Fighting between faith & reality

[RoofTop]

I started a new thread because something came to mind this morning that I wanted to get into writing so that I can come back and reflect. Please bear with me as I may or may not be very organized in my thoughts.

I have not let go of my W - yet(ever?). It's not that I haven't been trying and it's not that I haven't been praying for it nightly. I want to let go, but I don't know for certain if that's what's best for my soon to be XW, me and our kids. I don't want stress in my life so I'm confident that I don't want my W in my life right now. On the other hand a series of thoughts came to me today as every now and then something comes about and I'm reminded of something she told me.

Some months back my W told me that the kids will be fine because she and I turned out fine having come from divorced parents. I disagree completely with this summation.

I haven't known my F since I was 3 and have never had a F since. I grew up emotionally detached from everyone because I depended solely on myself. I'm a survivor and always have been. I look at my S6 and I see that in him, but mostly my W. He's very social and will reach out to anyone who wants to play, but watching closely I can see him. He's a good kid and is not a trouble maker at all, but I see him seeking acceptance from kids around him and his efforts to be part of the crowd. I feel as though he will grow up not being equipped with knowing how to be honest with himself. Oddly enough, this sort of fits my W's characteristics and S6 does act a lot like her.

S12 on the other hand is very self reliant and difficult to develop trust with. Our forthcoming D is very hard on him. He feels betrayed by the decision his mom made, but he's incapable of understanding and tapping into his own emotions - like me. He's very selfish like me so he has trouble articulating his feelings without putting people on the defensive. He's also a quitter. If someones not hearing him he shuts down. If he deems something unfair or agrivates him, he's likely to give only 20% effort or give up completely. He does not get this from me and I've never been much of a quitter.

As I reflect on these past few years of living with my W's decisions processing, I'm wondering how this is affecting our kids. One is emotionally self reliant and one is emotionally inept, so how is MLC and my reactions to it making things better or worse? S12 is losing his relationship with his mom. He doesn't approve of her decisions as she's 21 again and not the mom he grew up with. S6 is just happy to spend time with her, but never really grew up knowing anything other than a 21 yr old mom.

I don't know how to help them and I don't know how to help my W. I fought for my W for the past few years, trying to find out what tools I had been using and trying to aquire new tools. Somewhere along the lines I gained new tools and not too long ago I learned that I really do believe I'm worth fighting for.

I don't mind talking with my W on the phone because I don't have to see her. It's when I'm around her that I have trouble ignoring the fact that she won't fight for me, that she chose to quit. She once told me that it's always the same, that nobody cares until she's done. So how many others were there? How many times will she quit? How many times has things gotten hard and she just give up?

I played my role in this. I was never there for her emotionally. Being distant with her is making this hard for me because it's just more of the same. Where my faith comes into play, is that she will some how see our kids and the impact of her decisions on them. I have faith that she will one day see me for who I am and not what she believes. That I'm not like the others, that I never was. I have faith that she will open her eyes to what's inside her.

My uncertain reality is in how I'm handling things with the kids and my W. I don't blame their mom, but when pressured I don't hide the fact that it was her decision to leave. I don't know what they would understand and I don't want them to give her the impression that I'm peeing on her good name. I don't know what to say or how much to say. To my W I say even less, but keep my voice upbeat and positive - or try to.

My reality is that I'm having so much trouble letting go of my faith in my W. I want so bad to let go of her, but I don't know what's keeping me attached. If it's my heart, then why do I not want to be around her? Why do I not think about what she's doing or who with? Why do I dread seeing her and why am I happy she's moved out and taken almost everything? If it's my heart, why am I so eager to restore order in my life one room of my house at a time and yet I don't want her to know anything about me and what I'm doing?

If my heart is keeping me from detaching from her, then why do I know that if we didn't have kids together I would go out of my way to never see her again. Why am I not furious, but rather, indifferent. My reality is that every time I think about my life beyond a week at a time, I'm over come with faith in my soon to be XW. My reality is that I don't know how long it will take me to restore order in my house (financially), but I feel tied down by that outcome. I feel restless as though I'll never fully be released from whatever is holding me until I'm done with whatever it is that's holding me back.

What I also see is S12 becoming emotionally detached like me in his future relationships. I see S6 growing up trying to make his relationships work, but throwing in the towel because he doesn't know how to stand and fight.

My faith will not let me move on. My reality is that I can't let go of my faith in being the best person capable of helping me, my W and our kids. My reality is that I'm afraid to think of my life beyond 1 week at a time because I'm afraid/frustrated when my faith takes control of my thought process.

