OMG, I was just thinking I am way too tired (had an 11 hour day working) to be able to give and then I thought I have to comment and then you say Brit do you have insight haha?
Quote:
in that moment when he called me i was overtaken by the fact that he and s, and me and friend were in the same place but not together. i was so sure he didn't want to hang out with us, that when i finished paying, i walked off without even glancing at him again.
you weren't worrying about him feeling rejected like you said, you felt rejected when he said he didn't want to order with you. Maybe he though S would find him, maybe he thought it would be rude.
Quote:
on the other hand if i had taken the step to walk up to him and say - we'll be out on the terrace - would it have been an opportunity to hang out together with friends and relax - first time during this sitch. or better that it went the way it did and he saw that i was going on with my stuff as i had planned, regardless of where he was at...
brit - can't help thinking that you may have some insights on this.
here's what's helped me in these "ditches" Remember when we were talking about our H's sometimes acting like martyrs and denying themselves time with us or whatever....I think we do that sometimes deny ourselves opportunities because we're worried it's pursuit.
our sitches are in these weird limbo phases where our H's have GFs, but are still acting very friendly with us. What's helped me after Cheryl advised me to be fun, friendly, flirty, loving, etc. was to think how would I act with a friend?
If you had run into any other friend in that restaurant and said hey do you want to order with us and they said no that's fine...you would have turned around and said we'll be out on the terrace or at the very least "so funny to run into you hear, have a good dinner" something...you wouldn't have walked off. So don't worry that you have to "show him what it's like to be separated" I think you're in a different place.
I found that when I stopped acting like a timid victim who can't act friendly towards him because I'm pursuing than he returned the behaviour over and over again. My DB coach told me to stop worrying so much, just be bright and breezy!
Quote:
so i'm in this funny spot. here i am making goals where i want h to ask me to join them, but when he does now i don't want to go. wtf is up with me?
So, my DB coach told me it was simple our job is to make them feel good around us. Yes this might seem as if you're game playing or denying your inside feelings...but I promise you if you decide to put aside anything about H that annoys you (him calling and asking for sunscreen...oh Zig he just really really wants you around...in that new swimsuit ) if you put aside that stuff then you will have fun...because you're saying I'm going to just concentrate on having fun with H and S and enjoying this time and if you concentrate on that you'll shift the dynamic and you will have because he'll start having fun it's contagious.
When H asked me along for S's birthday dinner do you know I for a split second almost said no, because I thought it's S's birthday I don't want to crash but then I remembered what Cheryl said when he volunteers to do something or asks me somewhere and I say no then he feels like he failed or did something wrong. Remember not too long ago you were practically begging him to play frisbee with you and S, now he invites you somewhere and you say no. I'm not giving you a 2 x4 I'm just saying GO, you'll be glad you did.
now, about the comment with H and his response, etc. This is something I've observed in my own sitch. When I was a WAW, there were moments when I would miss H, I'd text, we'd have a good interaction and I'd invite him over. When he arrived I was already feeling apprehensive, because after all I'd ended our M. Then it was like I'd look for something to confirm he's the same old H, and we still don't get along. I remember once we had an explosive argument, he left without eating dinner, then slept for 12 hours and apologised saying he was really upset that it happened like that because he'd really been looking forward to it. I didn't realise what I was doing until I see it in other people's threads....
However it happens on the flip side. The more H is around, the more subconsciously you start to think that things are turning slightly, you're getting closer or whatever, and fear because it's a new territory creeps in and I think that's what's throwing you off kilter. I found myself getting angry and resentful of H. Oh it would be much easier to be angry and resentful but here they are being nice and fun. Then when he leaves on a good note like the other night I find myself feeling a bit shakey because once again I don't know how I feel or what the hell is going on. it's a new kind of limbo.....but we're all walking this tightwire you just have to rebalance.
Try weighing up your reactions to him as if you were reacting to a dear friend...would you have gone swimming or started tidying up? would you have responded the same way on the phone? I find if I look at thru that filter it makes it less heavy and less complicated.
I also think (at least with myself) it's a constant battle in giving them kindness, compassion, and friendship because we want to and then sometimes feeling that there's only a certain level that they deserve and why should I be acting this way.
