Swimming with certain Turtles

[zig]

Aaah KD - my heart goes out to you just as it goes out to my h.

what you described as your w doing - and the reasons she used and the way she went about it - was exactly me when i was in that high anxiety state.

and there was nothing h could do to "satisfy" my needs - because he couldn't take away my anxiety - i had to do that myself.

i remember saying exactly those same things.

granted - mine was caused by the post-concussion symptoms and my reaction to having a movement disorder

but anxiety is the same, no matter what the cause.

I don't feel "good" saying that I gave in to controlling behaviour. Yet it looks that way.

from where i'm standing - you didn't give in to controlling behavior - I promise you that. you simply knew that there is no way around it that would help her anxiety levels to go down

see, it looked that way to my h too - that's why he screamed so much about me controlling him.

sadly sadly, for your wife now and me then - it's the behavior controlling us.

and oddly enough - in the first months of our sitch - i watched h become like how i used to be - and it fascinated me - how high levels of stress (no matter what the source) can create that same anxiety in any person, in an instant

did this start only after the separation or was it there before?

how do you react to it when it happens - before? now?

i can only tell you what it felt like from my point of view - when i was in the throes of it. maybe it can help you to find another way to deal with it.

here's my theory this first part is what it feels like while you're in that state

when a person is already at the peak of the anxiety, i.e.. their brain has basically become overwhelmed and the amygdala (fight or flight response) has kicked in - they are slightly irrational, literally cannot think and have basically shut down.

(as an aside - i think the was and mlc'ers are mostly in that state)

they cling to the familiar (what ever it is) and cannot be flexible and their minds literally cannot move from that state. if during this time another person is arguing with them or even trying to have a casual discussion or get them to decide something - they go into panic mode. they are actually during this time (at least i was) desperately trying to return to normal, because they sense they are not in a normal state

some people can come back to normal, or a less stressed state in as short as 15 or 20 minutes - for some it takes hours, for some days. when they get there, then they can think again.

so my first suggestion to you - is figure out how long it takes your wife to "come down".

when i was in that state:
1. i desperately wanted the pressure OFF -it could be as little as someone trying to ask me where the plates were
2. i wanted to be reassured SO SO bad - it was insane - it's like you are completely ungrounded and [censored] scared and you just want someone to tell you that you're going to be okay
3. i needed space - a lot of space - and the space was to "come down"

it may sound like i am really exaggerating here,, but believe me, i'm not.

when i didn't get the space: I went into full blown "fight mode". really went nuts.

this second part is one of the ways it can lead up to that state
also - one of my characteristic was, just like your w's - that i would be fine with an arrangement/agreement made well in advance - really fine with it, and as the event grew closer i got more and more anxious until by the time it was time to do it i was completely losing it. it sounds as if that's what your wife does.

i don't know what the answer to that is - it's not control on her part - i am sure it wasn't on mine. all i know is the more i worked on myself and healed my inner issues, that behavior started to fade away. i still have it - but mildly and i can talk myself down out of it. i remember always being puzzled that why was i originally okay with it and then got so messed up about whatever (for me it could be as little as an appointment made 2 weeks in advance - by the time it came i was so overwhelmed, i would cancel it)


while i've worked on myself, i have wondered if it was a commitment issue on some level - where you commit but you don't really believe in it and so it causes you great anxiety and then you renege on the whole thing

you are already aware that she is treating the symptoms and not the underlying problem, which you are right, stems from early stuff.

you did an amazing thing there - KD, you may not realize it. you actually inadvertently did the best thing you could when you agreed to be flexible and let her have it the way she was more comfortable with.

i think that is the key - her anxiety level will only continue to rise if she senses resistance and you sort of become the "enemy that she has to fight against" in her anxious state. when you backed off, you weren't the enemy any longer - and look what you got in return?

but it continues on - in her continually anxious state you are labelled as a source of anxiety - so the more you back off, the more she can relax and then the more she is able to offer and give.

so step #! for you - stop seeing it as her controlling. start seeing as you being instrumental in lowering her anxiety levels and having a lot of power to do so

sadly my h refused to see this, and so when i was at my worst he pushed the hardest and pushed and pushed - sometimes for up to 2 hrs - by then i was so gone...

about 3 times he made the effort to just take me in his arms and say - it;s alright , let's just take it easy for a few minutes - and it transformed my world - i didn't go into the fight or flight, and within 20 minutes i was okay and "safe" again in myself

i'm not saying it was his job to do it - but in a sense it was his role as my partner to find the best possible way to deal with so that our r could flourish instead of deteriorate.

in the same way - it's not your job to give in to her all the time - but as the father in your family - if this is what works - is your family better off with this gesture or without?

believe me KD - the less anxious she feels - the more she will offer. at the minimum if you verbally back off - saying something light - oh, you know of course we need to discuss this, but how about we do it later and just relax right now about it.

as an end note - i saw this in h from the very beginning - and because i'd been there and saw the signs so strong - i've made it a point in every moment that i can to just back off from any pressure when he's in an anxious state. always - just let it go. because i know it is pointless to add more on when the person is already in overdrive. it feels as if they have all the control - but no - it's the other person who does - the other person has the control to decide if they will push on the issue or not and completely determine the outcome of how negatively or positively it will pan out

okay - once again - long, i'm not even sure what i wrote makes sense and i'm too knackered to read it through, so unedited!!

will stop for a few minutes and wait to see if you reply. and then will tell you what helped me to stop being like that