New to separation. Am I doing the right things?

[roughenough]

Thanks Tinman! Who cares about the spelling, it’s the input that matters most. I appreciate it.

The house thing is a difficult choice. I am no expert on the subject but here’s what I’ve learned about the options.

Short sale would be an utter headache. The house needs a fair amount of work, I doubt it would pass an inspection. Getting both lenders to agree and approve seems daunting!!!

Deed in Lew is another option but if the bank sells the house for 200K and we owe 290K then we would be issued a 1099 and be required to pay a tax on the difference, roughly 90K.

Foreclosure is the other option. If we go down this route I was told they can come after us for the difference between what we owe on the house and sale price. No option seems that great. I might try and hold on to the house but I really need to weigh everything out and I appreciate your insight.

On a side note, I told my W I might need to get a roommate. I didn’t even think of what sex the roommate would be. Below is a recent email from W. It’s interesting that she left me and now she wants to decide who I live with and where I live. Does she really think she can hold this much power now that we are separated. I really don’t want us to get bitter!!!! I think you used a similar term, sour.


“Roommate - well if the roommate was female ahhhh no... so that leaves your mom or a male. I would need to feel very comfortable with that person so that the kids could continue to come and have their time with you.”

[Tinman]

Roughenough, It is so much easier to give advice that to take it, at least that is how it is working out for me:-)

I think you should take a step back and think from your W point of view. I don't blame her for her concern with the roommate. My EW made some of the same comments. She was going to keep the house despite me and was going to get a roommate to try and keep up with the payments. I was very concerned. You really don't know what kind of person you are going to get as a renter and these are people who will have access to you and your kids.

The other thing she has a right to be concerned about is that her name is attached to that house and until you either refinance it or short sell it she will be tied to it. Unless it is in your name only.
I am a licensed realtor and a licensed home inspector. Not saying I know all the ins and outs of your situations or what the laws are in your state but you need to get a hold of a realtor that specializes in short sales or a lawyer that deals in real-estate law.
If I remember right there was a federal plan in place that forgave the difference for tax purposes but it ends at the end of the year. So if you were able to get it done sooner than later you might be safe.

If you have to have a roommate to afford the house then as hard as it is to hear you need to let it go. It will drive a wedge between you and your W. Not to mention you are starting out your new life (with or without W) in a huge hole.

The other thing is that in a short sale the buyer knows they are getting a deal and that along with that deal comes repairs. So not sure I would worry too much about it.

One other thing is that if you let it go to foreclosure or turn it back over to bank there is something that they sometimes do “cash for keys” . Sometimes the bank or the buyer will offer you a few thousand to get started in a new place. You can talk to your bank about it. Some banks are offering people this that are going into foreclosure and what they are finding is that it is cheaper to pay home owner few thousand to turn over keys (requires that you do a final walk with bank so they can verify home has not been damaged) that it costs them when home owner walks away from home and it sits empty and ends up getting vandalized.

Just food for thought. May not be what you want to hear.

[roughenough]

It’s a great perspective, I would call it a reality check for me. I didn’t come to this board ONLY for support. I want to hear all different views, such as yours. My goal isn’t to have people necessarily agree with me. The take away I got from your posts is it’s important for me to be flexible, understand her concern about roommates, maybe not be so attached to the house, etc…BTW,she’s also on the loan. Great points of view that I need to let sink in.

[Accuray]

Hi Roughenough,

Try not to "preview" your changes for W -- that is going to make her angry, because at this point it's all talk. Just do it and let her observe the results. You really should not talk about your 180's at all, either the ones you've done, or the ones you're going to do. Let them speak for themselves. You will be nervous she won't notice, but she will. She may not notice them one at a time, but eventually she'll have a lightbulb go off that a whole lot is now different.

WRT the house, I believe you should go to the financial counselor with W. One of her historic complaints was that she didn't feel "safe" with you financially. Maybe you reassured her that you had it covered or you had everything figured out. Now, she doesn't trust you financially. If you go to the counselor with a good attitude, listen to what the person has to say, ask good questions, etc. and honestly engage, that may be a good 180 for you as well.

I don't believe W wants to do anything with the house to try to spite you. I think she's worried about it. I would try to work with her on it, and if the way she wants to work is starting with a counselor, do it. You don't have to agree to anything, just go and listen and ask questions.

WRT the roommate, there are many ways to do that. You can use AirBnB and just rent a bedroom on a temporary basis -- weeks at a time for instance. When W says she doesn't want you to have a female roommate, I'm sure she's not thinking about you finding a 70 year old woman to move in. She's thinking you'd move someone in who you would want to date, and in that context she is right that it wouldn't be good for the kids, it would be confusing to them. For the kids sake, you should probably seek a roommate who would not appear as a "wife replacement candidate".

You may want to get some books on separation with kids or talk to a family therapist. They can advise you how best to handle the situation and what to stay away from.

In terms of W being able to "tell you what to do" while separated, you really don't have any type of agreement there. One thing you could do is write up a separation agreement stipulating how you will handle things between you -- how will you handle custody, will each of you date other people during this time, etc. etc. Put it on the table. If you want to go that route, that's something YOU could initiate with a counselor. I wouldn't try to do that one-on-one.

