TIME for a change

[Brit45]

Regardless of whether or not you file on the 27th your sitch will be the same on the 27th as it is on the 26th or the 28th.

[oldtimer]

Change the password and get the F out of W's life. She has had numerous opportunities to choose to interact with you and has chosen NOT to. Leave her alone.

[oldtimer]

(1) How exactly have you been played? You cheated on W prior to M, you were abusive, she left you and has been very clear about not wanting to reconcile.

(2) You are in no way in a good place to date.

(3) You wrote: "I overextended myself financially in doing this based on my "nice guy" m.o. and harbored resentment as a result when I wasn't treated the way I wanted in return. This was a catalyst for my drinking and handful of verbally abusive epsisodes that ultimately pushed her into the arms of OM and put the nail in the coffin of our M.

I think I finally "get it" now. I see why I behaved the way I did, and I know it will not happen again in the future."

Uh, no. Your behavior hasn't changed. How you describe things hasn't changed. Your lack of ownership hasn't changed. Your continuing to minimize your abuse hasn't changed. Alcoholics and abusers can ALWAYS point to a triggering incident. So what.

"I haven't seen her or my stepkids since Valentines day, so there's really not much of way for her to see any of my changes. The thing I still don't get is the discipline to abide by the DB principles because I keep screwing up. "

Precisely. There has been no real change on your part. PLEASE do not start dating.

[Brit45]

well OT said it better than I did. I kept feeling like I'd be mean if I actually said it...but yes. I agree with the above.

[Broken74]

Thanks oldtimer and Brit,

I'm glad you guys came back to feedback on my thread. As much as I appreciate it I agree with some points but not all.

Oldtimer,

I am owning my abuse and am not minimizing it. That is the reason I am here. There is nothing I can do about that now, what's done is done, so I see no point in speaking verbosely about it now. I've been in many relationships and was never abusive until this one. Why do I think this happened? Because I never had the stress (financial and otherwise) of overextending myself to support a bankrupt wife and three children. I assure you I will never say anything remotely abusive to anyone I care about again, and I have never laid a hand on anyone.

I'll see both your points that I am not ready to date. Given my feelings I guess the earliest I will able to do that in good conscious will be after the divorce is final if that happens. Reason being on the off chance my wife has a change of heart I would still consider entertaining it.

With all due respect no one on an internet message board can assess changes in me. I am sober and have learned many things about myself over the last 11 months. The people who know me have mentioned my changes. I am much calmer and less angry person than when all this started.

Let me give you an example of how I was played... Looking back, the last contribution my W made to the household was August 1st, going toward already acquired debts. In early August she put a laptop on my credit "for school" that utlimately she used for adulterous purposes. She started talking to OM on 8/27 yet ran up about $2000 on my credit after that for personal items, while enjoying her banter with the OM while we slept in the same bed. When she scheduled her first weekend outing with the OM she coerced me out of our marital home under the guise of "time to let us work on things". Do either of you think there is anything remotely right about this behavior? She flat out stole from me, and ended up taking every marital possession of value and left ME over $40,000 in debt as a result while she walked away debt free. This is AFTER I pulled her out of bankruptcy. If the same happened to you and you are ok with it and don't think you were played I would have to think you had lost your mind. I FORGIVE HER FOR THIS, but to explain my position/thought process I have to provide such detail...

Last point re to oldtimer, yes I was unfaithful to my W when were dating. That was all supposedly forgiven when I asked her hand in marriage. Obviously that was not the case. I consider us "even" now on that front.

Change the password and get the F out of W's life. She has had numerous opportunities to choose to interact with you and has chosen NOT to. Leave her alone.

You're right on that one oldtimer, that is the bottom line. She obviously wants nothing to do with me right now. My SS does and I am looking forward to spending time with him next week, I'm not going to mention W in any way it's just going to be he and I and baseball.

Brit I know men and women operate differently on many planes. When I give her the divorce papers on the 27th I will again make it known that I want try and reconcile but that choice is up to her. If she signs and files the petition, that is the end of the road for me. I will make no further attempts with her and that will be the end of it.

Everything points in this direction and I have effectively given up, save a miracle the divorce train is fast approaching I'm afraid.

Thanks again for you guys feedback and good luck in your respective sitch's!

[Broken74]

ADDENUM: When I say I'm not going to mention W in any way, I mean I'm not going to talk to SS about anything related to her at all. I am going to share w/ her the texts he sent me wanting to hang out to her to get her approval however, even though he is 17 years old.

[Denver_2010]

Just a reply from your post on my thread B74...

I will try to take a look at your sitch this evening. I don't know how long you have been doing this, but I would not suggest filing, or threatening to file, until you have exhausted all other options and efforts. My choice truly was the last, last resort... and I was at a place emotionally where I felt that I could accept either outcome. Just something to keep in mind.

Denver

[Broken74]

Thanks Denver!

I'm in North Carolina so I've been subjected to the year long separation that on paper started 8/27/11. I say on paper because we didn't physically separate until late September, but given the legalities involved during this nonsense, I was forceably coerced into signing the separation agreement she put forward, which protected her (no debt) and the OM (alienation of affection) unfortunately.

