Marriage = busted. Help me bust my divorce too!!

[mamabird]

Hi everyone,
I posted this to the newcomers forum but I'm not getting much traction there. I think it might be appropriate to post here too. I need help!!!

Here is my story - working backwards I guess:
About 6 weeks ago, my husband discovered that I was having an OA (of sorts). I say "of sorts" because the relationship was a little hard to define. I knew the person but the relationship (and transgression) was entirely over text, so it wasn't really online in the traditional sense. I guess you could call it a "TA". It was very short lived and I wasn't even interested in him or interested in sleeping with him. It was really just an avenue to make myself feel better since my husband consistently rejected and emotionally/verbally abused me. Needless to say, I said my goodbyes and ceased contact with the OP THAT DAY.

My H asked me to move out of the house, which I did in order to appease him. I am currently staying at my parents' house, but we basically alternate time in our home with our two boys. He took off his ring, he defriended me on Facebook, he emailed my friends, my sister and the "OM" and gave them all holy hell. He has taken control of our finances to the extent he can (basically not putting money into our joint account, but I still can have cash if I ask for it and use credit cards). He is threatening/planning to date other people.

He spoke to our mutual friends and gave them his version of the story, which makes him look like God's gift to husbands and makes me look like an ungrateful lowlife who has no moral character whatsoever (he left out the emotional abuse and withholding love part I guess), and has now irreparably damaged some of those relationships for me.

H has moved from anger to depression back to anger again. We can't have a civil conversation at this point. He gets angry and starts demeaning me, at which point I hang up or walk away or otherwise discontinue the conversation. He has emailed father with me on copy and declaring that there is only one option for him, which is for us to get a D. He says that although he has given it a lot of thought, any person who would behave in "that way" is not who he wants to have for a wife. I find this a very odd means of communication and I haven't responded to any of it.

Prior to this "bomb" event, things had been rather ugly anyway. H had been idly threatening divorce for about a year (I never took it seriously). He had been seriously angry, rejecting and demeaning and I felt I couldn't talk to him. We have had some trust issues in our past (I lied to H about a friendship with an ex-coworker that I was a little infatuated with, but nothing happened and coworker wasn't even aware). We went to counseling about 2 years ago, which did help and things were going well for about a year. H also has deep seated, unresolved abandonment issues related to his mother which I think have been in play for a while, and now he is projecting that anger onto me.

We have had other stresses - I recently quit my job, and we bought a house a year ago, which we then renovated and moved into. We are leveraged to the hilt and had to borrow money from our parents to get in.

I have taken Michele's advice to heart as much as I can. I did apologize sincerely and profoundly, both over email and telephone, at the beginning. But now I have ceased all schmoopy emails and such, although since I am sharing the house with him, I am still doing the family's laundry and grocery shopping, and I clean up when I am here. I am still maintaining a "positive friendly attitude" and am thanking him for doing things (such as scheduling the plumber and leaving the porch light on for me) to demonstrate that I've changed and to remove the negative generalization. But otherwise, I pretty much leave him alone and do my own thing. He won't talk to me or even look at me anyway. I had a great weekend with my sons last weekend and as soon as he realized that I was having fun without him he went from "kind-of-being-sort-of-a-little-bit-nice" to Grade A jerk.

He has also agreed to counseling. We found someone who I think will be great. She handled our situation (he wants D, I want R) with aplomb. We are all in agreement we will work towards healing in order to be better co-parents. A step in the right direction.

At first I thought I could go right to LRT but since we are in therapy together I am not sure. He's already given me a clue to a 180 that I could do - he said, "I've been looking for your approval through our whole marriage". He really wavers between jerk and nice and I'm just trying to keep that smile on my face no matter what.

Thanks for listening and for any advice that you have. xoxo

[MrBond]

Okay, so you had the affairs (doesn't matter if their via text, online, etc. - these are emotional affairs) to seek validation and worth. Is that correct?

And now your H hasn't seen any fault on his part and has amplified his bad behavior.

