Navy Here is your chance she seriously disrespected you! Serve her papers. This was a huge slap in the face, and she just proved that she can say she is going to go hang out with this guy, and you are powerless to stop it. Which means she can now go sleep with him, and you are also powerless to stop her. This is proving to her that you will stay no matter how much she disrespects you. So guess what it'll get worse. Now don't go crazy and make a scene just calmly inform her that her actions have shown she has no respect for you and the marriage and that you will be serving her soon.
Me and my w had a similar problem. She couldn't see how her actions with friends were bad. I had to make it clear that it had to do nothing with impropriety but the perception of it. If she thinks this relationship is so clean then why are you not involved why are you cut out from their dinners? Why must she hide so much. More importantly if she can't accept your boundaries then what is she doing with you? She needs to move on to a relationship status where she won't have boundaries she doesn't like.
I can tell from your comments that you are already trying to rationalize her blatant disrespect. It's not that you are too strict, it's that you are too weak to stand up to someone who doesn't respect you.
Sorry if I sound harsh but come on man. Everyone around you and on this board agrees this is out of line, and you are wondering if you are too strict?!
All you can do is let it go?! Sounds like you are too afraid to be alone so, yes you are right all you can do is let it go. As for your kids, well I guess it's ok for them to grow up thinking that it's ok for mommy to have man friends on the side, and to go get drunk all night away from home.
Seriously Navy when is enough, enough?!
GB...I'm not saying I'm going to "let it go", I said I need to "let go". Maybe that means filing, maybe that means I get to a place where I am ok with this friendship. I don't know right now. Hopefully between IC, MC, and EE I can figure that out.
Yesterday's drama was pointless...all it did was piss W off.
BITS M: 35 W: 35 T14, M11 D9, S6 ILYBINILY: June 09 Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11 W came home: 3/17/11 EE: July 2012 Dropped the rope: Oct 2012 Piecing: April 2013 Not piecing: April 2014 Stuck.
I need to pipe in here and say this sort of blatant behavior is precisely what a lot of MLC WAS do. I mean, hell, they go so far as to even discuss having dinner over at the OW/OM or discuss meeting the friends of the OW/OM.
I'm
Not sure I understand what you are getting at here...are you saying W is "putting on a show" for me to get me to react?
Sorry I wasn't clearer before. I'm saying that your W's behavior is similar to what people who are in MLC do naturally too. They are what I consider to be quite disrespectful, thoughtless, insensitive and selfish generally, and in some cases blatantly refusing to let go of the OW/OM. It sometimes requires a different tactic than the standard response - and us demanding respect just doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Each response is different, dependent upon the characters involved. So, either way there will be a lot of growth involved for you personally. Maybe your journey will include developing your assertive skills and self esteem.
Back for lunch, I've been thinking about your sitch all morning, Navy.
What I think we all get is that you love your W. I know my dad loves my mom. That's why he stays. Yet he remains frustrated. I "help" him with DB tools and others so maybe he won't get drawn in, so much.
This possibly has been gone over with you, before. I'll state it again, though.
There are symptoms of alcohol... AND... alcohol is a symptom. Often, depression can be the root. Alcohol is used to self medicate the depression. To get an idea of what some of the symptoms of alcoholism can be, read up on bi-polar disorder. There may also be certain anxiety disorders that show up as symptoms, or possibly causes. That's the craziness of it.
My dad mentioned recently to me, that at one time he thought my mom was having an affair. He realized it was wrong of him, but when he came to that conclusion, he had an affair. He sarcastically jokes now, that my mom IS having an affair. With the bottle.
There are different types of alcoholism. Some open, some hidden. One that is difficult to spot is the social alcoholic. Because it's socially acceptable to go out and drink with buddies or to have friends over for a drink or go to a sporting event for a drink or... [insert reasons that include friends] for a drink...
I sometimes think my W may be a social alcoholic. I actually can not remember a time that we went anywhere socially and my W did not have a drink or three. Just before BD and now during our sitch, she is drinking quite a bit and I have knowledge of a large number of times my W has got herself bombed. That's not to say she's an alcoholic at this time, although she is likely at risk due to her use as well as a possible family history of alcoholism.