She is still with the OM she started the affair with. This is my boundary, I will not be married to a woman who is this disrespectful to me in the face of the things I have done for her and my 3 stepchildren. I own my role in the downfall of our marriage. By my W own admission however, the good outweighed the bad.

I see your point that filing should be a last resort. I am at the end of my rope. My sitch is much more ridiculous than most. I definitely accept either outcome now, I will be fine and happy either way. If she chooses to sign and file and continue with OM or the next bloke that comes along, I hope that her decision making works out in the best interest of her and my stepkids in the long run. I'm also of the opinion of if filing doesn't shake her lose, then nothing I can do ever will.

So 40 days to go to for me, I'm going totally dark for this period which will include her birthday, and will see what happens.

[Denver_2010]

I read your initial post here on DB and have skimmed some of your recent updates. Here are some thoughts and questions for you.

First, what do you want here? I mean what do you really want? Divorce, reconcile your M, find someone else to replace your W, closure? What??

You said that your last physical contact with your W was in Feb. Would you mind describing some of your non physical recent contact again? I know that you have probably posted it back a ways, but I just want a synopsis.

It sounds like your W still has OM. Is this the same OM that you busted her with at the very beginning of all of this? A doctor right? I'm just trying to clarify that this has been a long term thing for her rather than her playing the field. Big difference IMO. The emotional bond, which would be evidenced by a longer term A, is more difficult to break and overcome than the situation where a W is just seeing what else is out there.

A couple of thoughts on some things that I read that you have posted.

You said that you are no longer going to be the 'nice guy' in R's going forward. I get that. I was that too with my W and my SS. Provided nice things for them that they could have never had without me. But I wouldn't say that my mistake was being a 'nice guy'. I'd say that my issue was that I was a 'fixer'... you actually admitted early in your threads that you were the 'white knight'. That was me too. NOT doing that does not mean that you can't be a nice guy. IMO there is a difference between looking at someone and saying to yourself, even subconsciously, that you are going to fix their life, and the situation where you have an evenly weighted R with you W and provide for her, and your family, as any H should. My mistake was looking at things like 'this is mine' and 'this is yours'... I will use what is mine to help you, or fix you. As opposed to, 'this is ours'... in which case, you make decisions, financial or otherwise, together, with each of you having an even amount of say in the matter. See the difference? Hard to explain. Bottom line though, is that your goal should be to lose the 'fixer' mentality. It creates a situation where one party becomes almost like a parental figure rather than a spouse. JMO from my experience.

I see some definite control issues with you. Maybe that has been addressed here... probably has at nauseum. I still see that issue in you just with the little bit that I read. I don't mean that as a 2x4 over your head though. I struggled with it even after I realized it was an issue, still do. But you have to realize that any time that you do something with the intent to influence what your W does, that you are being controlling... at least to some degree. It is a very difficult issue to really cure yourself of. A friend of mine here on this board once told me that when his wife would cook, he would go over to the pan of food, taste it, and then add a little spice or salt to it. What he realized was that even that little action was controlling behavior. He didn't just let his W cook him a meal, he had to influence what she was doing. Hell, if he wanted more spice in the food, he should have cooked it himself! LOL Anyway, hopefully you get my point. And hopefully you have really looked at this issue so that you don't repeat it in the future with your W or someone new.

You recognized that you had a problem with alcohol. I'm glad. Sounds like you have addressed this. Kudos. But make sure that you stay on top of this.

The verbal abuse that you inflicted on your W, I'm sure, caused her a lot of emotional pain. You have to realize that this does not go away overnight... or, in cases such as your's and mine, maybe not even in months. Your W talked to you about 'walls' being up between you and her heart. My W talked of those same 'walls' for months and months. It may be that she will never take down that wall, or forgive you for the hurt that you have caused her. What I can tell you is that your only hope is long term, consistent, loving behavior by you to and for her. Unconditional love is hard to turn away from. Read some of my threads, and you will see me either quoting Truegritter, or you will see Truegritter posting to me, on the topic of unconditional love. That is a concept that I learned a lot about during the past 18 months. It is not easy. Especially when there is an OM. And I do believe that we reach a point where we do have to love ourselves, protect ourselves. For about 99% of my situation, I treated my W with nothing but love no matter how hurtful she was being or how crappy the situation was. I was consistent, and it was for a very long period of time. I did have boundaries that I did my best to enforce. I was good at that at times, and horrible at it others. For me, my boundary was that I would treat her with love and respect, that I would give her the time that she needed to figure things out, that I would be patient. But that I would not be a part of her life if there was an OM. That meant that we had periods where I just wouldn't be involved in her life. I wouldn't contact her, and when she contacted me, I was short and business like.

But my boundary was not that if you have an OM I will file for D. It was only when I was completely out of emotional fuel to keep going... When I could no longer get up in the morning and say to myself 'today is not the day that I give up', that I decided that I was ready to file and accept the outcome either way.