Has this been discussed with your current counselor? This is one thing that should be hammered out. I would actually leave him totally alone and when he starts acting like a jerk to you, tell him to stop and that his being a jerk and not being a proper H was one of the reason that you did what you did and that while you've apologized and are remorseful, it doesn't give him an excuse to continue to be a jerk and treat you as less of a person.

While you were definitely wrong to interact with someone else, he needs to be called out on his bad behavior as well.

[mamabird]

Mr Bond,
Well, I'd say your assessment is pretty much correct. I was definitely seeking validation and worth from the second person. The first time was more complicated. Hit me like a ton of bricks and I had a very hard time moving away from that man. It didn't really have time to develop into a two-way emotional affair, more like a fantasy on my part. Not that it matters much now.

True that H has not really admitted fault. He sort of did, in one of those weird emails to my dad but has not to me nor in front of a counselor. And forget about an apology. We went to MC 2 times - to 2 different people (one great, one not so good), so that process has only just started.

Also now he is backing off MC, even though 2 days ago he agreed to go so we could heal. Says he'll go one more time because "his time is valuable" and "it's more for me to feel better anyway." He is so afraid to even crack the door a little bit. I am sure he is scared that he will have to admit fault or that once the process starts, he won't be strong enough to walk away from the M.

If we do continue, the therapist says we have to first concentrate on healing trust and then we can get to his behavior. She said he was so totally angry and hurt right now that he was not in a position to make any sort of decisions. I don't feel that this is too fair to me but it is what it is. I think my H is a real chicken honestly, and although I have this idealized image of putting our family back together, I'm not sure he has what it takes to do the work.

I usually ignore his jerky comments (and I would use a much stronger word if I could) but I know I need to stand up to him more because me not standing up to him was how I ended up in this mess in the first place. I just don't want to fuel the fire so to speak, but his behavior makes me nauseous and I'm glad I got to see this side of him. It certainly is not pretty and I have to wonder when he does this if I wouldn't be better off with someone more mature. My mother's 81 year old boyfriend said to me, "Why would you want to be with someone so weak?" and he had a pretty good point.

Also, in another really awful turn of events, we found out today were turned down for a HELOC, which was supposed to improve our financial position regarding this house (see above post). It appraised for less than what we bought it for. Plus, since I am not working right now, it does not make for snappy timing as far as a D is concerned. My only hope is that he realizes this and it buys us some time.

As I read this back, I'm wondering why I'm bothering. But I know he has good in him somewhere, and I know we want the same thing. It's just a matter of finding the path back and both of us wanting to stay on it...

[MrBond]

Okay, my guess is that he hasn't healed from the first time you had an A. That and the other A had him fighting back to regain his footing. Of course he did it the wrong way, but it was the only way he understood.

In terms of the C. I would tell him that you understand that he's uncomfortable with talking about how he feels and that it is not for you and not just for him, but for the two of you to heal the "right" way. If he's not open to it, then tell him you understand and leave it at that.

Your H suffers from extremely low self-esteem. Which is why he tries to bully you. It's his way of establishing control. Rather than taking his bad attitude all the time, I suggest you do this.

When he does something good, compliment him. Even if it's a small thing like, I appreciate the way you washed my car. It looks great. Or say something nice about how hard he works, etc.

On those times when he starts to be an @$$ (and you can pretty much tell when it's going to start). Tell him that you have to start dinner or that while you did wrong, you still deserve to be talked to like a person. Then step away.

Try that on a consistent basis and see what happens.

[professorjay]

I am still new here, but my wife had an A 6 years ago. I was all over the map like your h, angry, then hurt, then desperate. When I would get really upset and take it out on her (not physically, just angry), she would tell me she knew that what she had done hurt me and she was so sorry, but that I was really hurting her. The fact that she was still remorseful, even when she was telling me how I was hurting her, helped me to see my own stuff better.

It took awhile for me to know whether I even wanted to stay with her, but her consistent actions of remorse and being trustworthy helped us recover. I just hope we can make it through our current situation.

