In home separation? Off / On? Still WAW? Dunno

[MrBond]

I like it with the exception of the dancing part. Maybe she can attend another class when the OM is not there. Have you ever figured out what it is about the OM that she's attracted to? I'm sure she finds the dancing liberating for her.

[breakdownbill]

Hi Mr Bond

Yeah I haven't got a problem with her dancing with me or other people, just him. To change class she would have to drop back a few levels and be separated from her other friends there as well. She is very good at the ballroom, latin dancing and I know she loves dancing, it's like a form of expression.

The OM? She hasn't talked to me much about him, in fact very little and that was only the 1st couple of days post that revelation when I was asking her lots of questions.

She was just really vague and I remember her saying he wasn't a sleaze (I'm not either) and he treated me good.

I know he's got kids and is divorced and is in his mid to late 40's.

I also know that she has been discussing all our issues with him since last summer and that he got her a couple of dancing dvd's at Christmas.

There is similarities actually when I think about it from how me & my W got together. We met at work and were friends at first and got closer over a few months.

Whereas they met at dancing, became dance partners, then friends, then took it further than they should have.

[MrBond]

Then you should let her keep up the dancing but change partners if possible. Of course, ideally you should be doing this with her. I forgot in your sitch how far have they progressed their R? Talking to each other is natural especially if you have to be close to the other person to dance the way they do. This would be true for any partner she has.

[breakdownbill]

I tried that, but she wouldn't change partners and kept saying that people would think it was strange that they didn't dance together, plus the teacher is really good friends with the OM outside of the dancing, so it would be awkward to explain for her.

I did start a dancing class with my w in Sept, but my w stopped coming with me in the 2nd term and I kept it up on my own up until recently. So she could dance with me, she doesn't want to dance at a basic level though (or with me).

You see this is the big question, because I have no idea what is going on between them. I mean, she may have been telling me the truth when she said they just dance together now and don't have any contact outside of dancing. (i don't really buy that).

They could be having a full on affair and are very discreet and are waiting for me to move out.

To be honest I haven't got a clue what is going on, but I know while they are still in contact it's not over.

[MrBond]

"she wouldn't change partners and kept saying that people would think it was strange that they didn't dance together, plus the teacher is really good friends with the OM outside of the dancing, so it would be awkward to explain for her."

All these are just lame excuses. So bottomline is that she doesn't want to change even though it makes you extremely uncomfortable. I would suggest telling her that she can find another dance partner in the same level because as her H you should be the first to be comfortable with it. If not, then you push forward with letting her go.

[breakdownbill]

Hi Mr Bond

I agree they are lame excuses which were followed with, 'I don't care what you think he's my dancing partner and i'm dancing with him'.

This was a few months ago mind, but to be honest i'm just trying to sort out my finances and come up with a plan.

I may have to wait until the begining of Sept before I can back up any ultimatum.

Bill

[chatterbug]

Sounds like your not prepared yet Bill.

As it sounds like your still in this mode.

Basing all your reactions around her actions.

Where as you need to be in this mode.

State and live your boundaries.

Just remember that you and the children stay in the house.

Long drawn out talks have not worked for you in the past.


Your whole speech is of a needy man who has no plan.


It should be short.

You should prepare ahead of time before giving it. Ideally the day before the dancing.

Sort of along the lines of....

"I will no longer tolerate be involved in an open marriage"

or

"Wife. I have thought it over. This marriage no longer works for me. I will only be in a honest marriage with one man and one woman who respect each other."

Then you go quiet and leave. Come back a few hours later.

Next day if she goes dancing.

When she comes home. You serve her the papers.

"I have decided the children and I will remain in the home. I will remain in my bed. Nothing is to leave this house until decided upon by the courts."

That is how you get out of limbo.

She knows your boundary. She knows the outcome of her choice to test or disregard the boundary. She also knows the outcome if she respects the boundary.

This gives her the chance to work back into the marriage.

You need to know what you want on this as well.

No contact. No more dancing there. Counseling. etc..

[breakdownbill]

Hi Chatterbug

I seen your post late last night and needed to go back through this thread to appreciate what you were saying.

Firstly, you are right I'm not ready, well not prepared for the outcomes at least anyway.

I re-read what I posted...

I was going to bring up an R talk and say something like this...

W I've been thinking about what you said, that we didn't get any closer on holiday & I think that we have both put up a wall that stops us from making any progress in either working things out or going our separate ways.