Open alcoholism is almost "in your face" because so what if they're having a drink. Everyone is having a drink. It's what people do. And besides, we all need to wind down after a busy week or just to "take the edge off".
When it's hidden, the alcoholic is damned good at hiding it. My mom has easily a dozen hiding spots for her bottles. And she uses a card to purchase so my dad does not see. Hidden bank accounts, hiding spots for the bottles (full AND empty), filing empty bottles with similar coloured liquids, hiding spots to drink (a "private" office in the house, a den, a guest bedroom), etc, etc, etc. And in the case of your wife, possibly "hidden" friends. And as I mentioned, she'd probably rather you think she's having an affair, because she does not want to be accused of being an alcoholic. Because she feels guilty about it, and then angry at herself, and then angry at you, and then sad, and then... happy... (bi-polar behaviours) which are, of course, all reasons to drink...
Do what ever you need to for yourself and for your kids and please, please, please at least do research on alcoholism. It can help you know what to expect and how you can be, in a healthy way, with an alcoholic.
Navy Did you notice how concerned you are about whether your W is angry or not?
Coming from one officer to another we both know that often doing the right thing will make people mad. Yet we have a duty to do what is right no matter how personally painful or how much others may not like it.
In this case you have a duty to yourself, and to your children. Is this the model of relationships you want for them? Is this what you want for yourself?
Am I advocating divorce, yes I am.
That's because in the 18 plus months since the bomb was dropped on me my view on marriage has changed. I don't believe in unconditional love.
Look your W for some reason or another no matter what she says needs you. Whether its to pay her bills, as a live in nanny for the children, or to assuage her own guilt she needs you. She's not even conflicted as to whether she loves you. As I remember she's told you multiple times she's in it for the kids. Not you.
We have both been on here long enough that if a WAW wants to leave she will leave at first chance. No matter how much it may eat away at her she is as stuck in the relationship as you are. She probably resents you for that too.
She knows she can't go back to being an irresponsible 22 year old bachelorette, so she does the closest thing which is be an irresponsible wife and mother of two. She can only act this way because you enable her to, and she begrudgingly knows this.
Otherwise she'd have to be a hard working single mom who has to work all day and take of the kids, and maybe even hire a baby sitter so she can go and have fun.
As for OM he'll be the first in a long line. Plenty of guys will enable a wayward woman for a shot at having her.
The real question is do you have a limit? Will you forgive an EA, a PA? You walking in on them?
My biggest thing here is you learning how to repeat your own feelings. Everytime she gets mad a you, you doubt your feelings and let her continue to do with you as she pleases.
not sure when this thread will lock up, btw, but here's my .02
The workshop you'll attend is soon. Is it next week? OR the one after? I promise you that you'll have a lot more clarity AND strength to follow through, when you are done with that.
Meanwhile there's no purpose served in you leaving since your kids are in the house.
Other than that, I'm kind of waiting to see what lights go off for you at EE and how your w reacts to your changes. (Don't forget the post workshop support-it's all free and it's frickin' life saving)...
Anyone who tells you to "Serve her papers" is shooting from the hip and perhaps forgetting what THIS particular site is about.
GB maybe you could re-phrase that b/c serving her papers b/c she SAYS she's having dinner with someone whom her h doesn't approve of, won't cut it. And really, is THAT the straw that breaks the back? Gosh, there were so many...
WE know it might be more than a dinner, yes we know, and WE know it's inappropriate but Navy's wife is like many MLCers (even though IMO she's not in a MLC, per se, or if she is, it's a damn long one)
which isn't that she's intentionally doing this to hurt Navy. She might be. But my guess is she's utterly clueless b/c she's self absorbed. Whether that's b/c she's an alcoholic or depressed OR self medicating for her depression.... not sure that ^^^ all matters. Besides GB, I don't know your own sitch anymore b/c you don't post it much, but I do sometimes wonder how you'd advise someone in your own situation...
ANYHOW We're now here for Navy and HIS life, right? Okay Navy, tell us how best we can support you.
I'm really pulling for you to be visibile in that workshop, make the most of it.
It might well be the only time in your life,
that you slow down to take the exit ramp and get to a scenic overlook-- to see where you've been and where you want your life to go AND how to get there.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
you might want to start a new thread soon. I hate it when the threads get locked even though I rarely see it without a warning.