When a sitch like the one in the restaurant or the pool happens try looking back and asking yourself what would have been the best possible outcome? having family dinner together, having pool time together? How could my actions have made that happen? And the biggest one are my actions taking me closer to my goal?
i don't know if you;re still up to see this tonight - but you'll be happy to know that i did go!!
i did have mixed feelings - but i saw how my old pattern arose - and i realized that the discomfort i was feeling was that i had to break that pattern. that though i was so upset at how he had treated s, and my old way was to withdraw - i had to fight it and say, no, i can still go there and be okay with h.
the in-laws were there, and a couple of other kids and one of their dad's. i sort of stayed around the kids at the other end, and h made his way over. he made a point of letting me know he was sorry he had missed my call, and i said casually that oh, i finished what i had planned to do and decided to join them.
later i was on the raft - looking very nice, haha, and he came over to that end of the pool and lay on one of the chairs for quite while, chatting with me.
he's going to a wedding at 5 this evening and s is staying with his parents for the night. he went on about how he didn't really want to go but it was going to be fun and he was going to go.
i was hoping for an invite - but of course that would have been to much to ask for!
i didn't stay long and got in the shower as he was getting ready to leave. i'm back now and glad i went
everything you wrote helped click it back into place. you articulated everything i was feeling. thank you
i'm so grateful that you are one step ahead of me in this process and can see so clearly and pick up what is going on.
even more thankful that despite what a long day you had - you took the time to write all that out.
i'm still a bit quaky so off to do my meditation that always gets me grounded again, and back to organizing my surroundings
thanks so much zig
ps: i don't suppose i could ask him if i could join himm this evening, could i?????
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
thanks RoRo - i did relax at the pool and that was nice.
i'm not sure how i feel right now - a lot of mixed feelings and wants and i know i need to take the time to step back and see where i am at.
part of what is going on is that i feel i don't even want to be around h - at times i want to be with him really bad, and then at times i don't want him in my life at all.
yucky unexpected feelings today - tomorrow is another day...
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
here's what's helped me in these "ditches" Remember when we were talking about our H's sometimes acting like martyrs and denying themselves time with us or whatever....I think we do that sometimes deny ourselves opportunities because we're worried it's pursuit.
our sitches are in these weird limbo phases where our H's have GFs, but are still acting very friendly with us. What's helped me after Cheryl advised me to be fun, friendly, flirty, loving, etc. was to think how would I act with a friend?
If you had run into any other friend in that restaurant and said hey do you want to order with us and they said no that's fine...you would have turned around and said we'll be out on the terrace or at the very least "so funny to run into you hear, have a good dinner" something...you wouldn't have walked off. So don't worry that you have to "show him what it's like to be separated" I think you're in a different place.
This is a really important message IMHO for all newbies and regulars, here. I still consider myself "just out of LRT", having decided I was ready about three months ago.
LRT is for us. It helps us get our feet under us and can help us detach to a point that LRT is no longer necessary...
once again, everyone now... LRT is temporary
Once we are ready to re-engage, and we practice not reacting and having no expectations... then we can be friends with these people, just like we are with our "other" friends.
If they feel we are pursuing, they will let us know by distancing themselves. Take note when they distance. What happened just before they distanced. What can we do different so they don't feel like they are getting pursuit pressure?
And, we don't have to tie ourselves in a knot over what happened, because that's the way it is...
If I ask a friend to do something and they say no... I might ask them again at a later date... and if they say no... then I might consider something is up and give them a little space and time... and then re-engage them some time in the future when things might be better for them...
UNLESS we are LRT... we should not be worrying about whether something is pursuit...
If we have expectations and therefore are needy, clingy, emotional, "on the roller coaster" and actively pursuing... Then we should probably go LRT...
The whole idea of showing someone what it's like to be separated or divorced... that could be coming from a place of fear, pain, and anger...
rather... come from a positive, loving place...
show them what it's like to be a friend with you... how freakin' awesome it would be for them to be friends with such a great person, like yourself!
Yeah zig, you're gonna feel a little "off" because you've just done something that isn't "pattern". Pattern is easy. Different... not so much... it's a lot like doing a new task at work. It takes effort and wears us out, until it becomes a habit.
As far as asking your H to tag along to the wedding... well, I know this response is a little late, so you will have already made your choice...
Asking him to tag along might be a bit of a stretch. When the two of you are FOR SURE not uncomfortable around each other, that might be appropriate...
Right now, the best you might have done would be to say,
"ooo, a wedding. Nice. I'm due for a bit of crazy fun, these days."
or
"ooo, a wedding... Nice... I've been looking for an opportunity to wear this little number I have for such an occasion..."
You aren't asking, but you are certainly putting out your possible availability. He can't not pick up that hint. And if he does not ask, no worries... He's either dumb as a stump like me... or he's not ready to invite you along at this time...
No expectations. And keep some handy "suggestions" in your pocket for moments like that. As you move along, those types of thoughts will be quicker to mind...
When my W and I first met, I had no interest in her in any way. Just not even a thought. When that idea was brought forward to me, I didn't think that she was someone I wanted to be with... as time went by and we started doing things together... things just got more and more intimate... I basically visited one day and never moved out...
Right now... your H is very likely just past the "never thought about it" stage and the "not sure if I like her, that way" stage...