Only you can decide whether or not you have shown her the best of you, consistently and for a long enough period of time, to give yourself a chance with her. Only you can decide whether or not you have any more emotional fuel to keep going. No one can answer those questions for you.

What I can tell you, is what my good friend 2stepboogie told me about D, it will not bring you closure. One day you will be still be married and the next you will not. That will be the only difference. What is in your heart will not change with that piece of paper.

And, it will not work as a tactic. Only if you truly mean it and only if your W has seen the new you consistently and for a long period of time, does it have any chance of making a difference. Otherwise, you file, and you will be divorced.

Sooo... there is my 2 cents. for what it is worth.

Denver

[Broken74]

Wow Denver thank you so much! I greatly appreciate you taking the time to review my sitch and provide such great feedback in a constructive manner. I am still reviewing your sitch in it's entirety but I think you have swayed my thinking on the decision to file.

What I want, is another change for a loving R with my W. I realize that our marriage as it was is dead. If I could get another shot at it, I know we could do it right. I miss her and my stepkids tremendously. Reconciling has been my goal since the bomb including from the day I found out about the OM to present. In my heart I have forgiven her for all her missteps. When posting here I sometimes mention them to give context to my sitch, but in my heart I have sincerely forgiven her.

Since our last physical contact, there were some arguments, and some pleasantries. The arguments were when she made it known she was still seeing her affair partner. Then a couple of months ago she reached out to me when her sister was seemingly on her death bed. Really having been speaking by phone primarily by text, last phone conversation we had was on our anniversary and she admitted she may be falling in love with OM.

Affirmative she is still seeing the original OM I busted her with. First guy she corresponded with on Match.com literally. <mind reading> I think to some degree she was scared of her situation financially for her and the kids as she moved out, and latched onto him for security. In speaking with some of her family through this they have mentioned she has always been the "material girl" and are not so much surprised by the situation.

Your nice guy synopsis is spot on for me too and I though the same way. I always considered it "ours", but in the back of my mind I knew I was contributing 80% with no support from elsewhere for the stepkids. This caused me to harbor resentment and exacerbated my "male privalege" making me think I was entitled to come and go as I please and say whatever I felt without consequence. All of these thoughts and actions were very much wrong. I have always been a fixer too, first wife, other relationships, and especially this one. I fixed her bankruptcy but certainly had/have no chance of fixing her.

Control has been issue for me and still is, I am still working on this. She is still driving a car that I bought at Christmas. When I confirmed OM for certain on Sunday I thought of issuing an "either buy the car or let me know when I can pick it up" type of notice, but have thought better of it. If I hadn't confirmed OM I wouldn't have considered this. I was considering it out of spite and hurt and an attempt to control her in a way.

My sobriety has helped me personally a lot, as per conversations I've had with her she still doesn't buy it, since I don't see her there is no way to prove this to her.

You're right on the verbal abuse. I said some very mean things and some meaner things I'm sure that I don't remember saying in a drunken stupor. In one of her chats with the OM early on she mentioned "someone can only hurt her so many times then the wall goes up permanently". Unfortunately that's where I am with her and I doubt the wall will ever come down.

Our last negative conversation as I recall was in March when she mentioned the OM. Since then I have been showing nothing but unconditional love. I've been contributing to the 529k's I set up for my 3 stepkids. I sent flowers and was willing to do whatever to support her while her sister was in the hospital. Sent flowers and supported her when she said she'd had a hysterectomy. Offered to do things for her. Been giving her the space she wanted. Given she doesn't want to see me and we don't have kids together, there is really no catalyst for us to see each other. I would do other things but they would seem persuing so I don't do them.

As much as I love her Denver I feel that I am running out of gas. I have done everything within my power and tried harder to work this out than anything in my entire life, only to find out she is still with the original OM. It would be easier if she was with someone else honestly. I was babysitting my stepchildren the day that I busted her red handed. One day I have custody of her three children, the next day she filed a restraining order on me because she was fearful of me after I busted her affair. I said nothing mean to her all had nothing but forgiveness and wanted to work on things immediately. She said she wanted to kill me because the OM dumped her that night when I confronted him. The past year without question has been the hardest of my life.

I think you've convinced me to give it some more time. I know she is with OM so I am not going to deal with her at all unless she approaches me. I am going to hang out with my SS on Monday and am looking forward to that, but that has nothing to do with her. I will be LRT'ing and handle any comms from her in a short business manner as you suggested. Hell maybe she'll serve me on the 27th who knows.

Her birthday is 8/14. I should absolutely do nothing for this right? Of course my idea was to send her a card with notification of retrouville session in early September or a coupon for the "husband of her dreams" lol Cheesy and worthy of about 50 2x4's right?

I'm just going to chill and see what develops and reevaluate my feelings as time progresses. I've never made it more than 2 weeks with no contact so will be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks a million for your thoughtful feedback Denver. I am so happy and envious of your outcome. You have given me a new lease on life and hope for a sitch such as mine. You're .02 is worth more than it's weight in gold and I can't express how much I appreciate. Enjoy the spoils of your hard work for my friend, I am pulling for you in your quest for lifelong happiness with your W.

Thanks again and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!