ah yes, I did figure there'd be a post about that.
Yes bug, I did consider there'd be concern that my comment about boundaries might be too casual.
In my mind, there is no tolerance for abuse. Being the intentional and possibly repeated causing of harm to another person.
Otherwise, whether boundary or ultimatum, the WAS still does not care to the extent that they are generally not worried about whether we are offended by them. Because they are prepared to loose us as a friend, and they are certainly not actively worried that we will D them.
oh believe me - when i said earlier that i get [censored] scared when there are signs of him moving closer - it's not like i'm not aware of why i'm afraid.
the stronger i get, the more i see the things i don't want to live with
otoh, i don't want to be blind to what my own reactions and role were in this.
when i find myself thinking too much about what he did and how he was - i have to be careful that i am not falling into the trap of justifying for myself too much
so will things change?
of course - because they already have. the way i interact with him has become so completely utterly different that even he recognizes that we are getting along great. i'm not doing it in a fake way - i lost the part of me that used to be the way i was - and i can't even try to be that if i acted it.
he told me in the first months after the BD - i was so sure i was really gone - but you're not acting the way i expected you to, i wish you would so i could really be gone. now the way you are has made me really conflicted.
back then - i didn't know anything about DB - now i do. and also now i'm finally able to see what the vets mean when they say you can DB in every part of your life.
i don't expect to stop doing that, even if we reconcile, or i eventually move on to another relationship.
i can't say that i can see completely clearly what really happened. i am still untangling so much of what he said over the years - and trying to separate out what was really true as a fact and what was him projecting on to me or telling me that it was a certain way - because he wanted to view it that way to justify his own stuff
one of the nonstop themes was "zig, you are so messed up and f'ed up because of your childhood"
the thing was i didn't feel messed up or f'ed and i didn't LIVE it. i was totally functional.
i was messed up about stuff - but it was clear - i had to work through all these dramatic changes that had just happened. his view was - you don't really love me if you have to work through this stuff, and you aren't overnight just delighted in your new life.
i would have been, if i didn't see all this weird stuff that made me uneasy and then anxious. then it became a cycle - the more anxious i was the more he resisted and on and on until i got positively OCD. now when i look back - i think i had a vicious case of postpartum depression on top of it all that got left untreated and undiagnosed.
I'm different now - and i often think - well if he comes back and really works at it and there are certain things he is unable to change within himself, what will i do?
i find myself thinking that i have learned a different way of reacting to his stuff - what i didn't know before was how to talk with him (i was too confrontational), i didn't understand that i can be detached and loving and not get pulled in -and so it seems to me, that also accepting a person as they are is something to think about.
i believe that my h is a person that if he decides he wants to give our r a try, will see these things for himself
i'm not basing that on nothing - he has admitted a lot of this stuff to me over the months - most of it, i never ever expected him to even see, let alone acknowledge to me.
even though i give such a negative pic of h most of the time - because those are the things i am working through and focusing on, there is a ton of positive stuff - how we connect - how hard and crazy intense we worked together, how much we laughed while we did it, how he bent over backwards to satisfy any request i had (beside the point that he did it martyrishly, grin) - we had a ton of happy times.
he's admitted that recently - that night we spent together - "I was really happy" slipped out - then he realized he said that and got all funny !!!!
the negative stuff - was sort of alongside it - and needed to be dealt with - and i always trusted we could. i try to see this sitch as the time we are doing it.
wow - wonder why i need to write such long posts - working through stuff i suppose - the next layer. timely i think, because as i resolve this, it's time for a new thread and another step.....
thanks dear friends - for walking alongside me on this journey and being here to prop me up when i veer of course
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
well - quite a discussion going on while i was meditating and posting myself.
KD, labug - thanks - i like the differentiation you make between ultimate boundaries and ultimatums - good for me to read that
KD - i'll start a new thread later - need to just go through this discussion first here - sort of symbolically need to resolve this before starting the next step - it's imminent!!
going back to read what you guys wrote again
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
one of the most agonizingly painful things that happened after BD, for me, was that h completely stopped acknowledging my relationship to s as his mother
I was only zig - not mom, or your mother or any reference whatsoever that would imply that. what s called me and what h referred to me as was "mama". in response, s started calling me zig too
i wept, i cried, i was devastated - that's by far, what hurt almost the most.
it took me a long time to get over - i had to work at it.
then finally i let it go.
then slowly - almost without me noticing, just in the last couple of months - he started saying 'your mother ' to s
now today for the second time in a row - he said "give your mama a hug and then we'll leave"
the first time, i wasn't sure if i imagined it - but confirmed today!!
and my initial reaction - oh god -i wanted that so bad for so long and then i convinced myself it wasn't that important and now it's here....
there's a lesson there for sure, ya think?
now a few minutes later, i'm so pleased to be given back my 'mama status' all around (grin)
itsy bitsy baby step....maybe....
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Hey zig, I figured I'd respond to your question to me in Accuray's thread regarding the details of me giving my W more than what she wanted.
