Need help with detaching and hoping to reconcile.

[lillystillinlove]

Can someone help me figure a few things out? Since I was made aware of H's EA+ there has been a distinct effort to avoid all physical contact. In fact I am so aware of this that I've taken to "assisting" his avoidance. I noted the other night while washing dishes that he reached in to rinse something and brushed my arm, I instinctually recoiled and in an attempt to avoid further contact. I caught myself a second later and decided if he initiates physical contact in any way or for any reason I shouldn't get out of his way or apologize. So I moved back to what I was doing and he didn't move away, yes he continued a little skin to skin contact while rinsing a dish (pathetic I know but I'll take what I can get). Am I imagining things, could this be a baby step, or is this wishful thinking?

He's still moving out, he's still quick to anger, he is easily offended, and he still tries to provoke. Tonight when I returned home (I was GALing) the conversation, went like this, sort of:

H: Just to let you know, I'm text a number with the same area code as OW. (With attitude)
Me: Ok
H: I don't want you freaking out or anything. (With attitude)
Me: Ok
H: I found a couch online just like the one we have. (attitude greatly reduced)
Me: Really? That's cool

I felt like H was trying to provoke a fight. (I sometimes think he does and says things in an attempt to cause strife, keeping his position of righteous simmering anger the right one). Anyway, I wanted to respond differently than I did but this technique of remaining calm and collected seemed to work. The history here is that when I found out about her secret phone I looked through I looked through out phone records and discovered a few thing. I called the number and listened to the message exclusively for my H. I ranted, raged, cried, screamed, accused, and everything else. This pissed him off and he locked down his phone and laptop, still to this day. I stopped snooping months ago, I've told him so but he doesn't trust me. The above conversation says to me he believes I still snoop, I wanted to rebut his veiled accusation but held my tongue.

Tell me this passes, the his confused interaction with me will stop. Tell me that one day he will be the funny, sexy, sweet only to me, man I remember, tell me we will fix this... **SIGH**

Frustrated...

[lillystillinlove]

OH BOY, just typed up a whole post about today's crappy session in MC, lost it, now I'm so pissed off I can't see straight, I just can't do it again. Good night.

[lillystillinlove]

The MC session we had yesterday do not go well. I am unable to contain my anger. I'll admit I am petrified to lose him. It has nothing to do with anything more than the love I feel for him. I get frustrated with his inability to get past his anger so we can start working on repairing our marriage.

How to I manage myself in those sessions, what can I do? I'm doing good when when we are not in that situations, I can work the DR method pretty well but those sessions can be so provocative.

Yes, he's still moving out next week, he stopped seeing his IC (not exactly sure why) he's decline my request to go to Retrouvaille in Sept. (he feels cornered). If I make assumptions I'm told I shouldn't if I don't and ask questions so I understand he says I should already know the answer and that the question makes him feel attacked.

Do I stop asking? Do I live life as if he were not my husband and father to our son? Should I not have any expectations when it comes to our son and the time he spends away from home at his new place? Am I not allowed to ask that any new or any intimate relationships not be pursued because We and Our SON deserves our full effort on the figuring this out?

This is what I'm afraid will happen, he'll live the single life going out to bars, picking up chicks or resurrecting his relationship with the OW in some form. He'll start to neglect his obligations to our son and slowly remove himself from the picture of our family. Why do I say that? He was leaving his second wife when I met him, granted she had some heavy baggage (drug and alcohol addiction, violence toward him) but he was out trolling while married then decided he should give it one more chance, which obviously didn't work. I know I can't predict the future and I'm pretty sure he will not disappear from our son's life but with time on my hands my mind fills in the gaps, and there are a lot of gaps right now.

I feel lost at sea. No way to navigate, no land in sight and no one is looking for me.

Will some one please chime in...

[scaredsilly]

hi lilly, sorry you're feeling pain and frightened. it's so hard to come to grips with all this.

yes, you can't predict the future so you really can only live one day at a time. more GAL activities will help you with the "time on my hands" and thinking about your sitch so much.

you really can't ask him not to have other relationships now. he feels you've lost that right and it will only push him further away. you can't have any expectations of him.

as for his realationship with your S, yes it's heartbreaking but it's HIS relationship and you have to let him have it.

love and support your son but don't try to direct things between him and your H.

stay on the boards here and read what others are doing and have done. it's so encouraging and informative. read your books, all you can get your hands on, to make yourself the best person you can be.

know that things will get better but it takes time. use this time to become better aquainted with yourself.