When that happens though, it really stinks b/c we have to guess and hunt where you are.
So geez, um, yikes...
if I promise not to say this again, can I hope it won't count as "nagging"?
Okay Godspeed my friend,
I am looking very forward to hearing from you after the EE workshop.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25 The advice I'm giving Navy is not just advice, it's actually what I did in my sitch, and what has put us in a slow path to a possible recovery.
I better provide a frame of reference.
For those that remember roughly a year ago I was in Navy's shoes. My W acted like she hated being with me, but stayed while she made up her mind on how much she wanted to leave. She even went as far as demanding an open relationship. I was so terrified that she'd leave that whatever demand she'd make I'd comply. Much like Navy I was afraid of being seen as over bearing or a jerk that kept my wife from having a social life, and having friends.
Pretty much I'd appease and appease in the hopes that my W would see how great a guy I am, yet she would want to be with me less and less. In fact she outright disliked me as a person.
Young at Heart at one point introduced no more mr nice guy to me. The book spoke to me because it made me realize that I wasn't necessarily acting out of love but fear of being alone. So no matter how ridiculous the situation I'd accept.
I guess I see Navy's situation continuing to deteriorate after more than a year. So I have to ask when is it enough?
My W was in a sort of MLC too. She didn't know if she wanted to stay or leave. Yet she knew that she had all the time in the world to decide because I was so desperate.
So she pretty much said and did as she pleased. All she had to do was threaten to leave. It's not a dynamic neither of us is proud of.
So one day after reading no more mr nice guy. I decided to take a stand.
I don't even remember what the argument was about. I just remember saying if I was so bad of a person to be married to why doesn't she just leave? Of course this escalated the fight, she got pretty angry, even threw stuff. Didn't talk to me for a few days. I was sure it was over.
Yet when she finally calmed down, I noticed her demeanor changed. I guess she had some time to really think how much she really wanted to leave. I opened the door, told her I didn't want her to live, but if I was so terrible it may be best.
In essence she was free to choose, no pressure.
Now of course this wasn't the end. The following months were full of conflict as I started demanding she be the W I believe I deserve. (trust me I don't ask for much). The final word always being if this is unacceptable then maybe we should divorce.
It wasn't a tactic or a game technique either, I meant it. If she can't be a loving wife then we should move on. I would do my best to be a good husband but i expected the same from her.
If she did unacceptable things I would call her out, if she threatened divorced I wouldn't stand in her way.
A year later we are far from perfect, but the blatant disrespect is gone, the verbal attacks, the general irritability is gone, and while she still periodically has her doubts she is in no rush to leave. Instead physical affection has returned, we can laugh together, and enjoy spending lots of time in each others company.
In the past she could be completely vicious and get her way. I don't think she is a bad person, but we developed that dynamic where she got her way by being mean. It was all we knew.
Instead now I like to think that she knows that I love her, but it doesn't mean I will tolerate nonsense. She gets nothin out of acting out, but when she is sweet, loving, nice I can't help but just do all I can for her. We are getting closer to a relationship of mutual caring for each other. We still have work cut out for sure, but it all started with me saying enough is enough.
As for her seeing OM over Navy. I think he should simply say if your relationship with OM is so important then you need to do it as a single woman. If she wants to act single she needs to be single, if she wants to be married she needs to act married.
I know the goal of this site is to save marriages, but Navy has been on this cheese less tunnel for over a year and a half that I now. His only strategy has been to be nicer, and if that doesn't work he tries to be even more nicer. I think it's time to change it up a little.
I would never give a new person the advice I am giving Navy. That would be shooting from the hip, but based on all that has happened I think it's prudent advice.
Hi Navy/Mike. I was just checking in on you and found that a lot has happened since I was last here.
I have lots of thoughts on your stich. You and I have so much in common with what we have gone through over the past 19 months. I may try to come back when I have more time and you give you my perspective. For the most part though, I agree a lot with Starsky and 25MLC.
Bottom line Navy... you need to find some peace in your life. I hope that you do very soon.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I know the goal of this site is to save marriages, but Navy has been on this cheese less tunnel for over a year and a half that I now. His only strategy has been to be nicer, and if that doesn't work he tries to be even more nicer. I think it's time to change it up a little.