He might finally realize and admit how much he wants you... eventually...
zig it sounds like you were definitely drawing H to you today at the pool, that's good. keep radiating your amazing self, it does seem to be working. take the time you need for you whenever you're feeling like you don't want to be around him - if you don't want to be around him, it will probably come across that way to him. i definitely understand that feeling. that's the time when you can decline invitations from him if necessary (or make your GAL plans for that time!).
this has been really interesting to read.
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
The whole idea of showing someone what it's like to be separated or divorced... that could be coming from a place of fear, pain, and anger...
rather... come from a positive, loving place...
show them what it's like to be a friend with you... how freakin' awesome it would be for them to be friends with such a great person, like yourself!
KD I think what you are saying makes perfect sense in zig's situation, where there's no imminent D. not to threadjack but I'd be curious on your perspective on this idea for those of us whose WAS's goal is to be best friends but not M, and when acting like friends as you suggest makes the WAS think that getting a D is hunky dory with everyone and they are utterly blind to what a D actually means.
okay - so just to clarify: wires crossed here - it absolutely did not occur to me even for a second that i should show h what it was like to feel separated.
I was the one who was feeling what it was like - it freaked ME out. it was a strange couple of days - and i didn't know why the hell this was happening. heck, that very morning he ate breakfast with us - first time since the BD - he was at my house having a beer right before we landed up there separately - it was too much too soon? i don't know
i don't know why i didn't casually go up to him and say something. i i was so hyper aware of what i was faced with that i think i shut down a bit. by the time i finished paying and turned to follow friend who had already walked off, i know it's hard to believe but i actually forgot that h was standing there.
i actually wasn't feeling all that rejected when he said no - i was thinking - oh bummer, been waiting days to go out with friend and now i could be giving up my girl's night, i want my girl's night!!
at the same time, there was that old pattern surfacing where i was concerned that i have to give up myself and let the girl's night go because they were there and i should let them come join us. i said to friend that you know, i'm not going to go up and ask him - he can come himself if he wants to - in other words, let him initiate. and then at the same time i was thinking that if i go back and tell him they are welcome to join us, he'll see me as being pushy.
too many thoughts all at the same time!!!!
well, it sort of back-fired on both of us - i didn't realize that he didn't know there was a terrace and he didn't realize that i couldn't hear my phone!!
KD - you're right about why i feel off.
as i drove over to swim - i found myself thinking - yes this discomfort is me breaking a pattern (the old pattern of 'when i see you do something that is hurtful to s, i don't want to be around you' and i relished that i was on my way, feeling the discomfort and working through it so that i could do it differently.
you'll be glad to know i didn't ask to tag along, and probably amused to hear that while we were talking about it at the pool - i just said oh what fun, it's in a barn that sounds great - it wasn't overt - quite understated and i was really ok with him not asking. i hardly expect him at this point to be asking me to come along - that would be him putting it out there really big!
back to the restaurant thing - i didn't expect him to want to sit with us - the look on his face when i turned around was hard to read, but it was not relaxed! at the time, i read it as -'this is f'ed up" and now today i wonder if it was more as brit pointed out 'oh [censored], will she want to sit with us?" kind of look.
i talked to my sweet friend who was with them today and she said that h seemed to definitely want to sit with us..
here's the weird weird thing - i've been so sure that he doesn't want to be around me at all, that i think i act to suit that because i think that's what he wants. then stuff like this happens and i get really confused. i guess i'm projecting what I would do and want if i told someone i didn't want to be with them.
i read what you wrote at the end - evil grin!!!!!!!
i also read the post before this one, and i'm in the OPPOSITE place from what you are describing. and we practice not reacting and having no expectations...
i wasn't reacting to him - i was reacting to my own feelings that sort of overwhelmed me at the time - . and the last thing i had was expectations. so i was almost shocked that he had tried to call me - that's how little expectations i had!!
i think as i write all this - i'm beginning to realize that i am not used to really dealing with my OWN feelings about this sitch. for so long i have focused hard on acting as if and keeping myself in a good place and working through my own crap, that yesterday what disturbed me the most was being unexpectedly faced with an actual situation outside of the home which showed clearly that we were separated. i found myself trying to protect s - crazy as it sounds. he hadn't seen me yet, and i thought that if h didn't want to sit with us - he was free to choose if s hadn't seen us, but once s saw us he would be obliged to
i'm not really sure what is going on with me today - this whole thing is screwing with my head big time. just writing all this out is making me more and more upset, and i can't figure out why
but thanks everyone for all your input - i need to read through these posts again -
hugs zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
) if you put aside that stuff then you will have fun...because you're saying I'm going to just concentrate on having fun with H and S and enjoying this time and if you concentrate on that you'll shift the dynamic and you will have because he'll start having fun it's contagious. 