It really is a bit of a long story and I think that considering what you've "been through" you might get something more from knowing the details.
~~~~~~~~
Our biggest disagreement on separation (at least as far as I was concerned) was over the kids, custody, etc.
The best I know how to say this is, my W "suffers" hugely from anxiety. It shows up a lot, in different ways, and it looks like controlling behaviour in many contexts. I have absolutely no idea the root of her anxiety, I'm guessing it began sometime in her early childhood. It is likely a big part of her... "responsibility" for the breakdown of our M.
So, when it came for my week to have D9 this summer (our summer schedule; D9 only visits on weekends during school), my W had a nervous breakdown, as far as I can tell. It built up and I could see it coming. She ended up giving a whole bunch of reasons why it was not in D9's "best interest" to be with me. It actually had nothing to do WITH me. They are things that are within my control under different circumstances for me. And if it wasn't these things, it would have been something different. Of that, I am certain.
For example, one of the items she was worried about was D9 watching TV while under "daycare" while I'm at work. She was reaching at straws, while she just wasn't willing to admit what I am very sure of. That my W was having an anxiety attack because she felt "out of control" of things.
So I know this about my W. So I "know what she wants". For lack of a better term, she wants to feel "in control". It IS control and to the outside observer, it's irrational. But my W really NEEDS that. Otherwise I have no doubt that she'd have a nervous breakdown or... seriously... maybe a stroke or heart attack due to her high blood pressure...
No, she doesn't really NEED control. She just feels that NEED in the same way that people panic when they can't breathe. She won't go see a therapist. Nothing I can do to help her, other than to "give in" to her control. Again, seriously. I have no idea what would happen. Maybe nothing would happen. I'm just not prepared to deal with the consequences of some very real risk of a mortal medical condition over this. I don't think she knows that very real concern I have for her and the kids.
So, I gave her full control of the custody schedule under the guise of "flexibility". Something that she began asking for, as soon as the separation agreement was put together.
So her request was to stay with the school schedule of me having D9 with me on the weekends. I told her that we can do more and not at all set dates. Just play it by ear as to when D9 wanted to be with me. So I "gave her more" than she requested (which in her mind would allow her to feel 100% in control). Her response was that I could pop by to visit with the kids any time.
I don't feel "good" saying that I gave in to controlling behaviour. Yet it looks that way. Like I said, the reality is, my W has high blood pressure which may or may not be a symptom of her anxiety. When she casually takes her blood pressure at a kiosk, it's not too bad; when she goes to the doctor, her anxiety spikes and her blood pressure goes through the roof. Her doctor knows about this and takes about three or four samples and kinda takes an average. Again, huge long story there's more medical symptoms that are an issue for my W which could stem from this anxiety. She's treating the symptoms, not the anxiety.
So to kind of give you a break down of all of this and how it relates to my ditch:
I knew full well my W's anxiety disorder and knew full well it was undiagnosed and untreated. My W was very open about this "condition" that she explained as "I have to warn you that I'm a little crazy." That's a paraphrase, and was said in jest, yet I know that underneath, she was saying it with complete sincerity and fair warning.
I felt that I could deal with that and frankly, I love her "that way". So when the web began to weave over the years, I locked into my vows. Even though I had given up on the M in function, I was not going to give up in spirit nor on paper.
In fairness, she has a fairly normal, functional life. Like OCD, day to day things are easy enough. But when the anxiety kicks in... it gets messed up and ugly. I actually don't think I really understood this until now that you've asked for and I've given these details. This actually puts probably the final chapter to this book for me. It's not much an epiphany... rather it just puts that last keystone in place that really allows me to understand what went "wrong", if you will.
Like an addict, someone with a PD is controlled by their "issue". Under appropriate treatment and care, they can "beat" their issue. At least, for the most part.
At one point in time, I think I posted here something along the lines of "I thought I was strong enough and realized I wasn't" and that "I didn't have the tools available to work through this". Maybe in some ways, I saw my mom in my W. How I loved her and thought I could support her... maybe even "fix" her... but I can't fix my mom's alcoholism... and I can't fix my W's anxiety.
And I have to be OK with that.
In the end, I was planning on sticking around. Because I loved my W. I believed in our nuclear family. I had said my vows.
And in the end, for what ever reason, my W had her multiple EAs. And that was the final straw, for me. Something that, at that moment, I would not tolerate. And, in making those choices, my W was on the move out of the M, anyhow. Yes, my responsibility was that I stopped being there for her. I just ran out of steam and could not keep up with the chaos. I think that part of my W's method of dealing with her anxiety is to keep herself busy which allows her to avoid the anxiety yet still feel like she's in control of her life at every moment. If she stopped doing that... she'd likely feel completely out of control...
So I don't know where this story ends or if it ends.
For me... it's the title of the new thread I started.
I have to find my happy place. That inner peace. Knowing that all is well in the world as best it can be and is as it will be.