[mamabird]

Thanks Bond. You are spot on. Although, if my H ever washed my car for me I think I'd die!

Never really realized that he has low self-esteem although it makes sense now that I am looking at the R from a more distanced perspective. It all adds up as I look at his behavior both in the marriage and over the last 6 weeks. Everything he is doing now is an extreme version of his tactics in the marriage: avoidance/running away, blaming, shaming, not taking accountability.

I have been trying to compliment him whenever possible. I will keep trying. I'm keeping a spreadsheet now to track our interactions to see if they are improving over time. In the last few days they have been. Also, you are right, I need to actually stand up to him vs. ignoring or sweeping his nastiness under the rug. We don't talk that much but I will give it a try.

I will get back on here after Tuesday when we have our next MC session. H is in Hawaii now so hopefully that's helping him relax and get a more mature perspective on all that has gone on.

[mamabird]

Just a small update - I guess the Hawaii trip did help. When I asked him this morning how his trip was he ignored me twice and then when I asked again later, he said he didn't feel like talking to me about it.

I took Mr Bond's advice and said, "Well, if you want things to go well, you need to show me a little more respect than that." To which H replied, "I don't want things to go well. You broke faith with me horribly two times. This is what you get." (note that he had been saying he just wanted a peaceful divorce). At which point, I said goodbye and walked out of the house.

Shockingly, I received an email from him a few hours later apologizing for him being a bad husband and for all the hurt and pain he had caused me. He said he could see the hurt and pain on my face in therapy and it made him realize he needed to own his behavior in the M.

I haven't replied yet. Want to make him squirm a little bit. When I do reply it will be short, genuine and supportive. I've already learned to keep my distance, and I know this is no guarantee of anything.

[MrBond]

"I don't want things to go well. You broke faith with me horribly two times."

Bingo! This is the sticking point. You cheated on him twice. It doesn't matter if it was just text and you shouldn't say it was just an OA. To him it was as if you had sex with the guy every day for a year. Cheating is cheating.

I get that he wasn't seeing your needs, but you don't solve a bad problem with an even worse one.

"Want to make him squirm a little bit. "

This shows that you've become no better than him. In the end, you want to save this PERIOD.

Since he apologized, which sounds like a really big deal for him, this is what I suggest. I suggest you do a 180 and tell him that you appreciate him for owning up to his portion of the breakdown. Apologize again for your indescretion and give him a big hug. Tell him that you are scared of being hurt again and of hurting him again. Which is why you want to go to MC to stop the cycle of pain, anger and hurt and come out with a better, happier and stronger M. Tell him that you have faith in him and that he's stronger than even he believes and that things can work out. But the first step has to be his.

Put the small initiative onto him and see what happens.

[Starsky309]

Since he apologized, which sounds like a really big deal for him, this is what I suggest. I suggest you do a 180 and tell him that you appreciate him for owning up to his portion of the breakdown. Apologize again for your indescretion and give him a big hug. Tell him that you are scared of being hurt again and of hurting him again. Which is why you want to go to MC to stop the cycle of pain, anger and hurt and come out with a better, happier and stronger M. Tell him that you have faith in him and that he's stronger than even he believes and that things can work out. But the first step has to be his.

Put the small initiative onto him and see what happens.

This is really good advice from Bond. ^^^


Starsky

[mamabird]

Ok Bond, I will try that. He may not let me give him the hug so I won't push it. We have MC today so that would be a good opportunity to tell him all of this. But he has clearly stated that he wants a D so I am a little hesitant about saying I want a better, happier and stronger M. I believe he apologized because it was the right thing to do and probably relieves him of some of the guilt surrounding his behavior.

I'm a little confused trying to find the balance between detachment and letting him come back vs. encouraging him to come back as you normally would in an A situation. The detachment and standing up for myself has seemed to work somewhat, and since he turned the tables on me and walked way from ME it's a bit confusing. Can you help me on that one?

Yes, you are right, it is definitely a cycle of hurt, anger and pain and it needs to stop whatever the outcome is. I just don't want to overwhelm him at this point.