[greatwhitenorth]

Hi Lilly

My responses below are pretty to the point so please don't take offense. I find addressing things directly is better than beating around the bush.

Keep posting. You will get advice, although you might not always like it. You will also get a great deal of empathy, but very little encouragement for wallowing, anger or self-defeating behavior.

It is counterintuitive, but there is little to no hope of reconciling with your H UNLESS YOU BACK OFF, GIVE HIM SPACE AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE AS IF IT IS OVER. This is a covert operation.

I am unable to contain my anger.

Try to make this one of your 180s, for your own health and that of your son if nothing else. Kids pick up on negative energy.

I get frustrated with his inability to get past his anger so we can start working on repairing our marriage.

This sounds like you are trying to control him. Are you a controlling person? What were his complaints?

Itemize the things he is angry about and 180 them if you can. It is a slow road so don't look for your H to notice the changes or for progress in your R anytime soon. Remember, 180s are largely FOR YOU. Your H has made it clear that he does not want to repair your marriage right now. You need to respect his wishes.

How to I manage myself in those sessions, what can I do? I'm doing good when when we are not in that situations, I can work the DR method pretty well but those sessions can be so provocative.

You are a grown up, you control your emotions. Choose to keep a lid on it. 180 the crap out of the provocation. Take an enormous emotional step back from it and just listen and validate when appropriate. If you can't say nothing nice, don't say nothing at all. What he says will probably be painful, but such is the road you've chosen in being here.

If I make assumptions I'm told I shouldn't if I don't and ask questions so I understand he says I should already know the answer and that the question makes him feel attacked.

THEN STOP! You shouldn't be asking him questions as it's perceived as prying. You shouldn't be mind reading either. Sit quietly, observe and the answers will come to you.

DBing is about doing what works. Asking questions isn't working. Making assumptions isn't working

FOCUS ON YOU.

Do I stop asking? Do I live life as if he were not my husband and father to our son?

Yes, STOP ASKING.
Yes, live your life AS IF you have accepted his choice and focus on being your best self and the best mom you can for your son.

Should I not have any expectations when it comes to our son and the time he spends away from home at his new place?

No, you should NOT HAVE ANY EXPECTATIONS. How your H spends his time away from you and your son is, quite frankly, none of your business. As for the time your son spends away from you, do you have any reason to believe that your H doesn't have his son's best interests at heart? Do you suspect any mistreatment? If not, leave it alone. There's an element of control here too. Trust your husband with his son unless you have a reason not to.

Am I not allowed to ask that any new or any intimate relationships not be pursued because We and Our SON deserves our full effort on the figuring this out?

This smacks of control too. Your H has opted out of your marriage at the moment. That might change down the road, but for now you have to accept it and give him all the freedom and space he wants. You cannot control him back to you.

There are a couple of discussions going on now with regard to OWs and children. Can't remember who exactly, but seek them out. Key thing is, though, that you need to stop trying to control things.

This is what I'm afraid will happen, he'll live the single life going out to bars, picking up chicks or resurrecting his relationship with the OW in some form. He'll start to neglect his obligations to our son and slowly remove himself from the picture of our family. [

This just might happen, in the short term at any rate. And if you keep pressuring him odds are that it will carry on for the long term and perhaps permanently. He has to WANT to come back to you, and as long as you are angry and controlling that will not happen. He will find relief the way he needs to. Shine a positive light on yourself.

Why do I say that? He was leaving his second wife when I met him, granted she had some heavy baggage (drug and alcohol addiction, violence toward him) but he was out trolling while married then decided he should give it one more chance, which obviously didn't work.

So why do you want to repeat the past? Take the time to work on yourself. Become a calm, confident, independent woman that any man would be a fool to leave. History has a way of repeating itself, and in all likelihood if he were to turn around today and land on your doorstep, the same thing would happen. FOCUS ON YOU.

Besides, it sounds like your H has a bucketload of issues of his own and that maybe he IS doing to you what he did to his first wife. What makes you think the outcome could be different?