[AJM]

FWIW, I got the same "the kids will be fine" speech. They are not fine. They need help and guidance. They are looking to you for it and as a father you need to give it to them. You teach them through your actions and beliefs. You won't fool them , so find a way to be honest without bad-mouthing your ex. It's in the kids' best interest.

My uncertain reality is in how I'm handling things with the kids and my W. I don't blame their mom, but when pressured I don't hide the fact that it was her decision to leave. I don't know what they would understand and I don't want them to give her the impression that I'm peeing on her good name. I don't know what to say or how much to say. To my W I say even less, but keep my voice upbeat and positive - or try to.

It's not about her when this question comes up. You're not peeing on her name. You're telling the truth. It was her decision and you are abiding by it even if you don't agree with it. They already know but are looking to you for your take.

Why do I dread seeing her and why am I happy she's moved out and taken almost everything?

Um really? How long were you in limbo again? I know this one... I've been there and done that. I too felt guilty for being glad she was gone. Or rather, that I had a break. Nobody wants to live in that world for very long and you've been at it for quite some time. Don't feel guilty about it. It's not worth feeling guilty about. It was her decision and not one you wanted. You told her that, she knows it, and she did it anyway. So be it, right?

Why am I not furious, but rather, indifferent.

Be careful what you ask for Realistically, you will at some point feel the anger. It comes out in your posts; it's there just below the surface, but you don't seem to have allowed yourself to feel it. Yet.

What I also see is S12 becoming emotionally detached like me in his future relationships. I see S6 growing up trying to make his relationships work, but throwing in the towel because he doesn't know how to stand and fight.

It's too early to tell what your S will do or won't do. He is his own person that is influenced by you and your ex. But you'll be surprised to see that he'll figure out what he is about over time. At times, they favor one parent and then the other. It's part of growing up and how they figure out their personality. What you see now is a point in time coupled with tendancies and personality traits. The cake isn't finished yet though. Still being baked.

My faith will not let me move on. My reality is that I can't let go of my faith in being the best person capable of helping me, my W and our kids. My reality is that I'm afraid to think of my life beyond 1 week at a time because I'm afraid/frustrated when my faith takes control of my thought process.

What are you afraid of exactly? I'm not sure I followed that part. I can tell you that you have to let your w take her trip. I know you aren't ready to do that yet, but you do. I've been there and watched that train wreck, or rather one like it. You can only control you. You can only influence your kids. Your W has to figure herself out. I know you say you have faith in her. Do you though? Or do you feel like you need to be part of that process "just in case"? What happens if you're not there? Does your faith in what you can't see still exist? Does your W still do what she is going to do whether you see or not?

Just asking...

AJ

[RoofTop]

Your W has to figure herself out. I know you say you have faith in her. Do you though? Or do you feel like you need to be part of that process "just in case"? What happens if you're not there? Does your faith in what you can't see still exist? Does your W still do what she is going to do whether you see or not?

I don't know. It's what brings me here to the forums, but it's also what makes me go away for a few days so I can look for answers in me.

What I'm trying to figure out, is why I can't think of the future without my W and I. Where I'm coming from is that MLC is what it is. It's a growth process that affects two worlds. The MLC person is living an equally nightmarish existence except the non-MLC spouse has the advantage of learning about internal resourcefulness given the right amount and use of time.

How many of us can say with conviction that our MLC spouse saved us from ourselves, that we're better people for the experience? A lot of us I'm sure and not one of us wants to EVER do this again.

So what about the MLC spouse? Why should it be so different for them? We're not to blame for the journey, but we do play a role. So I would ask then, why shouldn't we play a role in helping them out of the tunnel? I can see where going dark offers the MLC spouse an opportunity to breath on their own and without interference. It may even give them pause to contemplate what they left. But how? Going dark isn't for everyone and I'm constantly wondering about my going dark on a woman that was already living in a relationship void of the level of emotional connection she "believes" she needed.

My faith maintains that years from now, my W and I will get through this and be together in the end. Reality tells me otherwise, so I'm constantly fighting against faith so I can live in my current reality one week at a time. I hate it, but I don't know any other way right now.

There are varying perspectives regarding MLC and I'm intrigued by those that claim to have gone through MLC and come back. They kinda sound 'evolved'. MLC tramples on a lot of lives, but so does alcoholism or drug abuse. MLC almost seems like a coming of age where they go back and relive the golden years through the eyes of an leaned adult, which makes them even more flamboyant than an actual teenager. They are on a crash course journey. Sadly, my faith wants me to be there when she crashes, if only to sit and listen to her. To let her know that no matter how bad it got, I didn't give up fighting for someone worth fighting for.

