Continual Struggle

[Breakdown]

Thank you so much Cat...I really appreciate your input and you make some really good points.

Something that happens when we hear that, is that we begin to look at every action as either controlling or not.

While that is good in some respects, there is the other side, and we begin to not set or enforce our own personal boundaries in order to not be seen as controlling.

The problem that this presents is that we can begin to view ourselves as doormats. It can erode our self-esteem further.

I see you doing that and I see your frustration with knowing what to do or not to do growing.

I have really just started looking at things I'm doing that could be considered controlling (and it seems like everything!). Mach made a point to me the other day that really helped me with this. But I can see where you are going with this and it's a pitfall I need to be aware of.

With that said, I do think I've been walking on eggshells for most of the last year. I think I've really only set one boundary....let me know what's going on in the evenings so I can plan accordingly. If plans change, please let me know. My wife sees that as controlling (of course!) so she has blown thru that boundary again and again.

You guys did RV, which is wonderful when two people actually want to work on the relationship, but I don’t know that it works if you both aren’t committed to it, and it doesn’t seem to me that your W is committed to it at all. (Just say so if I’m wrong).

I tend to agree. Even though they ask you when you register "Are you committed to working on your marriage?" and she said yes, I think she has just gone along with it so that she doesn't rock the boat. She participated, and continues to do so, but I question whether she takes it seriously. For example, we had to answer a question like "Why do you want to go on living" and I wrote a long time about improving myself, being a better father, a better husband, growing in my faith, etc etc. She wrote "I still want to travel to x and y." We actually got into an argument about it during our sharing period because she is not that shallow. I was simply shocked at what she wrote...I think she was too afraid, or simply unwilling to share her true thoughts.

I have chalked up the experience to an error on my part because I was expecting something different. But on the other hand, is it wrong to expect honesty and effort when that is what we're there for?

Are the things you are doing things that you want to do? Things that make you happy?

If you are spending all of your free time away from home, I could see her complaint as valid. If it’s one evening a week, and you spend the other six with her, then I see no reason why you should stop what you are doing.

I have really been struggling with GAL honestly. I have been working out this year, but in the last 3 months, I've been doing insanity at home rather than going somewhere. My hobbies have always been things in and around the home, so I'm always here. I have been playing golf on Weds and then usually going to dinner after, and I've been trying to get together with either my brother or friends once per week as well, but otherwise, I'm just here. And since I work from home, that's about 95% of the time.

I don't necessarily think being here is a problem....we have 5 kids and they are all active. It's a chore just getting them to and from stuff and making dinner. But, I totally believe she takes me for granted. She expects me to pick up the slack when she decides to grab a couple of beers with someone (without even telling me). A few times I just decided to do my own thing regardless of what she did, but the kids ended up getting the shaft and I felt so guilty no one made them dinner. They're old enough to make themselves something if they have to, but I still felt guilty.

Another woman has called your W a whore based on her R with this woman’s H. Do you feel that way?

Because if you do, it permeates into your interactions with your W.

No, absolutely not....that's not the woman I married, nor the mother of my children. But, with that said, there is a deep seeded fear in me that maybe I don't truly know my wife. When I found out about the sexting thing, it destroyed me. I was already insecure...and then my worst fears became reality. Add to that the fact that over the last year, she has not really acted like herself. She has chosen to hang out and drink with people she works with rather than be around her family. She has explained that it's me she had chosen to avoid, not the kids, but the result is still the same. So yeah, I guess I still have a strong fear that I don't know her. What I'm trying to do now is trust that she is who I've known all these years, though confused and frustrated, and not let her behavior control mine.

How will you handle it if you reconcile and your W continues the R with this man?

I think it depends on the form it takes. If it's all business, I think I can live with it. If it's having 3 beers with him after work and then lying about it, I can't do that.

What are your W’s LL?

Words of affirmation. I actually talked to her about this a few weeks back. I am really ashamed of my behavior as I look at my past. Instead of feeding her her LL, I let my insecurity constantly tear her down. Not only did I not feed her love bank, I was constantly making withdrawals.

I've made progress in addressing my insecurity and not letting it control me, and I've made a conscious effort to voice my thoughts. For example, there have always been times I thought my wife looked great, but I just thought it. Now, I try to voice it when it pops in my head.

Unfortunately, after years of me being one way, she doesn't trust that I really mean anything I say nice. She thinks it's a ploy to keep her. I've struggled with this because saying what I feel is a change I want to make for me, and I know it's a change she wants as well, but it's definitely viewed as pursuing and she doesn't trust it.

What do you want your M to look like in the future in comparison to what it looked like in the past?

I want a partnership full of laughter and trust. I can honestly say, she wants the same thing. She has just given up thinking it can happen.

What are your LL?

My LL is quality time. I think that's always been my LL, but early in our marriage, I let other things get in the way. I wouldn't allow myself to have that.

Do you want to keep having a R with someone who is having an R with someone else?

No, certainly not. But I want to make sure my insecurities and controlling behaviors aren't getting in the way here.

Right now, you guys could go on like this indefinitely. Her doing her thing, you being there when she wants you there and being miserable when she doesn’t want you there.

Yeah, I think if I didn't say anything about anything, she'd just putt along and neither of us would truly be happy. She'd rather pretend it's ok and get her needs fufilled elsewhere than actually try to make our marriage fufilling to each other.

I don’t get the feeling that you really understand why you are trying to change them other than to make your W happy.

The changes have to be for you. Things that you don’t like about yourself or they are not going to stick and they aren’t going to work to make either of you happy.

I don't totally agree with that. I started thinking a little different about 2 years ago, started thinking about how I wanted to be, and why I felt certain ways. My changes were in their infancy but were slowly starting to develop. Unfortunately, my insecurity wasn't the first thing I addressed and that pushed my W to drop the bomb 6 months later. That accelerated my changes, but I still think they are for me.

I used to be unhappy and mad all the time. Even when I wasn't, it was simmering below the surface. I never really took a hard look at it. My priorities were work and success (defined as making more money). Sure, I wanted certain things for my kids and certain values for them, but it was like I was looking thru a pinhole instead of seeing the whole picture.

I've stripped away that anger, forgiven my parents for their mistakes, forgiven myself for mine, forgiven my wife for hers, and tried to take a view of "how do I want things...assuming a clean slate" and work towards that. I've torn down most of my internal walls and let my family in. My definition of success has changed to the quality of my relationships, including my relationship with God. I'm becoming who I want to be, not existing as the broken person my parents created.

And my W thinks it's great. She is almost brought to tears when she talks about how great my relationships are with the kids now. She had a deep need for me to be a spiritual leader for our family that I didn't know about (though I probably wouldn't have done it years ago even if I did honestly), and I am meeting that now. She likes that I've changed from being judgmental to understanding (mostly...still working on it). She says, "you'll be great for your next wife" and then is angry that it wasn't that way for her. She says that I don't really want her, it's just comfortable, or easier than finding someone new. That breaks my heart, because as we all know, this isn't easy!

So go back to your list that you started with Mach and really look at that stuff.

Work with him and others to figure out who you are and what you want.

And then see where you are…

Yep, I am going to keep working it. I have told my wife, hey, this is a livelong process that I feel I've just started. I've changed completely, and I'm going to continue to change, to become who I want to be. I've committed to retrov even if she doesn't want to go....it helps me grow as a person. And I'm not giving up on her....even if she goes thru with the D.