I've tried to give you space & had time to think what would help our situation.

For me, I can't continue in any relationship with you whilst you are still in contact with the OM. It doesn't matter to me if you say nothing is going on anymore, because it does 2 things for me.

firstly it prevents me from even trying to re-gain any trust for you, and secondly it shows that you have no respect for me as your H.

If we were to try & work through our issues I would need you to agree to NC with the OM (give up that dance class) and to go to MC.

I will understand if you don't want to do these things, but please understand that I am no longer willing to stay in this M the way things are and if you continue to see the OM I will be filing soon /seeking legal advice / Moving out.

Yeah it's too much, I agree it needs to be more like what you posted - to the point and not a statement based on conditions.

I've been a bit caught up in what I want these past few days.

I'm about to start my teacher training in Sept - which is basically 2 yrs worth of work crammed into 38 weeks.

What i'm trying to say is that, i'm gonna be struggling to spend time with my kids, let alone be emotionally available on any meaningful level.

Let's say I throw it out to my W and she does want to work on things, but I can't give enough time to give it a real go.

Timing shouldn't get in the way of doing what you want to do, but it's playing on my mind.

Maybe i'm looking into stuff a bit too much, but I want to speak to someone about how legal separation and my options before I have that conversation.

I accept that I don't want to be in this situation anymore, and that realisation of knowing I don't have to be, has led me to ask more questions of myself.

I really appreciate your advice and I'm getting there, I just need to figure out my plans for either outcome, before I'm ready to play my hand.

Bill

[YankeeCandle]

Hi Bill,

I agree with Chatterbug when she(?) says: Your reactions are based on your w's actions. You guys are in a cycle that needs breaking, and maybe that's what you are identifying and your answer is to bring out the big guns (ie ultimatum)...but maybe the cycle isn't as massive as you imagine it to be.

And, as I look at your perspective, I see this quite clearly:
"....I have no idea what is going on between them."

That's it - you have no idea what is going on between them. Isn't this mind reading? Don't worry, I do this all the time too and I'm working on it. But try not to let your imagination run away with you. Reel your imagination in.

However, your W's attitude of her not changing a thing (and then actually not changing a thing) is pretty harsh.

So, there's a standoff.

Before giving the ultimatum, maybe you could try really encouraging her towards more and more dancing. It's an idea, and maybe see what happens. Have you resisted her going- even just pulling a face? OR, do you appreciate her dancing? Even though you don't dance anymore, and you don't attend the classes, do you think she is looking for appreciation in what she does? Do you guys talk at length about her classes when she gets back? Do you get excited for her when she gets a move maybe she struggled with? Do you know her struggles/goals in the dance class at all?

If it's what she loves, then it would be important to encourage that love by loving what she loves. That is - as MWD says - is real giving. You don't have to understand it all that much, just love what she loves.

With dancing, it's all about how much the body can do, how to perform. The thrill tends to be in the ability of the body to do certain things.

About the OM, not sure how to 'make her do' anything. It won't work in the long run even if she does agree. She has to do it herself. So, I think your option is to throw as much love at her as you can, and let her decide to change partners.

[chatterbug]

Bill I think you answered your own question.

What is more important right now.

Bill is more important than the marriage.

And Bill that is the right answer.

The dance with your wife vs 38 weeks of very important training.

IMHO. Training should win out.

Throw yourself into it. Any extra time you have. Should be to get a little exercise in and time with your children.

This will remind yourself that you should not lose yourself in your marriage.

This is really a great time to drop the rope. Step back from the drama. Truly work on yourself. D and S will watch this and see that you are working hard at getting ahead in life and taking time to be with them. At the same time prepare for the outcome of the D. Learn and do the work for what is needed. This is extremely important.

If your wife comes at you with relationship talks to drag you back in.

Tell her.

"I am not interested in a R talk at this time."

Keep doing that over and over until her actions equal wanting to work on the marriage.

Ie. She stops dancing at that place where OM is.

Let her figure out what is disrespectful to the marriage and correct it.

Since it is her actions.


Or if she comes at you with D.

You have your paperwork lined up. You know what is going to happen.

So you say.

"I have prepared for this." She will say how she thinks its going to happen. Then you tell her how it will happen. And let her lead on it.


Or 38 weeks of limbo for her while your working away at getting ahead.



You have done enough talking. Showed your emotions. What has it gotten you?

Exactly.

So concentrate on yourself and your schooling and your children.