My H's first marriage lasted two years, then he bolted. My marriage to H lasted 2.5 years, then he bolted. I didn't think he'd bolt on me because we had a really, really good life and he had everything he ever wanted. Thing is, H hadn't dealt with the issues that prompted him to bolt the first time, and I had no idea they existed. I have a much more clear idea of what's going on now, and it's very sad and very serious stuff that runs incredibly deep. Fortunately he's dealing with them now but the likelihood of reconciliation for us is slim to none. I don't know if he's still with OW and have never, ever asked him about her. As far as I'm concerned, as long as he's not with me it's none of my business. We don't have kids, but he did convince me to move to a rural community and property where we knew nobody and then just over a year later he walked out. It was kind of like "death by cop"...he set things up for me to kick him out because all he wanted was to do get away.

I know I can't predict the future and I'm pretty sure he will not disappear from our son's life but with time on my hands my mind fills in the gaps, and there are a lot of gaps right now.

Then you need to focus on getting a life. Fill those gaps with things you like to do, that make you a more fulfilled person, that make you happy and broaden your horizens. Sitting and stewing and stoking your anger do absolutely nothing for you.

I feel lost at sea. No way to navigate, no land in sight and no one is looking for me.

Will some one please chime in...

A lot of people here feel or felt just like you do. Early days bring panic, despair, acute pain and a dire feeling of isolation. IT DOES GET BETTER. You will stumble. You will fall. Then you will lick your wounds, get up, and keep moving forward. There is no other option, especially as far as your son is concerned. You MUST create a calm, loving, happy home for him as he will without a doubt absorb your energy. You don't want to imprint him with anxiety and a feeling of emotional abandonment.

[lillystillinlove]

Scaredsilly and GWN, Thanks so much for responding.

I'll see if I can combine my response to you guys.

I am GALing to the best of my ability, with a full time job and the majority of the responsibility for ensuring our son gets to all of his activities time for myself is limited.

I started running (recently stopped due to shin splints, will resume as soon as possible)

I've been taking a painting class which I love

Working on reconnecting more with an old friend.

Staying connected with other friends (not something I tend to do because of being a military brat, former member and spouse of a retired member, relationships end when someone moves away)

What I hope to be able to do soon is join a yoga class at a studio opening in my local area, I just need to fit it into my workday somehow. A girl that I know and would like to be better friends with is opening it.

I also hope to get my son into a new charter school that is opening and for me to get more involved in that.

I need to figure out how to be able to paint at home, we just don't have the space for me to set-up.

Now on to the meat of what GWN pointed out to me.

Controlling - so not my nature previous to this situation, it almost feels reflexive. I know I'm an adult need to suck it up. 180 at our MC sessions is going to be hard. The emotions that well up are hard to deal with, there are times when I do shut up and try to listen but I get so focused on containing myself I can't really hear or rather absorb whats going on. Maybe a xanex before would help, can you spare one? Probably sounds like I'm not going to try but I will. Outside of the sessions I have stopped asking questions (where are you going, when are you coming back, how long will you be gone, who's going to be there)I slip on occasion but that is usually in the evening dealing with dinner and our son's bed time, and that is only when he contacts me. I only call or text when it comes to logistics.
I see where what I'm doing in session can be seen by him as controlling.

Expectations - SIGH... they creep in, that is true, but the ones that are harder to put aside are the ones involving our son. He loves H so much and he is so young it hurts to see how much he's hurt by the absence he feels already. The rest I try not to dwell on, I sometimes do though. It's just frustrating.

The discussion on assumptions - Well, I guess your saying don't assume I know the answer but don't ask questions to find out the answer. I guess I've done that for so long that now, so I can move forward I need to have some concrete answers. In our MC sessions our Dr has tried to explain this to H but he is resistant to it, and a lot of the time I feel set up to fail. I just want to make actual decisions to the smaller issues so I don't screw it up again. H says use common sense but it's not that easy with him. Things like, do you want me to clean the house or do you want me to leave crap where you left it? do you want me to make extra food so we have left overs or make what we need for the meals so I'm not throwing a ton of food away? Do you want me to do stuff with the banking or not? H has a tendency to, shall I say, flip-flop. If I do what he says he wants it's wrong later. Did you ever see gaslight? It wasn't always like this, we actually worked really well together for a long time. Classic example in our live that translates to many others it's hard to know the right answer:

Me: Honey will you take the basket of clean clothes up stares for me?
H: What, you can take them up yourself? SIGH, I'll do it later.

Later generally doesn't happen. But if I go to take it up he say, I said I would take it up!