Reality is what everyone's been telling me since the beginning, that she's gone. So why can't I see what everyone else does?

If I think of my future I can't see reality. I think that the dreams are a way of getting me there. Even my dreams are telling me she's gone.

Alcoholics, drug addicts and MLC. They have to go alone or all we become are the enablers and/or the facilitators.

They say that the couple that survives impossible circumstances will be together forever and I don't believe in coincidences. I don't feel lonely even without my kids around so why do I think that I have to blow out my candle in the window if I'm ever going to be able to light it again? Inside I'm a hopeless romantic and always have been. Therein lies my personal torment. I've always been able to channel my emotions into creative means and now my life is about controlling everything down to my breathing and I think it's making me miserable.

Hmmm. More to sleep on.

[WenikiTiki]

I don't know if this helps or not, but somewhere on one of these threads someone wrote something to the effect of that if we all accepted reality there wouldn't be anyone in the psych wards.

I am trying to accept reality. And what you say about the MLC people being like alcoholics and drug addicts is a really interesting thought. I may have to sleep on that one myself!

[AJM]

(I wrote that about the psych wards; at least I was one person who did recently in case somebody else did too.)It was a related story overheard at the grocery. I think it fits in many cases, especially where we try to understand that gap between what we want and what is. At least, that's how I read it.

RT, is it not possible for you to detach and live your life and *still* be there later to listen to her if that's what she chooses? I think so. I wrestle with that. I once promised a lot. I was asked for less when it ended. But would it be a big deal to me to just "listen" if asked to do so?

You make your choices as they are needed. Not before. Controlling everything will eventually wear you out - it's why we suggest letting what will be, be. Accepting things for what they are and focusing on yourself vs. others. I.e. give to yourself what you would give to others (golden rule explained perhaps?)

AJ

[RoofTop]

WT - I would agree and I've been thinking a lot on that. My S is a scientist in her field and oddly enough it's science that turned her on to religion and belief in God. That's another story though...

It's hard to ignore faith, both religious and non-religious. I saw a metephore the other day for how I feel about all this:

"Gold must be fashioned through fire if it's to become precious and valuable."

The reference was to relationships, but it can apply to individuals too. The quote is a bit too cut and dry in that not all relationships are bad unless they experience hard times. I don't believe that, but I believe that coming of age is a process that affects people differently and maybe it's the the level of fire we have to work through that shapes us both and not just one person in a relationship. Case in point being MLC in that the severity of the experience dictates how both spouses will learn and grow. After all, I can't say I'd accomplish much in the face of a 1 month bout with MLC because it would be more like catching a cold and I'd have gained nothing of value within me. .....Thoughts are spinning so I'm stopping that train.

As for addicts and MLC, I'm aware that they share the common possibility that they both have potential to not ever recover. They may even recover to a point, but never truly heal the wounds from those that hung them out to dry.

So for now I'm day in, day out. Constantly questioning when I can stop holding onto faith in my W and put my faith in something else. In me - nah, I'll be okay in that department. Then again, it's hard to take my blinders off when I can't see them.

[RoofTop]

Finished finals and as I anticipated, just passing the one test wasn't enough to keep me from having to take the class again next semester. It was a very hard test and nobody scored higher than a 75%. Oh well, better luck next semester I suppose.

Yet it's this very attitude that I have that has me questioning, always questioning. I care enough to try hard on everything, which is more than I had ever amounted to in my prior life, but I accept the outcome and place one foot in front of the other in the direction of the next challenge.

Something else that got my noodle all bunched up was at the doctors office, my regular doctor and not the one that told me about my cancer diagnosis. Anywho, she asked about changes and I mentioned that my W moved out and I learned about my diagnosis soon after. My Dr about flipped out. I like her better than my therapist, she's fun. But she said some things that got me thinking. She said that when I hit the ground, and I will, she would be there for me ( about the cancer not marriage ). I told her I know I'm repressing some feelings, but haven't had much time to get down into them. She said some things that made me think she too has been through some of this before ( the marriage stuff ), but it's none of my business so I don't desire to ask about it. But I couldn't stop thinking - Why? Why should I hit the floor or be bummed or be sad or angry? Why can't I just be me?

I'm different today than I was pre-MLC, but I'm not that far off of who I was before in regards to living life in denial.

I haven't had any dreams of my W lately. Its been nice. I prayed and asked if I could get some help with the dreams stopping and so far, so good for now. I don't need to feel her anger in my sleep as I had been. Regardless, I've been thinking over the weekend, really trying hard to tap into why I'm angry with my W.