I will echo Tinman's advice, I would definitely see a lawyer about your options on the house, that would be money very well spent.

Accuray

[roughenough]

Great advise. I’ve just been so overwhelmed recently because there’s so many changes going on. IT’S VERY STRESSFUL! I also haven’t seen my kids in about 5 days and I miss them so much!!!!

As I previously mentioned, W is making an appointment for us to see a counselor that we’ve worked with before, he’s a good counselor. It will mainly be to discuss financial stuff. As suggested, I will go into it with a good attitude, participate, listen, etc…

If I do get a roommate, I will make sure that it’s someone my W is comfortable with. I was also advised to start getting receipts from W when I make my child support payments. I will be talking to her about needing a receipt within the next day or two. I don’t know if that will sit well with her but I think it’s important.

I am interviewing for a second job later today. If I get the job I will be working an additional 20 plus hours a week. Working the additional hours will be a big adjustment for me but I need the income.

[Accuray]

Good for you roughenough, the extra money and seeing the counselor are the types of things that will matter.

When you say it will be "mainly to discuss financial stuff", what else to you anticipate discussing? If you plan to do some marriage counseling I would advise against it. I would keep this meeting "all business" quite frankly. She knows how you feel, she doesn't want to hear it again.

WRT the child support receipts, why are you making specific child support payments? Is that an informal agreement you made with W, or is there a formal agreement in place?

The point is, if you're going to have a discussion about receipts, you might want to have a larger discussion about all elements of your separation, so that you don't have to talk to her one by one about little issues. That's the kind of thing you could do with a marriage counselor. For help there, check out the book "Controlled Separation". You can get it on Kindle, it's a quick read and you can just skim a lot of it. In any case, it will give you things to think about.

When it comes to unpleasant topics that NEED to be discussed like child support payments and receipts, it's often best to cut once and cut deep rather than die by a thousand nicks if you know what I mean -- get in there and get it over with, then move on and try to get things upbeat again.

Accuray

[roughenough]

I was telling a friend of mine recently how hard it was for me to make all these decisions. I’ve always been fairly decisive. I am not the kind of person that will go look at a TV 10 times before I purchase. (In other words, I am good at making up my mind). But not right now! Every decision seems painstaking. Who knows, it’s probably because I am stressed and because I care. My friend also told me how much I am trying and if things don’t work out with W, it’s not due to a lack of effort.

I am glad I received Accurays advice. Knowing me, I would have asked my wife for a receipt today. I am going to wrap it all in one and bring it up in the counseling session on Monday.

The “Preview” comment is great. It’s just so easy to want to spit them out of my mouth. My 180’s are goals of mine. I need to remember to not mention anything to W right now about my goals. In my mind, if I avoid mentioning goals, that’s what will help me avoid bringing up 180’s, if that makes sense.

Yes, I want to get things upbeat again. The last week has been far from upbeat for both W and I. It was a great question about what else will be discussed in the counseling session. This is really good stuff so I am prepared.

Ok, let’s see if I am listening and learning. I am planning on going to the session with a smile on my face. I will ask questions, listen and I will work on keeping it business like. I think it’s good to keep the entire session finance/kids related. I will remain strong and confident and I WILL MAKE SURE TO AVOID RELATIONSHIP TALK. If she brings it up, that’s fine. I will give short and simple answers and leave it at that. I think it’s a very dangerous road to go down and it’s amazing how even a small R talk can cause big trouble. I haven’t had an issue with it anytime recently but I’ve learned about the “dangers” from everything I’ve read on this board. Am I on the right track here?

Note to self:

I am hoping for the best but I have no expectations. I will always be able to one day tell my kids with every ounce of confidence that I fought like no other for our marriage!!!!! In my mind, that’s a very powerful statement and I should be proud of myself for what I am doing.


Me(M):38
W:43
Together: 14 Married: 11
D: 4 S:8
W wanted separation 5/5/12
Stopped living together 5/5/12
Currently in DB stage

“Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude”.
Thomas Jefferson

[Accuray]

Yep, that's right where you want to be roughenough, perfect IMO. If you can, take a look at "Controlled Separation" before you get in there. Maybe they have it at the library. If you plan on talking about the kids, that book might have some things to think about. I'm sure W will appreciate it if you are prepared.

Accuray

[Accuray]

The book is called "Should I Stay or Should I Go? How Controlled Separation (CS) Can Save Your Marriage"

The headlines on the cover say "Sample Controlled Separation Agreements" and "Advice about Making Sane Marriage vs. Divorce Decisions"

[reachingHigher]

re, you are getting so much good advice. I just wanted to tell you I really feel for you with the VERY STRESSFUL. and to have to work so many more hours a week!

Yet, you are very positive and goal-oriented. I really liked this:

I will always be able to one day tell my kids with every ounce of confidence that I fought like no other for our marriage!!!!! In my mind, that’s a very powerful statement and I should be proud of myself for what I am doing.