, very blunt and backed up by resolute action.

Great job Denver!

GH31

thanks again GH!

I would also submit that 99% of them did try other things first.

Yes, but sometimes that is necessary Harrier. Being a terrible H and then jumping out of the gate by being a 'man' will end the M. It would have mine. That I know.

Like I said above, yes I did try other things first, but I believe that it was ALL a necessary part of the process that I went through. Very few things that I would do differently if I had to do it over again (which I don't think I could do in this lifetime).

DBing is whatever works.

The most truthful statement ever uttered.

It is.

Thanks everyone!

Denver

[GH31]

G'day Denver,

Good to hear from you and to get something of an update.

All sounding very familiar I have to say although your wife is considerably more remorseful and contrite than mine was at the beginning of us recovering. I really do think you have an excellent opportunity here to make your marriage better than it has ever been.

The other thing that has happened since i last posted is that W has notified the owner of the music company that she works for that she will no longer take gigs that OM is on.

Mate, this is huge. The fact that she herself is taking the initiative to end contact. Mine did not do this. OM dumped my W when it became apparent she was pregnant with my baby. In the end it was conversations I had with OM that persuaded him to change all his numbers, email addresses and call the police to make sure W wouldn't hassle him anymore. My Mrs. left OM to come back to me but still wanted contact with him and to keep the fantasy (addiction) alive. As you can imagine this was a big deal breaker for me and her ego was severely damaged from being thrown on the sh*t pile.

For those of you who don't know or don't remember, my W is a professional vocalist and OM is a ridiculous trumpet player. They typically have half a dozen or so shows together ever year. She will no longer be doing this.

Again, huge.

OM texted W yesterday... "Am I allowed to ask how you and SS are doing?"... W did not respond to it. Later, he texted again... "K. Guess not."

Any chance you could change the cell phone number? The inconvenience would last 2 weeks maximum after which everyone you'll want to hear from will have her number.

W was honest and forthright about the contact.

Excellent.

Oh, and I forget if I mentioned this or not, but OM tried to friend me on FB last week.

What an absolute pathetic excuse for a human being.

Agree with this mostly. At the end of the day, I did have to do what you quote below. BUT, that was after months and months of showing my W that I had changed, that I did take responsibility for my role in the breakdown in the M, that I was sorry for that, and that I was capable of letting her have the time necessary to forgive me and grow as a person herself.

The same was so for me. I had spent a couple of months showing my wife with actions that I understood why she was hurting so much and that I wouldn’t ever repeat those errors with her or any other woman. I too ensured (without saying the words) that she sensed a sincere change by spending time with me. The more pleasant I made the interactions, the more interactions she wanted to have. My W needed time too and moreover I needed the solitude bigtime in order to confront all my demons. I couldn’t have done it if I were with her.

If I had done what I did at the beginning of May and asked for a D, or if I had said what you quote below GH, say a year ago, my M would have ended.

Mine would as well. The only reason I took a very strong stand with my wife was we reached the stage where she said she was going to come home and “work on us”, set a date .... and decided to go on a last fling trip with OM instead. She then tried to move the dates and I said ”No darling, I am going back to Australia as I said I would if you didn’t come. We will have no communication until you’re 0% or 100% sure you want out marriage”. So I left our rented apartment in Berlin, flew back to Australia and went pitch dark. I didn’t check emails for weeks and did not respond to her many texts.

My M needed a period of me letting W live her life and figure things out on her own. And while she did that, I ate a huge sh*t sandwich much of the time.

LOL! Sounds very familiar. Man I swallowed a lot of sh*t!! Breath must have stunk for a good few months thereafter.

Actually why am I laughing about that? Will take it as a good sign that the trauma has passed.

Had a hiccup on Saturday night. At dinner a picture that SS had taken with our governor came up. It was taken during a time when W and I were not talking. I asked SS where the picture was taken. I was just wondering and showing my interest in how he had gotten to do that. Well, it was taken during an outing that W and SS had had with OM. SS came up with a pretty elaborate lie about the circumstances of the picture. I knew right away and didn't ask any more questions. When SS and his friend went to the bathroom, W told me the actual story of what had happened. Really not a big deal.

But... the conversation triggered thoughts in my head, which led to me becoming distant for the rest of the evening. When we got back to the hotel W and I stepped outside and ended up in an argument. As much as I tried not to, I ended up telling her how I felt about the whole situation with OM.

Trust me, Denver. You will be triggered again.

Expect it, accept it and above all else be prepared for it. I found it really helped to identify what my triggers were and to mentally rehearse how I would respond. I would usually gently cup my wife’s head and whisper in her ear ”I am about to explode and need to go for a walk before I say or do something I regret.” or I would simply remove myself from the situation and go surfing, running, ring a mate – whatever I had to do. You’ll likely slip up again and your instinct will be to go and rehash everything but have a plan in place for when that happens. If you slip up (and you will) get back on the wagon as soon as you can.

We obviously will never agree about what to call that R, so I don't know why I did this.

I do.

You did it because you were triggered, and it will happen again.

Hang in there Denver. Keep the prisoner’s thought process in mind. Escaping is not the hardest part, staying free is. The good thing is that it gets much, much easier with time as more great experiences are added to your memory banks and the resentment fades.

Best,

GH31.

[Harrier]

I think it's more than he was triggered. I mean he wants his W to see her "R" with the OM from his perspective. She isn't ready to see that and she may never be.

Denver, you just has to accept that. I mean I'm sure there are 100s of little things you don't agree on (I know this is a big thing) You have to treat it like that. I don't know if you can do much more than that. I do wonder why is it so important to be "right" about this?

Also, I would remember what 25 has said time and time again. Your W has to feel that you won't hold her time when you where S over her head for the rest of her life...waiting for that it to fall. You won't hold OM over her head.

I mean we would not accept our W's holding our past mistakes that led to the bomb over our heads forever. You have to find a way to move on ... or at the very least don't bring it up to her again and again. It's part of the trust factor with her.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

BUT, if she engages him in conversation or encourages that contact in any way, I will not accept it. That's just my line at this point. So far, W is good with that and has taken the necessary steps to make me feel comfortable. AND, she has done this stuff, such as contacting her boss about not taking gigs with the OM, without me pressuring her to do so. I merely told her how I felt and she did what she felt was right.

I do not think you are going to have to worry about that. I understand the fear, but she is saying AND more importantly showing you that this is highly unlikely. One of the top ten cool things my wife did, was when she confided in me what a loser/stalker the OM had been. : ) I think your wife sees it now.

I absolutely 100% agree with Harrier about not holding it over her head either.

Passive Agressives have this problem (generally speaking), they can say they forgive all the live long day, but they'll bring it up in an argument or a fight...

Don't be that guy.