I know I'm worth fighting for and her choosing not to fight for me is not the source of my anger as I had been inclined to think. More and more it "seems" like it's the lack of trust in me that she has. I believe a person is bound by their word and that's a reflection of who they are. I take great pride in my honesty and/or my intentions. My W not believing me does frustrate me greatly. I'm getting a bit too close to initiating the paperwork for D. I'm getting tired of waiting. I wrote out a budget of all of my expenditures, named each item I'm aware of and even included copies of some bills. I'm even including the receipt of the work done on the car this weekend and how much I had withdrawn from my 401K to use to pay for it. I also added that I used some of that to pay two other bills and new shoes for the kids before school starts up. I did this because I know she thinks I'm sitting on piles of money because I make more than her and she's going to come at me about school shopping for the kids soon. I don't want to hear it. When I drop the kids off today, all of the papers I wrote up will be included with her mail.

At this point I don't care what she does with it. If she takes it to a lawyer, I don't care. It will stink, but maybe it would take a lawyer to get her to realize that one huge way to get more money from me would be to get rid of that $600 car payment of hers that I make every month. I'm discusted with how much of my life I wasted on believing that keeping up with the Jones's was what I was supposed to be doing.

I'm also frustrated that the EA/OM is 'always' coming to the rescue of my W whenever S12 tries to talk to her about his feelings and frustrations. I do hate that, but I can't do or say anything as i'm the bad guy and he's there for her best interests - as the two of them see it. Where my kids are involved, I'm not happy when I feel helpless and I don't like the anger. I know that what will be, will be when given the time needed. S12 badgers me about caring about his mom and believes I shouldn't. The fact of the matter is is that I don't care about her anymore and that angers me, but I can't tell him that. I can't tell my kids that I would be okay if I never saw or spoke to their mother again.

I don't know what she thinks anymore, but it sure feels like I'm less than dirt. Being 21 again isn't going to be so much fun when you have to grow up a second time.

Just ranting as I pursue my thoughts. I'm trying to write down my thoughts so I can view them and maybe expunge my mind and heart of these feelings. I'm just tired of all of this nonsense anymore. Just let me go already.........why can't I let go!

[AJM]

Hey RT. Sorry to hear about the test, but like you said, next semester..

Allow me to play along:
"Just let me go already" - is that her you're talking to? Just asking.

The anger is there. I see it. Perhaps you feel like you should feel more? If so, why?

I also see some realism and some other feelings there. Perhaps there are many feelings and you need to focus on just one for a while? I'm balancing this with the part where you tried for years already to make the marriage work. To make the family work. To keep the dream alive. Maybe you've felt most of it already or maybe just a bit tired right now?

I suspect because you have kids together, that you'll have to deal with her for a long time. That isn't pleasant as she'll want to lash out at you. Possibly. Everyone is different.

When you say you are angry about her not valuing your opinion any longer...I know how that feels. Someone you trusted doesn't care any longer. Like a switch went off from an outside perspective.

I don't like the anger either, but it does take time to work through it. Take the time to focus on as few emotions as you can and feel them. They'll be easier to feel and be dealt with one at a time.

Just some thoughts. Keep well!

AJ

[sleeper]

Hey Rooftop,

I see a lot of myself in your posts. I wasn't there for my X for a long time so I felt obligated to be there for her in her mlc. I had a lot of dreams in the beginning and respect dreams more now. I saw and feared the impact of D upon my kids and did everything I could to mitigate it's negative results.

You can't change the past. Being there for her now that she has OM does the opposite of what you probably hope, it enables their dysfunctional relationship. Think about it. She's going through a second adolesence. He's the fun filled boyfriend, you're the responsible daddy, paying her bills and there to catch her when she falls. Reminds me of a saying I once heard:

"Its the savior that gets crucified."

When the time comes she will crucify you for everything she can get. Talk to a L if you haven't already. Ask L about that $600 car payment. Judges often like to keep much as it already is and she will need that car "to transport the kids", right?

I believe dreams are our subconsciouses speaking aloud. I too dreamed much about X in the beginning. It's good you've chosen not to dream of her. Your mind probably needs a break from her even if only at night.

We do what we can for our kids. You sound like a great father. Unfortunately the children are taken along for the ride on the mlcer's too. I feared up recently when my kids voiced the time in "our apt" as one if the best of their lives. I knew at that moment I had accomplished my goal (5yrs post-bomb).

Take care of yourself, take care of your kids. Don't worry about her.

[AJM]

Hey Sleeper. Which city in the Great State of Confusion do you live near? I've been through that state a few times and just wondering...

AJ