Next time the basket needs to go up. As I'm walking up the stairs with the basket:

H: Why don't you just ask me to take it up for you?
Me: defeated sigh.

That scenario can be seen in subtle way in other areas of our life. For the obvious, easy things I've made changes and this is no longer an issue but the subtle one are probably part of what got us to this place. They are harder for me to realize.

Trying to stop all the expectations and assumptions as we speak, better get the hang of it soon, he moves out in 5 days.

I think the hardest part of him moving out is that he wants our son to be as unaware of it as possible. So not much is really changing except for where he actually sleeps.

GWN I agree with you, he does have a lot to work through, probably more than he even knows. Not only do I get frustrated but I also have a lot of sadness when it comes to seeing him hurting so much. I caused a lot of pain that he didn't deserve, but was so blind or numb to anything outside of myself for so many years I couldn't function. Barely leaving the house or interacting with people. The dynamic is so complex it's hard to know what came first, were we having major problems before all of that, did those problems in part lead to my depression? Did or major problems start with my depression? I don't know, and I don't know that I care. I just hope we can find our way back to one another and change how we interact so nothing like this ever happens again.

Thank you both again for your wisdom and insight. I think I need to work on consistency. being able to do all these things is the stressful situations too.

It may not seem like it from all those previous post but I've made a lot of progress over the past 6 months personally. I've definitely changed and I'm closer to that girl he fell in love with and that I miss. A lot of my posting so far is venting. So thanks for listening and advising too.

[lillystillinlove]

GWN, Forgot to say I'll look for those post about kids and OW. I don't know that she is a factor right now but it certainly won't hurt to be educated.

[lillystillinlove]

GWN,

You asked what his complaints are, here is what I have been able to figure out:

Prior to the BOMB

1. Lack of emotional and physical intimacy
2. Lack of motivation
3. My weight (not blatant)
4. Self isolation

180

1,2,&4. Received help for my severe depression it various ways. Anti depressants, hormone adjustment, supplements and vitamins to correct vitamin and mineral deficiencies.

3. Not on purpose but months of not being able to eat caused me to lose 35lbs. I've lost an additional 10 on purpose and have kept it off for at least 3 months now.

Since the Bomb

1. All the classic DR no-nos encompassed by this one word "pushing" to reconcile
2. Why did it have to come to this for you to make all those changes

180

1. Trying, admittedly not very well yet at time, to put into practice DR/DB techniques.
2. Not really sure how to 180 a 180.

Outside of the problems with MC sessions I've started getting better with detaching. I don't call or text to try and connect, If my son and I are out and I take a picture of him I think H will like I send it to him without expectations. I don't expect us to join us as a family, I don't expect him to as me to go with him and our son if they are doing something. I don't expect him to do anything he is not willing to, I bring up trying to regain intimacy anymore (even in session), we don't discuss our relationship outside of our MC sessions. I don't ask him to do anything to assist with our sons schedule unless absolutely necessary. If something occurs outside of session that I react poorly to I try to remove myself from the situations until I can respond somewhat rationally. I am not great at responding face to face so sometimes it's through email, or I wait until our MC sessions.

I've gotten better when it comes to reacting to situations where he's angry and looking for a fight. I've been able to defuse most of those lately with the detached approach, but they are not to often.

I think my goals should be:

1. Get better at detaching or just be able to detach in our MC sessions
2. Detach more in our daily life.
3. Have H agree to attend Retrouvaille in January 2013.
4. Start running again
5. Try Yoga
6. Expand my friendships and social life

[lillystillinlove]

I'm also thinking about a nose ring and a couple tattoos.

[lillystillinlove]

How do we fall into routine so easily, it's like a well rehearsed play. We went to a birthday party for a friend of mine's husband. The only person we knew was my friend. It seemed weird. It seemed like when we met new people before all this crap. Reminiscing, telling stories of our past/history. Conversation was outwardly easy. My friend knows a little of our situation and mentioned it was nice of him to come, I almost went into update mode but caught myself, pulled back and finally said, yes it was nice of him to come.

The whole evening was nice but superficial, comfortable and frustrating. I miss what was. We had a conversation on the drive home around a topic that is and has always been a point of contention for us. It was sparked by the tragedy in Colorado. I think he was trying to push buttons a little. My opinion is that I handled it well but I can't tell anymore.

4 days until H move out...